It's March 6th. Tomorrow, the SL2 will be useless, outdated garbage...

[scott kirkpatrick]

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4 hours ago, trickness said:

But: will those extra megapixels make our pictures better?

 

Again, I don't think the increased number of pixels is the big factor.  I know from my M11s that the later sensor is much cleaner at medium to high ISO, so I'd like to shift over to it.

[Stevejack]

26 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Again, I don't think the increased number of pixels is the big factor.  I know from my M11s that the later sensor is much cleaner at medium to high ISO, so I'd like to shift over to it.

Yeah I never understood the hate for high megapixel full frame sensors. More information in a digital file is usually a good thing, though it does mean that the starting point for the image is often further away from the desired end result than with say a 24mp image with less dynamic range. 

The M10 for example gives me files straight out of camera that are usually closer to what I want than the M11, but I like that the M11 has more information to work with. Whether I throw most of that information away during editing is a decision I get to make, the limitations of the camera isn't making that decision for me. 

There's a lot to be said for the older sensors from the M9 / M240 / M10 generation, if I were to press print on a file straight out of camera I would say I usually prefer their results. But if I only had one camera, post processing is so quick and easy these days I certainly wouldn't want to give up the extra information contained in the digital negative of the M11 generation of sensors. 

[colonel]

someone posts this every time a new camera comes out

relax

I won't tell anyone you are still using an SL2, promise .....

[trickness]

19 minutes ago, colonel said:

someone posts this every time a new camera comes out

relax

I won't tell anyone you are still using an SL2, promise .....

I really wouldn’t be bothered by the opinion of anybody who judges the merit of a photograph based on what camera was used to take the picture. 
 

and I’m quite relaxed about that. Thanks! 

Edited March 7, 2024 by trickness

[tritentrue]

On 3/6/2024 at 6:43 AM, trickness said:

The camera is not the main limitation. I am. So I'm going to....keep upgrading myself!

 

+1

Took me a long time to figure that out.  And as a purely manual focus shooter, I don't need PDAF.  Or the flippy screen.  Or 60 megapixels.  The SL2 and -S will be the last cameras I ever own--until I wake up one morning six or eight months from now and decide on a whim to ditch one of them for the SL3.

[tritentrue]

1 hour ago, tritentrue said:

+1

Took me a long time to figure that out.  And as a purely manual focus shooter, I don't need PDAF.  Or the flippy screen.  Or 60 megapixels.  The SL2 and -S will be the last cameras I ever own--until I wake up one morning six or eight months from now and decide on a whim to ditch one of them for the SL3.

-1

After carefully reading @jonoslack's extremely helpful review and noting some of his word choices, then perusing the specs of the SL3, I don't think it's in my future. 

[trickness]

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Looks like the pi$sing and moaning about what the new camera has and doesn’t have is already in full swing in the review thread by Jono 😂

[IkarusJohn]

19 hours ago, Stevejack said:

Yeah I never understood the hate for high megapixel full frame sensors. More information in a digital file is usually a good thing, though it does mean that the starting point for the image is often further away from the desired end result than with say a 24mp image with less dynamic range. 

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen “hate” for high MP.  I’ve seen dislike of high MP for its own sake, and also for the downside of the MP race (for it’s own sake), huge files and motion blur from shutter slap with the Nikon D800e.

Speaking for myself, I don’t see virtue in high MP in isolation, but happy to go with it provided there isn’t a downside.  I see no point in the 60MP of the M11, and much that is troubling; then again, I have an X2D 100c (same pixel pitch as the M11) and I’m very happy with it.

[Olaf_ZG]

I am hunting garbage right now…

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, trickness said:

Looks like the pi$sing and moaning about what the new camera has and doesn’t have is already in full swing in the review thread by Jono 😂

For owners of Q3 and M11: a déjà vu moment.

[DadDadDaddyo]

Pretty exciting!

Now, if only they'd bring it out with an M mount, maybe drop the silly auto-focus and give us a rangefinder, or better yet, a rangefinder *and * a choice between Beyer filter and monochrome sensors!

Man, a monochrome camera like that would totally kick butt in available light... without relying on jerking the sensor around! That'd be a camera I could really get excited about!

Oh. Wait...

... I already am!

Yup, my SL2 will have to remain relegated to times when I want zoom lenses and can "get by" with 40 megapixels, or when I want to break out those amazing Summicron-Ls.

My '74 Super Beetle is in for its long-awaited restoration right now. I guess I'll wait until after that's back, and the smoke has cleared around the current introduction. 

Maybe I'll get *really* lucky and there'll be some kind of forum-fueled tempest over some perceived catastrophic fail, and then folks will freak and start returning them, and then I can pick one up as an Open Box deal from a reputable dealer with a good return policy,  saving significant bucks -- just as I did with my M11 and M11M!

