Case collection Freezes with Leica M11, M11-M, M11-P and Firmware V 2.0.2

[DBAUDUI1]

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Hello,

I have a Leica M11 with Sandisc 128GB GB  UHS-II, formatted in the Leica M11. From time to time, when I take series of pictures one by one the Leica M11 freezes while downloading the pictures to the SD card. I loose the last 3 to 5 pictures. I have set the camera for creating DNG files only on the Sandsic 128GB UHS-II card and then in the internal memory. I can only solve this freeze by taking the battery out of the camera and then back into it.

Best regards.

Dominique

[Krzysztof]

Yes, freezes still happen on 2.02 with M11. I did a lot of test to try to pinpoint the issue. Removed SD card and only use internal memory etc.

My freezes always happen  when I'm turning my camera ON or when it comes out off sleep. Then I have to remove the battery to recover. 
My only guess is that the camera has issues with lens detection. I felt like the most amount of freezes I had, happened with the brand new 35 APO ( I also used it with 50 lux and 28 Summarit). I checked lens detection sensor, was clean, all 6 bit coding on my lenses are in perfect condition. I send it to Wetzlar they said no hardware issue etc. So why do I think that it has something to do with lens detection? Well first the freezes happens when camera boots and try to check the lens, but what really point me to this direction was behavior that was introduced with firmware 2.01. When they added dust protection feature I noticed that my camera will close the shutter randomly during normal operation. Like if for some reason it detects that lens was removed. Unfortunately current firmware doesn't allow us to turn that detection permanently off. It always checks the lens when you turn the camera on, even if you set it to off and manually pick a lens (if your lens has 6 bit coding it will override user choice). Leica could update the firmware, give us that option and we could judge if the startup freezes are gone or not. Just a thought. 

[ArtW]

I experienced one instance of my M11P freezing on the new firmware while trying to play an image.  I resolved it by removing the battery and reinstalling it.  It has not reoccurred since.

[CVN]

1. I purchased a pre-owned M11 two months ago, attached it with a 35mm Sumicron ASPH and a Sandisk 64GB Extreme Pro 300MB/s, Large DNG set: 5 freezes within one week, forcing me to return the camera.

2. I've then acquired a brand new M11, using the same lens, SD card and setup: 1 freeze so far

Both with firmware 2.0.2

[scroy]

I've had my M11 since launch. The current FW is 2.0.2

Lockups happen rarely, but they still happen- The last five to six times under the following conditions.

• Using Visoflex 2 - Close focus on 35APO, 50mm Summicron-DR, with/without SD card. It happens with batteries under 20% charge and twice on fully charged batteries.
• Live View - After the M11 has gone to sleep for a long time with a 35APO lens attached, and there is no SD card. I don't remember what the battery charge was at this point.
• I don't remember it happening without Live View engaged, but I may be in error.

The solution is to remove the battery and put the battery back in.

 

[awsmithjr]

On 2/15/2024 at 4:14 AM, LUF Admin said:

Remark in advance:

This is not a normal discussion thread, the purpose is to find individual problem cases. We will therefore moderate this thread more strictly and delete posts that do not adhere to this rule.

Topic are so-called "freezes" with Leica M11, M11-M, M11-P, which still occur after the last firmware update (V 2.0.2).

With the last firmware updates, the stability of the software has been further optimized, but apparently there are still individual freeze messages that are difficult to pinpoint. In these cases, the camera no longer responds to inputs - the battery must be removed and reinserted in order to continue taking pictures.

As the experiences of those affected are spread across different threads, we would like to bundle your feedback in this thread in order to get an overview and find data for a common cause.

To make it easier for us to get an overview, please do the following:

• Only report if you have exactly this problem with firmware V 2.0.2.
• If possible, please provide information on how often freezes occur and under what circumstances.
• Please no discussions, only case reports

If you would like to discuss your experiences, please do so in this thread:

Bought two M11's recently; update firmware on both to V2.02; both continued to freeze up or occasionally take consecutive photos with one greatly overexposed; tried everything but couldn't fix these problems so returned, got a new one, returned it (same problems) and am now patiently waiting for the M12.  It is amazing that a firm with Leica's history and reputation could produce such a quirky unreliable camera.  

 

 

[dcos]

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No freezes since 2.0.2, both M11 and M11M.

[Gary Phillips]

15 hours ago, bilbrown said:

Yes, this. 

 

But only recently and only with a non-6bit coded lens.

I have set profiles, maybe its taking a moment to read?

