Which 50mm to pair with Summilux 35mm preAsph?

[Sebastian S]

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Which 50mm from Leica would you pair with the 35mm pre-Asph Summilux? Except the Summarit 1.5/50, which would be to much of character for me. 

[shirubadanieru]

50mm pre-asph summilux, or summicron 50mm rigid / collapsible.

Edited February 28, 2024 by shirubadanieru

[fil-m]

Depending on what you want from you 50.

If you expect a similar "kind" of rendering, then any Summilux 50 pre-ash would be interesting. It won't be overly sharp, will have some fine glow depending on the lighting condition. For a more compact and cheaper variant and if you do not need 1.4, a Cron 50 rigid is highly interesting though make sure that the (fragile) coatings are OK.

Otherwise I'd also consider the 50 1.2 remake. It is highly versatile and yet remains the most compact noctilux, slightly larger than the Lux 50. At 1.2 you will get (lots of) character, at 1.4 it will approach the Summilux (though will less sharpness and more swirl), at 2.0 and beyond most aberrations are controlled, it becomes more like a Cron.  

Last point: if you want to have a more "balanced" system in which you couple your 35 pre-asph with a 50 that has a modern rendering (ie a 35 vintage/character lens with a "modern" 50), then the Lux 50 Asph (v1 or new v2) is also an interesting choice.

I cannot give one single answer, just trying to list and explain the different possibilities, your pick should depend on your priority: most similar to the 35 pre (a 50 Lux pre-asph or Cron 50 rigid), most versatile though slightly bulky (Noct 1.2) and more balanced (50 Asph). If budget is a consideration, the Rigid are probably the most affordable if you find a good sample. 

[costa43]

Are you after the “glow’ wide open? I have the 50mm pre asph v3 (although it’s currently at the doctors in Wetzlar) and I’ve recently acquired the 35mm pre asph.  In my limited time with both lenses, I’m pretty confident in stating that the version 3 of the summilux 50mm pre asph is sharper wide open and has less aberrations than the 35mm. It does not exhibit the same look at f1.4 but I would say all being considered is probably your best bet for some kind of consistency. The version 1 Summilux might be a closer match but I’ve not used that one. Someone with more experience of both lenses can chime in I’m sure. 

[Sebastian S]

   

vor 15 Minuten schrieb fil-m:

If you expect a similar "kind" of rendering, then any Summilux 50 pre-ash would be interesting. 

yes, that's what i am lookin for, a quite similar rendering with a little bit of glow wide open but sharp and useable for every day situations stopped down. and mostly the out of focus blur that looks more "classical" to me on the 35mm preAsph. I learned in the last months that I didn't really like the buttery smooth bokeh of the modern lenses 

  

vor 17 Minuten schrieb fil-m:

Otherwise I'd also consider the 50 1.2 remake. It is highly versatile and yet remains the most compact noctilux, slightly larger than the Lux 50. At 1.2 you will get (lots of) character, at 1.4 it will approach the Summilux (though will less sharpness and more swirl), at 2.0 and beyond most aberrations are controlled, it becomes more like a Cron.  

Actually I own the Nokton 1.2 from Voigtländer, it renders more modern and I could still like it if it wouldn't be in reality a 40mm instead of a 50mm. That bugs me so much that I want to get rid of it (or keep it as it is for low light situations, because it's a damn good lens otherwise) - would the noctilux suffer from the same problem? is the true focal length around 50mm? 

  

[fil-m]

15 minutes ago, Sebastian S said:

Actually I own the Nokton 1.2 from Voigtländer, it renders more modern and I could still like it if it wouldn't be in reality a 40mm instead of a 50mm. That bugs me so much that I want to get rid of it (or keep it as it is for low light situations, because it's a damn good lens otherwise) - would the noctilux suffer from the same problem? is the true focal length around 50mm? 

  

I don't know much about the Voigtlander but I believe Leica's 50 including the Noctilux 50/1.2 actual focal length to be slightly narrower than 50mm so most probably around 52mm. If you check Leica's PDF it gives an angle of view of 45.6°/38.6°/26.3° and if we compare that here against the table, it is more than 50mm if I am not mistaken

Otherwise I agree with @costa43, you won't find a Leica 50 similar to the 35 pre-asph in terms of glow and looks, but the Lux 50 or even the Noct 50/1.2 reissue exhibit the nearest characteristics. Here some example of the 50/1.2 where you can find some glow (depends on lighting and only around 1.2/1.4). One nice thing about the 1.2 are the 16 blades that give a rather rounder aperture when stopped down

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cropped, subtle glow:

These are shot on the M11. 

If my memory is correct maybe the first version of the Lux 50 pre-asph should give (very) slight additional glow compared to the later 50 Lux pre-asph v2/v3 or the 50/1.2 reissue. 

In any case if you find a way to rent/borrow the lens at a shop before buying it, that's even better as the 50/1.2 is rather on the expensive side even used.

Hope this helps. 

[fil-m]

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Addendum: my 50/1.2 manual gives the precise 68.8mm angle of view for the M8 in 35mm equivalent.

If we use this number and convert it to the full frame sensor, we get 68.6 x (27mm/35mm) which gives us 51.45mm 

[69xchange]

I’ve been searching for a 50mm as well and I have came to a conclusion that none of the Leica 50mm will render exactly as the 35mm lux pre v2. Closest is the 50mm lux pre-asph, but the glow and SA just isn’t there. I am leaning towards either LLL SP II or the 50mm 1.5 voigtlander heliar classic.  