Custom-mixed car paint and custom-cut upholstery can get pretty spendy, y'see....

[o2mpx]

If the SL is the main camera, upgrading seems to be a good strategy - don’t know if it should be every new model or wait until another cycle with the SL4  

Similar to someone else mentioning having a HB X2D, a new SL3 isn’t in the cards but when it becomes available used, it’ll be a good replacement for the S5ii to keep the 16-35/24-90 Leica zooms, not to mention the occasional M lenses, in good use. 

[Stevejack]

3 hours ago, tritentrue said:

-1

After carefully reading @jonoslack's extremely helpful review and noting some of his word choices, then perusing the specs of the SL3, I don't think it's in my future. 

Lots of choice words in Jono's review and you don't need to read too far between the lines to feel the disappointment.

Interesting though regarding his purchase and sale of the A1. He tried the best sensor and tracking tech available short of the A9III and decided to stick with the SL3 so that must say something in favour of the new camera, I think.

 I really thought they might surprise us with a stacked sensor so that the e-shutter is actually usable for anything other than still-life. On the M11 I can almost understand it due to thickness constraints, but come on.. It's crazy that they went down this same road again on a supposed flagship camera... I've been using a stacked sensor for NINE years now so it's not like it's a brand new tech. Even though their tracking and autofocus is several generations behind, a stacked sensor would have at least made completely silent shooting a viable option. 

[SrMi]

16 minutes ago, Stevejack said:

I really thought they might surprise us with a stacked sensor so that the e-shutter is actually usable for anything other than still-life.

M11, Q3, a7RIV, and a7rV all have the same sensor readout speed. Owners of those cameras have been using the electronic shutter for non-still-life scenes.

Yes, a stacked sensor would be nice, but it may harm IQ (higher read noise).

[hillavoider]

Which Lumix is the SL3 based on? i think the little S5ii is looking very good for a couple grand

Edited March 7, 2024 by hillavoider

[Stevejack]

3 minutes ago, SrMi said:

M11, Q3, a7RIV, and a7rV all have the same sensor readout speed. Owners of those cameras have been using the electronic shutter for non-still-life scenes.

Yes, a stacked sensor would be nice, but it may harm IQ (higher read noise).

I get what you're saying but Sony offers cameras with and without a stacked sensor, there are options for those within their ecosystem to have choice. I don't personally find the M11 e-shutter useable, the readout at 60mp is just too slow if anything in the frame is moving.

With Leica, if you're invested in their lenses you don't get an option. You're stuck with an audible mechanical shutter, or the limitations of a slow readout speed. Maybe I'm crazy but I just think flagship cameras should incorporate the best tech available (especially at Leica's price point) and models priced at a lower point can start having features removed. 

[SrMi]

13 minutes ago, Stevejack said:

I get what you're saying but Sony offers cameras with and without a stacked sensor, there are options for those within their ecosystem to have choice. I don't personally find the M11 e-shutter useable, the readout at 60mp is just too slow if anything in the frame is moving.

With Leica, if you're invested in their lenses you don't get an option. You're stuck with an audible mechanical shutter, or the limitations of a slow readout speed. Maybe I'm crazy but I just think flagship cameras should incorporate the best tech available (especially at Leica's price point) and models priced at a lower point can start having features removed. 

Sony has two or three flagship cameras: A1, A9III, and a7rV. None of them is best for all use cases. Leica could have an SL3 that corresponds to a7rV and an SL3-S that corresponds to A1. 

[padam]

8 hours ago, Stevejack said:

I get what you're saying but Sony offers cameras with and without a stacked sensor, there are options for those within their ecosystem to have choice. I don't personally find the M11 e-shutter useable, the readout at 60mp is just too slow if anything in the frame is moving.

With Leica, if you're invested in their lenses you don't get an option. You're stuck with an audible mechanical shutter, or the limitations of a slow readout speed. Maybe I'm crazy but I just think flagship cameras should incorporate the best tech available (especially at Leica's price point) and models priced at a lower point can start having features removed. 

Leica has enough problems already with battery life, putting in more advanced tech would only exacerbate the issue.
(I am fearful that the SL3-S might just be an SL2-S with phase-detect added like an S5II, the battery and cooling simply can't handle any more.)

Also, even if people would be willing to pay 10000$+ dollars for a Leica with a stacked sensor (most of them probably wouldn't), Sony probably wouldn't just supply any of their sensors to competitors (Sigma fp is another casualty of that), without that it is hard to expect such models.

[trickness]

Wow, politely brutal review of the SL3 here: 

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[grahamc]

On 3/7/2024 at 7:13 AM, trickness said:

parked cars. 

😂😂 any of them will do as long as it’s parked 

leave my cats out of this tho, Jim 

Edited March 8, 2024 by grahamc