The Leica SL3 - A Review by Jonathan Slack

[LocalHero1953]

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40 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I don't think there is going to be an S version again. the sensors are good in high iso, and the resolution can be changed in camera

I would be surprised if that was the case; my first thought yesterday was that this SL3 makes a SL3-S more likely, not less. Video especially was a big beneficiary of the SL2-S, and could be here. Even if they can introduce full frame 4k and 8k by firmware, they can't reduce rolling shutter etc with the present sensor.

While there's nothing wrong in principle with cropped 4k or 8k, it's annoying to have to keep rethinking your focal lengths as you switch between full frame and crop.

In my limited video usage, I don't need video much above 30fps, and most of my output is just FHD/2k, but cropping 4k & 8k is handy for close-up cuts in post. And never underestimate the noisy demand from the spec monsters who want 120fps 8k Prores or raw.

 

Edit. The SL2-S was launched about a year after the SL2......

Edited March 8, 2024 by LocalHero1953

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[jonoslack]

8 hours ago, SrMi said:

I cannot replicate that. Did you notice that you need to hold the power button for only about 1.5 sec to initiate shutdown? 

I wasn't really clear enough - you only need to hold it for maybe less than that (1 second to distinguish from quick off) but then I counted 6 seconds until the top LCD turned off.

best

[jonoslack]

10 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Camera in hand. Picked mine up a couple of hour ago. Just set up thoughts for now.

Things I like:

* Camera *feels* lighter and smaller even though the numbers suggest I should feel little. Improved balance. That's what happens when the support is moved closer to the centre of gravity.

* Startup is virtually instant with fw 1.1.

* Play button is where it should be.

* Flip screen

* Familiar to SL2 although there's a few annoyances (see below)

* Extra dial (but not ready yet... see below).

* Long tough of the quick menu icons to set. (again. see below).

* IQ is STELLAR. Absolutely fantastic. LR already has SL3 profiles....

* Quick dirty test says IBIS is about the same. I still think it's better than my A7R5 (regardless of the *specs*). Not as good as my X2D...

Neutral:

* Shutter. Louder but still reasonably quiet. I imagine wedding shooters will not like it because it's a sharper sound. My mostly retired arse doesn't care. But I get it if you hate it because the SL2 was beautiful.

* AFC. It's the same as the S5II and Q3. So, fine but really a small upgrade from the mature SL2 firmware and a big step behind my Sony's (A1 and A7R5). Fine for what I need but I'm keeping my A1.

* No internal memory. Cfe works fine and I already have them but it's a cost for most.

* Shut down is 2 seconds. I might grow to hate this. Or not.

* The new *font* and menus. They're fine. So was the ones before I don't see why so much press time was spent building them up.

* Video: Not my strong point but I'd probably use an S5II.......

Dislike:

* They don't allow customisation of the rear dial click. So it's only a mode dial for now. HATE this as I use it for ISO on my SL2 and other systems. Mode in this position is a huge waste of space since you can have the same function on the new quick menu.

* New left dial has only three options and they all suck. ISO, aperture (manual mode) and ev comp. And you can't reach the dial comfortably with the camera at the eye. Stupid and pointless. I have it set to ISo because of the other daft decision. Hope they fix the above and add things like drive mode or focusing options etc.

* Auto ISO and ISO are separated on the new dial. Hate this. To switch you need to twist the left dial and then the front dial and then back to the left dial to change the actual ISO. No. it's just as bad as it sounds. ISO works OK here on the M because it's a considered camera. It's crap on the SL3 because it's a dynamic camera.

* Not enough options in the quick menu options. 8 icons and only 11 choices? Really?

* 4FPS in 14bit is lame. Is the L2 processor from a Commodore 64 or something?

* No high res shot. But hey, Leica! If you're going to do it like Fuji and Sony, don't bother. Either in camera like the SL2 or nothing.

* No EFCS!. Jaaaeeeessssuuuussss! How frigging hard is it?