[evikne]

My only two lenses are the 35mm Summilux pre-ASPH v2 and 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH v3. For me they make a perfect pair, very small and lightweight, and both are more than good enough for everyday use when stopped down a little. I think the 50mm v.2 and v.3 have maybe about one aperture stop advantage in terms of sharpness, so wide open is equivalent to something like f/2 on the 35mm, although they're not really comparable. Version 3 (E46) has a 0.7m minimum focus distance, which many people appreciate. But as others say, if you want even more glow wide open, you might want to look for a version 1, or a Noctilux (f/1.2 or f/1).

BTW, here is the 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH image thread:

 

Edited February 28, 2024 by evikne

[dpitt]

1 hour ago, costa43 said:

Are you after the “glow’ wide open? I have the 50mm pre asph v3 (although it’s currently at the doctors in Wetzlar) and I’ve recently acquired the 35mm pre asph.  In my limited time with both lenses, I’m pretty confident in stating that the version 3 of the summilux 50mm pre asph is sharper wide open and has less aberrations than the 35mm. It does not exhibit the same look at f1.4 but I would say all being considered is probably your best bet for some kind of consistency. The version 1 Summilux might be a closer match but I’ve not used that one. Someone with more experience of both lenses can chime in I’m sure. 

Any version of the 50mm Summilux pre-asph is sharper wide open, compared to any pre-ASPH 35mm Summilux. In that respect the 35lux is unique. Its F1.4 is much softer than the F2.0 and up. And with the 50mm summiluxes the improvement is much more subtle.
I like the way of the 50 more.

30 minutes ago, fil-m said:

You won't find a Leica 50 similar to the 35 pre-asph in terms of glow and looks, but the Lux 50 or even the Noct 50/1.2 reissue exhibit the nearest characteristics.

If you are after the same glow, my suggestion may suprize you.
Try a Summar 50 LTM with adapter. Wide open it is the closest to the way the Summilux 35 pre-ASPH draws.

This makes sense, because both lenses were at the very edge of the technical possibilities when they were released, resulting in the largest compromise between fastness and the issues that come with it.

[costa43]

Sometimes real world examples help to visualise. The 50mm is far less temperamental and predictable with its flair but here are two 'character' photos of my daughter, one with the 50mm pre asph and one with the 35mm pre asph. I'm sure you can guess which is which! The 50mm has some motion blur and is not in perfect focus but it gives you a feel for the rendering.

the 50mm was on the m9p and the 35mm was on the m10r

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Edited February 28, 2024 by costa43

[dpitt]

Indeed, here are my samples. First Summilux v2 50 F1.4 then Summar 50 at F2.0. Of course both will get better control when stopped down.

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Summar at F2.0

Edited February 28, 2024 by dpitt

[costa43]

Just now, dpitt said:

Indeed, here are my samples. First Summilux v2 50 F1.4 then Summar 50 at F2.0. Of course both will get better control when stopped down.

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Summar at F2.0

Definitely more of the glow on the Summar. Interesting lens. I like it.

[JTLeica]

If you like the style of the 35 you have, the 50 Pre is amazing, sharper than the 35 too.

If you want a totally different look, well, theres hundreds of options.

[OSEGAL]

Imho the summicron v1 collapsible.

[grahamc]

Easy one IMO the 50:1.4v3 makes a perfect pair with the 35:1.4v2 

even down to an equivalent sharpness / contrast / colour rendition.  Although both mine are the e 90s produced versions (i.e a Germany-made 35mm copy) so I guess that makes sense that they match 

[Sebastian S]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb dpitt:

Indeed, here are my samples. First Summilux v2 50 F1.4 then Summar 50 at F2.0. Of course both will get better control when stopped down.

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Summar at F2.0

swirl bookeh seems much stronger on the summar. anyone knows if there's a difference in optical design between the summilux 50 V1/V2 ?

[shirubadanieru]

58 minutes ago, Sebastian S said:

swirl bookeh seems much stronger on the summar. anyone knows if there's a difference in optical design between the summilux 50 V1/V2 ?

I find Summar or Summitar a tad too soft, but the Summicron 50mm v1 collapsible does provide a similar swirl and glow wide open but it does sharpen up quite significantly at smaller apertures, so it’d be my recommendation if f2 is not a problem.

Regarding the summilux, yes the v1 is pretty much a better summarit, with less glow and sharper. Compared to the v2, it has less distortion, but does glow more and is softer. Also it’s a bit longer and a few grams heavier VS the V2 chrome version. I’ve had both, and the main difference can be felt at f1.4 and f2 with the V2 glowing much less. That being said from f2.8 onwards, I couldn’t tell a significant difference and love both lenses.

Edited February 29, 2024 by shirubadanieru

[Sebastian S]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb shirubadanieru:

I find Summar or Summitar a tad too soft, but the Summicron 50mm v1 collapsible does provide a similar swirl and glow wide open but it does sharpen up quite significantly at smaller apertures, so it’d be my recommendation if f2 is not a problem.

Regarding the summilux, yes the v1 is pretty much a better summarit, with less glow and sharper. Compared to the v2, it has less distortion, but does glow more and is softer. Also it’s a bit longer and a few grams heavier VS the V2 chrome version. I’ve had both, and the main difference can be felt at f1.4 and f2 with the V2 glowing much less. That being said from f2.8 onwards, I couldn’t tell a significant difference and love both lenses.

thank you, that helps me a lot

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[dpitt]

Maybe some pictures will help.
The same shot as with Summar and Summilux v2
Now first the Summitar at F2.0 and then the Summicron collapsible at F2.0

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And Summicron v1 at F2.0