disconnekt Posted November 27, 2007 Share #1 Posted November 27, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm looking to buy a rangefinder and I'm hoping all you specialists can advise me. I started out shooting on film with a Nikon FM2 and also used a Mamiya 645 and a Speedgraphic 4x5. Then, many years ago, I switched to digital and among many others have owned a Leica Digilux 2, D-lux 2, and a Panasonic L1. Recently I dusted off my old FM2 and was blown away by how much more I prefer the look of the images it makes as compared to digital (my lovely 50mm f1.4 lens helps too). So I decided to get back into film photography again, but this time I want to try a rangefinder (something I always wanted to do actually). I'm a bit overwhelmed by all the different kinds and lenses, but mostly by the prices, esp. for Leica gear. What I want is a fairly compact manual or semi-automatic rangefinder body and a fast 50mm lens (ideally 1.4). I'm happy to buy second hand. What are my best options for under $1000? Thanks in advance for your advice!! -alison Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 27, 2007 Posted November 27, 2007 Hi disconnekt, Take a look here which rangefinder suits my needs?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted November 27, 2007 Share #2 Posted November 27, 2007 Hi, What type of $'s are we talking about? I would suggest either a s/h Voigtlander Bessa or a Leica M2/3/4. The Voigtlander will have a built in meter, either manual or AE depending on the model. Some are screw mount and others are M bayonet. The Leica will be fully manual so you would also need a meter. As for lenses any of the Leica 35/50 1.4's will be out of your budget. You could look at a 50 2.8 Elmar (a fine lens) or 35 Summaron. Maybe you'll get lucky and find an older 50 f2 Summicron? You should also consider a 35 1.7 Voigtlander lens or one of their 50's. I have a couple of the their lenses and they are excellent - again s/h to keep the price down. Remember you can buy a screw lens and an M adapter. Depending if you prefer 35 or 50mm I would suggest one of the older M's (M2 for 35/50/90 viewfinder, M3 for 50/90/135) and whichever one of the above lenses you can afford. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
disconnekt Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share #3 Posted November 27, 2007 Thanks for the info! I do want/need a built-in light meter so I guess the Leica's are out of the question. I'm going to look into the Voigtlander options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
disconnekt Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share #4 Posted November 27, 2007 BTW is the depth-of-field of a 50mm 1.4 SLR lens equivalent to that of a 50mm 1.4 rangefinder lens? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 27, 2007 Share #5 Posted November 27, 2007 Yes, the Depth Of Field is not dependent on the kind of VF system... in many SLRn you can have a visual verification of DOF closing the diaphragm to the f stop you like... of course this is impossible with a RF (even if there were times in which Leitz engineered a strange trick to have a sort of DOF evaluation on old Ms...); but isn't a great problem, when you get accustomed to the RF way of shooting. Regarding your choice : you say you want compactness, light metering, and a luminous normal lens, 1000 $ top spending: from a Leica Lover : why not to consider a used Leica CL ? for that amount, or probably less, you can find a very fine item with an excellent Leica 40mm f2 lens and also a very good Leica 90mm f4... ok. I admit I'm biased towards Leicas, but the CL is really an excellent camera: you can easily find lot of infos on it here and in other forums & sites (for instance : Leica Minolta* CL) And if you really want a luminous 50... add to the CL a Voigtlander Nokton 1,5: everyone that has it praise it a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
disconnekt Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share #6 Posted November 27, 2007 I just found there is a Voigtlander 40 mm 1.4 lens that looks very nice indeed, and not too expensive! A little wider than I like, but... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
disconnekt Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share #7 Posted November 27, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Oops Luigi I hadn't seen your post. I'm checking out the CL right now.... Would that work with a Voigtlander lens? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