They can fix 90% of this with fw. And that annoys me because they already should have. This thing has been in test for 6 months and I worked this out in an hour. Leica! You need some more impartial and diversly experienced photographers to test these things. It's almost like you want to make it easy for your haters to lay into you.

In a few updates this will be a smashing camera. For now, it's a C+ at best.

Gordon

Hi There Gordon

your response sounds exactly like everyone's 6 months ago in the test forum after an hour with the camera (with much more grumpiness about the video). Almost all the people were professional and very engaged. Some of your points are good (you'll have seen that I'm not happy with all of it). but quite a lot of them are just a function of the fact that you haven't got used to it yet.

Your point about the quick menu is a case in point - 8 icons makes it much easier to manage than the 12 in the SL2, but the fact that you can tailor what's there and save it to different user presets for different situations works really well . . . . when you've got used to it.

Be grumpy by all means (I'm quite grumpy too) - but your remarks about the testers are a bit uncalled for - I worked with these guys and they WERE impartial, diversely experienced and professional.

all the best

[jonoslack]

7 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

Many thanks for your thoughts. In terms of image quality that you think is stellar, how close / far do you anticipate the SL3 will be against your X2D in terms of image quality for very large prints, say, 45-50” wide?

Hi Jon

Well - big prints with the SL3 are great - but I can't comment on the X2D as I've never even touched one! The colour from it looks great, and it has more real estate.. . . . 

best

Jono

[SrMi]

6 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

1. Holding a button for 2 seconds isn't ideal if you like to turn the camera off between shots. And no, I'm not keen on sleep. I often shoot with my camera over my shoulder. Bumping the shutter button is inevitable and the Sl3 battery life is poor. But it's early days. And no. It's not 5 seconds on my camera. Shutdown takes a 2 second push not 5.

Per the instructions, you need to hold it for only 1.5 seconds. Jono and I observe that it can be held even shorter. Compare this to X2D's one-second holding to turn it off. I have more experience with X2D, and its way of putting the camera to sleep or shutting it off works fine for me, but SL3 is much quicker to start up.

[jonoslack]

6 hours ago, Qwertynm said:

Thanks for the writeup. Many aspects of the camera to cover there. I wish you would've gone a bit more in depth on the Autofocus comparison against the Sony A7RV and A1. You say, the Sonys are still better. In terms of what exactly? The SL3 has the Maestro IV processor so does the Q3. Do you think with better algorithms the AF can and will be improved? I have the Q3 and comparing to my Canon R5 the Face and Eye AF is still worlds apart. I wish Leica will improve on this front in future firmware updates for SL3 and Q3 users and Leicas own sake.

Hi there

I was mostly using tracking and the animal detect - and the A1 at least was better at both (faster anyway) I didn't spend long enough with the A7R V to do a very close comparison.

My instinct is that they can improve the algorithms in the future - a first step with Phase detect, although of course they aren't going to change the shot to shot times much. 

[SrMi]

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6 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

2. Sony don't drop to 12 bit anywhere near that with the A7R5 or A1. And the SL3 tops out at 5fps in 12 bit if you want ANY AF at all. Cameras from 2005 beat that, handily. It's not good enough.

The a7r5 drops to 12-bit when continuously shooting with (lossy) compressed raw (any fps, according to the manual). With lossless compressed or uncompressed, the max rate is 7fps (DPR link), which is not a big difference from SL3's 5fps.

[pf4eva]

What a shame that SL series now becoming a Panasonic in a different skin...

[SrMi]

16 minutes ago, pf4eva said:

What a shame that SL series now becoming a Panasonic in a different skin...

I used to have an S1R, and now I have a G9 II. SL3 is nothing like a Lumix camera.

[BernardC]

5 hours ago, keeping_a_balance said:

Does anyone know if eventual manual focus assists like we have seen in the Nikon Zf (eye recognition punch in when using manual lenses) could eventually be available via eventual firmware or is this a hardware issue?