I guess it could have something to do with that because I use an old 28mm Elmarit but I'm not trying to take any photos straight after startup, I typically switch on and walk around for at least 10 minutes before taking my first one (or trying to take it) then I find out that it's not working.

[IMAGEPOWER]

M11 and M11-P since launch here. Firmware 2.02. Several freezes per month (I shoot around 1,000 with each camera per month). Sometimes many freezes in a row and then no freezes for another 1,000 shots.

Freezes appear especially on waking up the camera or on changing from shooting mode into play mode very quickly. Sometimes, however, after the shot, the camera freezes before I can change into play mode. The last shot usually is lost (i.e. after taking the battery out of the camera and re-inserting it, the last file is not displayed). I delete files immediately after the shots if I dislike the results.

I do switch very quickly from shooting mode into play mode and then into DELETE mode to delete photos. The M11P takes even longer for that switch, maybe due to the new Content Credentials Feature, but the freezes appear in roughly the same amount on both M11 and M11-P. 

My parameters: always single shot mode, SD card Sandisk Extreme Pro 300MB/s 128GB USB II and Lexar 2000 300MB/s. Lens detection AUTO, I use 15 Leica M lenses, 1 Voigtländer VM lens. Shutter is mostly set to Hybrid. Shutter speed and ISO are always set manually. No difference if I save on SD card only or INT only or both. I started formatting SD cards with SC Card Formatter, nothing changed, so irrelevant for me.

No freezes with M11 on firmware 1.6x with SD Cards USB I (Sandisk Extreme Pro 170MB/s), so this seems to be no hardware issue, but I am no expert.

I did have similar problems at the beginning with my M10 Monochrom, but this seems to have been related to SD cards which have been too fast. Changed to slower SD cards USB I and problems disappeared. M10-R and M10-P are run on USB I type SD cards, no problems there.

As a sports photographer I have been shooting with Nikon from the F5 over the D1X, D2H, D2X, D2Xs, D2Hs, D3, D3H, D3X, D4, D5, D6, D850, Df, to the current Z9. No freezes in the last 27 years, although I format cards during a match a lot (10-20 times in camera), sometimes I shoot more than 5,000 shots a day and use more than 30 lenses (AF-S, AI-S, AF-D...). This is what I call reliability...

Edited February 28, 2024 by IMAGEPOWER

[IMAGEPOWER]

vor einer Stunde schrieb IMAGEPOWER:

M11 and M11-P since launch here. Firmware 2.02. Several freezes per month (I shoot around 1,000 with each camera per month). Sometimes many freezes in a row and then no freezes for another 1,000 shots.

Freezes appear especially on waking up the camera or on changing from shooting mode into play mode very quickly. Sometimes, however, after the shot, the camera freezes before I can change into play mode. The last shot usually is lost (i.e. after taking the battery out of the camera and re-inserting it, the last file is not displayed). I delete files immediately after the shots if I dislike the results.

I do switch very quickly from shooting mode into play mode and then into DELETE mode to delete photos. The M11P takes even longer for that switch, maybe due to the new Content Credentials Feature, but the freezes appear in roughly the same amount on both M11 and M11-P. 

My parameters: always single shot mode, SD card Sandisk Extreme Pro 300MB/s 128GB USB II and Lexar 2000 300MB/s. Lens detection AUTO, I use 15 Leica M lenses, 1 Voigtländer VM lens. Shutter is mostly set to Hybrid. Shutter speed and ISO are always set manually. No difference if I save on SD card only or INT only or both. I started formatting SD cards with SC Card Formatter, nothing changed, so irrelevant for me.

No freezes with M11 on firmware 1.6x with SD Cards USB I (Sandisk Extreme Pro 170MB/s), so this seems to be no hardware issue, but I am no expert.

I did have similar problems at the beginning with my M10 Monochrom, but this seems to have been related to SD cards which have been too fast. Changed to slower SD cards USB I and problems disappeared. M10-R and M10-P are run on USB I type SD cards, no problems there.

As a sports photographer I have been shooting with Nikon from the F5 over the D1X, D2H, D2X, D2Xs, D2Hs, D3, D3H, D3X, D4, D5, D6, D850, Df, to the current Z9. No freezes in the last 27 years, although I format cards during a match a lot (10-20 times in camera), sometimes I shoot more than 5,000 shots a day and use more than 30 lenses (AF-S, AI-S, AF-D...). This is what I call reliability...

Of course I meant UHS instead of USB...