disconnekt Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share #8 Posted November 27, 2007 Wow, I just read the page you linked to about the CL and it seems to be JUST what I am looking for! From what I gather, it can be used with the Voigtlander 40/1.4 too. Where would be the best place to buy one of these—eBay? B&H? thanks again for your advice!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipotto Posted November 27, 2007 Share #9 Posted November 27, 2007 Alison, Luigi beat me to it. There is a CL in the classifieds right now. You may also look for a deal on an M6. With either body, consider that you may need/want a CLA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 27, 2007 Share #10 Posted November 27, 2007 Wow, I just read the page you linked to about the CL and it seems to be JUST what I am looking for! From what I gather, it can be used with the Voigtlander 40/1.4 too. Where would be the best place to buy one of these—eBay? B&H? thanks again for your advice!!! I'm European... have not experience on US used gear dealers, and do not like ebay (even if know that lot of people buy with satisfaction this way)... in Europe, one of the best is leicashop of Wien, MW Classic in England, Schouten, Rahn, and Leica Bei master in Germany... they sell Worldwide... but I have the impression that at the moment in US you get better prices... And yes , the Voigtlander lenses can be used on CL (remember, CL VF has 3 frames: 40 - 50 - 90): many of them have screw mount only, but adapters SM to BM are easy to find and cheap. I made a quick look at current prices... keeping in mind your 1000$ target, have the feel that you can buy for LESS a CL body and the Voigt Nokton 50 new, for round 1000 CL body + Summicron 40 (repeat: GREAT lens) + Nokton 50 new, for a little more the classic CL outfit body+40+90 plus a Nokton 50 new (and if you're so lucky to find a used Nokton... I think it's difficult...); start chasing !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
disconnekt Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share #11 Posted November 27, 2007 Thanks for the tip about the classifieds, but I can't find that forum... which one is it? To Luigi, I really appreciate the list of Euro Leica dealers. I am in Paris, France, but I will be in the US at Christmas so I might prefer to buy there since the Euro is so strong. I will compare all the options! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
disconnekt Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share #12 Posted November 27, 2007 P.S. After reading more details about the CL, it seems it's not accurate for focusing at apertures less than 2... is this true? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 28, 2007 Share #13 Posted November 28, 2007 P.S. After reading more details about the CL, it seems it's not accurate for focusing at apertures less than 2... is this true? Sincerely... I do not know: with my one I tipically use the Summicron 40, and it focuses well at f2 : the RF of the CL is intrinsically less precise than the RF of the classic Leica Ms for it has a narrower base of measure (the distance between the center of the two mirrors that make the convergency of the splitted image); but I do not know what is the same measure for, say, the present Voigtlander Bessas... you can surely find this data somewhere: is one of the most important tech spec for a RF camera. Casually, it never happened that I used, for instance, my Summilux 50 1,4 on my CL; on the other side, I often used on the CL my Tele Elmar 135: it's only a f4 lens, but by definition is critical to focus on a RF with narrow base, and it focuses perfectly. I think that someone in the forum has surely direct experience with some 1,4 on the CL... wait and something about will be posted... we are all eager to give infos to newcomers... ... You are in PARIS ? ... there are a pair of GREAT new & used Leica shops... I remember by sure one next to Montparnasse Cemetery... do not remember exactly... visited 4 or 5 years ago... near Metro "Vavin".. Bvd. Raspail seems to me... and another in Bastille area, maybe... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
disconnekt Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share #14 Posted November 28, 2007 Dear Luigi, yes, there are a few Leica shops in my neighborhood (Bastille) but it seems like in general, Leica equipment is more expensive in France than in Germany or the US. I found the following for sale on eBay: "A complete original LEICA CL camera including : the body, a 40mm SUMMICRON-C lens made by LEITZ Germany, a 90mm M-ROKKOR lens made by MINOLTA, a leather case for the camera, lenses and accessories, a UV filter, 2 lens hoods, a cap, a user manual." He says the camera in in very good condition (one previous owner) and the meter works perfectly. In your opinions, what would this package be worth? (BTW, the seller is in Paris, France, so I could check out the camera before paying to avoid being scammed.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 28, 2007 Share #15 Posted November 28, 2007 I didn't think about the CL. Its a nice compact camera and the lens is excellent. However, you need to bear in mind that it is an older camera but not made to quite the same exacting standards of an M2 or M3 IMO. If the meter fails it is probably not economical to repair (although still useable). If you find a nice one in good working order go for it. If not, given that you need the metering, I would choose a newish Voigtlander. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted November 28, 2007 Share #16 Posted November 28, 2007 Dear Luigi, yes, there are a few Leica shops in my neighborhood (Bastille) but it seems like in general, Leica equipment is more expensive in France than in Germany or the US. Blvd Beaumarchais probably has the highest concentration of Leica shops in the world <grin>. But when I lived in Paris I used to buy most of my equipment from the UK due to the prices in France. I did buy a 50mm Summicron from Maison du Leica, but only because I was too impatient to wait for delivery from the UK. Ffordes in the UK - ffordes photographic : Main Index - have a mint used Voigtlander 3M with 50mm lens at £499. I have to add I never used either the camera or this lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