A lot of users have mentioned that the SL3 does a similar thing, namely that face/eye recognition works in manual focus, and you can punch-in to the recognized area. I haven't held the SL3 yet, and I think it would be annoying (can it be turned off?), but it seems to be there.

[Photoworks]

19 minutes ago, pf4eva said:

What a shame that SL series now becoming a Panasonic in a different skin...

No way, the only part they share is the L-mount, and some other bits, but experience shooting is still TOP on the leica

[Photoworks]

1 minute ago, BernardC said:

A lot of users have mentioned that the SL3 does a similar thing, namely that face/eye recognition works in manual focus, and you can punch-in to the recognized area. I haven't held the SL3 yet, and I think it would be annoying (can it be turned off?), but it seems to be there.

If you have AF to face detect on, you will see the boxes, but they don't do anything.

for M lenses it would be best to use the field selector box so that you know where you are punching in

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

Shutter shock elimination is the main benefit of EFCS. There is also a reduced shutter lag. What else?

Much quieter shutter operation (fewer clicks + rear curtain is quieter).

Leica is unlikely to incorporate EFCS because of the wide aperture bokeh artifact issue at high shutter speeds. To avoid the issues, they'd need to have the more complicated firmware option for shutter type, which would be an auto shutter type option that automatically switches to mechanical at higher shutter speeds.

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, jonoslack said:

Hi There Gordon

your response sounds exactly like everyone's 6 months ago in the test forum after an hour with the camera (with much more grumpiness about the video). Almost all the people were professional and very engaged. Some of your points are good (you'll have seen that I'm not happy with all of it). but quite a lot of them are just a function of the fact that you haven't got used to it yet.

Your point about the quick menu is a case in point - 8 icons makes it much easier to manage than the 12 in the SL2, but the fact that you can tailor what's there and save it to different user presets for different situations works really well . . . . when you've got used to it.

Be grumpy by all means (I'm quite grumpy too) - but your remarks about the testers are a bit uncalled for - I worked with these guys and they WERE impartial, diversely experienced and professional.

all the best

I found Gordon's one-day "review" unnecessarily angry and unhelpful. That is atypical for his posts.

[Geoff C. Bassett]

2 hours ago, Photoworks said:

I don't think there is going to be an S version again. the sensors are good in high iso, and the resolution can be changed in camera

I disagree, an SL3s can offer better video and improved FPS for sports shooting. 

[SrMi]

26 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Much quieter shutter operation (fewer clicks + rear curtain is quieter).

I do not notice much difference with Nikon and Sony cameras, but that may be my hearing issue. M11 could benefit from EFCS in that aspect, but M11 has a different type of shutter.

[Chaemono]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb SrMi:

I found Gordon's one-day "review" unnecessarily angry and unhelpful. That is atypical for his posts.

It made me want the camera more. 

[hdmesa]

43 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I do not notice much difference with Nikon and Sony cameras, but that may be my hearing issue. M11 could benefit from EFCS in that aspect, but M11 has a different type of shutter.

Nikon/Sony/Canon have some very well-dampened shutters. The main difference to me regarding the mechanical shutter is it can sound like two exposures are being taken with a single shot if you're used to the EFCS shutter. This was something some M11 users weren't fond of because Leica added off-sensor metering in rangefinder mode; but, it works just like other mirrorless cameras in mechanical shutter mode only louder.

Edited March 8, 2024 by hdmesa

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[Jeff S]

50 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I found Gordon's one-day "review" unnecessarily angry and unhelpful. That is atypical for his posts.

But you clicked on ‘like’. Masochist?

Jeff

[SrMi]

2 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Nikon/Sony/Canon have some very well-dampened shutters. The main difference to me regarding the mechanical shutter is it can sound like two exposures are being taken with a single shot if you're used to the EFCS shutter. This was something some M11 users weren't fond of since Leica added off-sensor metering in rangefinder mode; but, it works just like other mirrorless cameras only louder.

As I wrote, M11's shutter is an outlier as its shutter was not designed for live view.