[Mojdeb]

I use my m11 everyday. I run into the freezing problem several times during my shoot. It doesn’t matter what setting I have.

[TerryB]

I have two M11 bought 6 months apart; I only use current coded Leica lenses, I use SanDisk 300MB/s V90 UHS 11 cards – 4 x 256GB/s. Each card has been thoroughly tested with h2testw and formatted with SD Card Formatter.

I have had many, hundreds, of freezes, SD card errors, and lost images on both cameras – both cameras fail a similar amount and in similar ways.

Both cameras worked better before upgrading to V 2.0.2.

If I only took say 100 images a day on a freshly formatted card at a leisurely pace, turning the camera off after each group of images I would be saying no issues.

I can take a thousand images or more a day sometimes in quick succession trying to capture fleeting images, this has become very problematic, freezes and SD card errors occurring frequently every day – with some lost images.

I usually keep the same card in the camera until nearly full, but backing up to an external drive every evening or more often if convenient, I then keep the card as one of my backups until I get home.

I found quickly that I had to turn off Power Saving Mode; it was set to 10mins. Every time I bought the camera up for a shot when the camera had gone into standby, it would freeze requiring battery removal and of course the potential image would be lost.

Rapid single shot operation especially when the buffer was filling up will result in a freeze.

Bracketed shots are generally OK until the buffer fills up when freezes will occur. I sometimes do a bracket of 3 at 1EV, -0.7EV exposure compensation, in high contrast situations.

I now save to Internal as well as the SD card but this has a limitation as the M11 only has 64GB. This however does save about two thirds of the images that would be lost due to freezes and SD card errors; images are only saved to internal, if they are saved to the SD Card they are usually Damaged and unreadable.

All my cards will start to get SD errors when around 30% to 40% full which will result in a freeze, after reformatting in camera they are good again.

The images I am getting are great but I am removing the battery 15 to 25 times a day when on location and loosing images both upon save as well as when the camera is frozen.

[Peter_Hartland523]

I didn't have any freezes on my M11 or M11M until the last update.  Now I have had it happen a number of times.  The SD card has not changed so not the cause.

[IMAGEPOWER]

Am 28.2.2024 um 10:37 schrieb IMAGEPOWER:

M11 and M11-P since launch here. Firmware 2.02. Several freezes per month (I shoot around 1,000 with each camera per month). Sometimes many freezes in a row and then no freezes for another 1,000 shots.

Freezes appear especially on waking up the camera or on changing from shooting mode into play mode very quickly. Sometimes, however, after the shot, the camera freezes before I can change into play mode. The last shot usually is lost (i.e. after taking the battery out of the camera and re-inserting it, the last file is not displayed). I delete files immediately after the shots if I dislike the results.

I do switch very quickly from shooting mode into play mode and then into DELETE mode to delete photos. The M11P takes even longer for that switch, maybe due to the new Content Credentials Feature, but the freezes appear in roughly the same amount on both M11 and M11-P. 

My parameters: always single shot mode, SD card Sandisk Extreme Pro 300MB/s 128GB USB II and Lexar 2000 300MB/s. Lens detection AUTO, I use 15 Leica M lenses, 1 Voigtländer VM lens. Shutter is mostly set to Hybrid. Shutter speed and ISO are always set manually. No difference if I save on SD card only or INT only or both. I started formatting SD cards with SC Card Formatter, nothing changed, so irrelevant for me.

No freezes with M11 on firmware 1.6x with SD Cards USB I (Sandisk Extreme Pro 170MB/s), so this seems to be no hardware issue, but I am no expert.

I did have similar problems at the beginning with my M10 Monochrom, but this seems to have been related to SD cards which have been too fast. Changed to slower SD cards USB I and problems disappeared. M10-R and M10-P are run on USB I type SD cards, no problems there.

As a sports photographer I have been shooting with Nikon from the F5 over the D1X, D2H, D2X, D2Xs, D2Hs, D3, D3H, D3X, D4, D5, D6, D850, Df, to the current Z9. No freezes in the last 27 years, although I format cards during a match a lot (10-20 times in camera), sometimes I shoot more than 5,000 shots a day and use more than 30 lenses (AF-S, AI-S, AF-D...). This is what I call reliability...