disconnekt Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share #17 Posted November 28, 2007 Thanks for piping in, James and Steve. The Bessa 3M looks nice too, but it's a little more expensive as well.... How does the size compare to the CL? I want this to be my take-everywhere camera (which means it must not take up TOO much room in my purse). I'm also feeling dizzy in choosing which lens... the Voigtlander 40/1.4, the 50/1.5, the Summicron 50/2... I have NO experience whatsoever in focusing with a rangefinder. Since I like to use fast lenses wide open (and shoot pictures of my fast-moving baby), will I go crazy trying to focus with the CL? Thanks again as always... -alison Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bernd Banken Posted November 28, 2007 Share #18 Posted November 28, 2007 Alison, here is the offer you can't resist:D Voigtländer Bessa-R3A mit Leica-M Anschluss bei eBay.de: Voigtländer (endet 28.11.07 19:00:00 MEZ) This model and a lens Voigtländer 2,8 35mm Pancake Version 2 delivers directly the "feeling" of rangefinder photography. Ok, the shutter has not the quiet "ups" as a Leica M but that is not so important. The lens from ebay has a price range of 200-270 € including hood. Its small, nearly too small for certain fingers but the qualitiy for your purpose its really good. Here a shot in dim light: Flickr Photo Download: The hatmaker The test drive concerning RF photography should be done by you on a money-wise low level due to no experience of this kind of shooting. But I'm sure that after you spent some training a change to leica is on the hand.... BTW. here a shot in Paris Jardin Luxembourgh with my NikonF: Paris, Jardin Luxembourg on Flickr - Photo Sharing! Cheers Bernd PS: next Sunday I'm at the Ile Noirmoutier... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 28, 2007 Share #19 Posted November 28, 2007 Dear Luigi, yes, there are a few Leica shops in my neighborhood (Bastille) but it seems like in general, Leica equipment is more expensive in France than in Germany or the US. I found the following for sale on eBay: "A complete original LEICA CL camera including : the body, a 40mm SUMMICRON-C lens made by LEITZ Germany, a 90mm M-ROKKOR lens made by MINOLTA, a leather case for the camera, lenses and accessories, a UV filter, 2 lens hoods, a cap, a user manual." He says the camera in in very good condition (one previous owner) and the meter works perfectly. In your opinions, what would this package be worth? (BTW, the seller is in Paris, France, so I could check out the camera before paying to avoid being scammed.) With the capability to inspect the camera it can be a good combo... of course everything depends upon PRICE...In Euro, I'd say in the range of 5-600 if body AND LENSES are fine... under 500 a bargain, for there are many accessories, even if for the CL the proper accessories (hoods-cases...) are "less-add-on-values" than for classic Leicas... I'd like to have an original hood for my 21 Super Angulon... but the one I saw for sale was priced 200 Euros or so... The Minolta 90 can be interesting... it's very similar to the Leitz 90 for CL... and there were also Rokkors 90 engraved "Made by Leitz"... that is for when Leitz stopped to sell the CL (1976), the manufacturer (Minolta) went on to produce it under the name "Minolta CL" and then "Minolta CLE"... and also the lens production (for the 40-90 couple) was shifted to Japan... they made also a good 28mm f 2,8...you can find the whole story somewhere... And...about France... (sorry, I like too much to speak of Leicas), when the CL was announced, too keep the price under the 1000 Francs level in France, Leitz engineered a cheap normal lens (40mm 2,8, assembled in Romania), but it was never really put on the market... it had a native-defective tab that obscured the VF... a batch of 400 or so was manufactured, and now they are very chased by collectors, at very high prices... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
disconnekt Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share #20 Posted November 28, 2007 Bernd, thanks for the link—unfortunately the Voigtlander auction was in German and only shipped to Germany. Luigi, again, very useful info, thanks! If anyone can speak from experience about focusing a fast normal lens on a CL, please do chime in! Also, I'd be very curious to know how the Bessas compare to the CL size-wise and weight-wise (an important consideration for me!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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