Today I had another freeze on the M11. This time I noted a strange behavior, I had actually noted before but didn't recall when I wrote my post above:

I made about 10 shots without any problem inside a train. Then I left the train and wanted to shoot the train outside. Therefore, I changed ISO from 800 to 64, because it was sunny outside. I changed ISO via thumb wheel function, my favorite method for ISO change on the M11 series. Of course I also changed shutter speed (faster) and aperture (smaller). Then I focused, checked exposure and took the shot. Bang! Freeze! I removed the battery and re-inserted it. Camera was fine again, but the shot before the freeze was lost, as usual.

Now interestingly, my settings were still those I used IN the train, i.e. ISO 800. In other words, I had to dial in ISO 64 AGAIN. Aperture of course was not affected as it was set manually nor was the shutter speed.

That hints to the fact that the freeze was already "looking forward" to coming while I was setting my new ISO...but at the time I was setting ISO, there was no actual freeze, the camera behaved normally. The freeze appeared right after pressing the shutter button. I also deliberately waited a long time after wake-up of the camera before I set ISO and pressed the button as there are hints that a "sudden" change from play mode to capture mode could cause the freezes...

Very strange. I recall having had the same strange behavior on former occasions but you would only notice it if you changed the ISO before the "freeze shot". I also wonder if this happens if I set ISO via top dial on the left side instead of using the thumb wheel.

Please, please Leica, fix this freeze problem after exactly 3 months waiting time, or give us the possibility to downgrade to firmware 1.6X. I am afraid Leica could simply sit and wait until the M12 is on the shelves and stops thinking about fixing the M11 freezes...:-( 

[Edax]

Another freeze earlier this morning; reset by popping the battery resulted in full reset of image numbering. Grrr.

[hmzimelka]

My first occurrence with corrupted DNG files came earlier this month while testing two new close focusing Summilux lenses; the 50mm ASPH and 35mm ASPH.

So another forum post promoted me to establish whether it's perhaps 6 bit code related to the Summilux 50mm ASPH lens. Another forum member wrote about the coincidence somewhere, so I thought it was worth a shot. 

 

So today I coded my Zeiss Planar 50mm as a Summilux 50mm ASPH... 

Lo and behold, corrupted DNG files on the first outing! 

Leica FOTOS connectivity is OFF.
Shutter speed and ISO was set manually.
Camera was on for well over 10 seconds before taking the shot!
Live View was ON

My M11 shows these files as "File unreadable"

 

EDIT: Reported the above to Leica. Also suggested it wouldn't be unreasonable for Leica to actually communicate something in the light of these issues, and especially clarify what they meant with, "This error will be remedied shortly.” in their last firmware release notes. Perhaps even offer a custom firmware to go back to 1.6.1. (Pipe dream)

 

 

Edited March 1, 2024 by hmzimelka

[Derbyshire Man]

I too had a number of freezes and lost files over the last couple days. I've taken about 1,000 shots over the last week. Lost about 3 files although with all but 1 I knew immediately. Luckily they were landscape so no harm done.

Saved to internal. No card used, mix of lenses, modern coded 50mm summilux FLE and 35mm summilux pre-asph.

[MitchoIankov]

 Yes, freezes every now and again (very annoying) . Difficult to pinpoint. More often on turn on.

Maybe something related to the 6-bit coding. When I have my 90mm 2.8 Tele-Elmarit 3215860 (Canada) which happens to be recognised as coded correctly (on all digital M) but it is not really coded the camera seams to freeze more often.

It also freezes on wake up (fails to wake up at all) and some times after a picture is taken (with any of my lenses). 

Needles to say, this is very unpleasant for any camera but especially for an M where the focus is manual and one would expect to be simpler to develop/code and test the software for it.

I am an amateur and can live with it. I wonder how do professional photographer cope with it.  

 

Edited March 3, 2024 by MitchoIankov

[Slange00]

M11 Firmware 2.0.2 , Lexar 256g sdxc 250MB/s (purchased from Leica store) 

35mm Apo shooting session yesterday, camera froze twice with red frame shown in other posts here.
 
 Needed to reinsert the battery and sd card to get going again

 

 

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[MQ_user]

My experience with a recently purchased one-previous-owner M11: 

Cosmetically in mint condition. Seems to have been used very little by previous owner, who purchased the camera in fall of 2022. Received camera with latest 2.0.2 installed. The camera frequently does not power on when the power switch is engaged. It is immediately evident when the normal click that signals the shutter opening is not heard. To work around this issue, it is necessary to remove the battery and then slide it back into place. This happens often. I have tried all broadly suggested solutions (memory card vs internal, lens recognition off, etc.) I have not been able to articulate this issue with any settings, equipment or charging behavior.