Video

[SJB27]

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I’ve been using my SL2 for a while now, mainly for headshots. However, I’ve been considering switching to the X2d, but I think it might be better to save up for the 75 or 90 since most of my headshots are in that range, and I take the 24-90 off the camera. But now, I want to start shooting videos and short films. My question is: is the SL2 the right camera for that? If not, which camera system should I consider? I’ve tried shooting some videos, but I can’t find a good tutorial on how to use the video capabilities. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you.

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[BernardC]

1 hour ago, SJB27 said:

But now, I want to start shooting videos and short films. My question is: is the SL2 the right camera for that? If not, which camera system should I consider? I’ve tried shooting some videos, but I can’t find a good tutorial on how to use the video capabilities.

The SL2 is a good camera for video, and the L-mount as a whole is a good system for video. Sigma, Panasonic, and Blackmagic make dedicated video cameras in L-Mount, so there's room to grow

I don't know what you've done so far, but here's a quick primer. I tried to use the terms you'll find in the SL2 menu.

Video Options

Resolution:

• 2K or "Full HD" are enough for smartphones
• 4K or "UHD" is what most new TVs display
• C4K and 5K are for specialized use cases, you can ignore those for now

File format:

• MP4 is highly compressed, but it's fine for light editing
• MOV is less compressed, you'll want to use that for most paid jobs, but it's not needed if you are just learning

Gamma:

• Rec. 709 is your standard TV colour space
• L-Log Rec. 2020 records images at lower contrast, so you get more dynamic range later. Any modern editing software can convert it to a less-flat image, but it looks odd if you view it uncorrected
• HLG Rec. 2020 is a hybrid that looks OK on SDR and HDR displays.  It's convenient for quick edits, but you'll probably want to shoot L-log for more serious work.

Bit Depth:

• 8-bit is SDR (standard dynamic range), i.e.: what we've had on TVs since the 1960s
• 10-bit is HDR (high dynamic range), so it can take advantage of brighter highlights and darker shadows

Frame Rate:

• 24fps is the movie standard
• 25fps was the European TV standard, you can ignore it if you aren't shooting for European broadcast
• 29.97 was the US TV standard, see 25fps
• You'll also see options for double rates: 48, 50, and 59.94. Ignore those for now,

Cropping:

Your options are "full frame 35mm" and APS-C. APS-C is a tighter crop that corresponds to traditional motion picture film frames (24mm wide). It provides a little bit more depth of field. You can switch back and forth, nobody will notice.

The SL2 can record in-camera, provided you have a fast SD card. It can also send video to an external recorder via HDMI. In-camera is fine for now, although there are reasons why you might want to use an external recorder in the future.

 

[SJB27]

19 minutes ago, BernardC said:

The SL2 is a good camera for video, and the L-mount as a whole is a good system for video. Sigma, Panasonic, and Blackmagic make dedicated video cameras in L-Mount, so there's room to grow

I don't know what you've done so far, but here's a quick primer. I tried to use the terms you'll find in the SL2 menu.

Video Options

Resolution:

• 2K or "Full HD" are enough for smartphones
• 4K or "UHD" is what most new TVs display
• C4K and 5K are for specialized use cases, you can ignore those for now

File format:

• MP4 is highly compressed, but it's fine for light editing
• MOV is less compressed, you'll want to use that for most paid jobs, but it's not needed if you are just learning

Gamma:

• Rec. 709 is your standard TV colour space
• L-Log Rec. 2020 records images at lower contrast, so you get more dynamic range later. Any modern editing software can convert it to a less-flat image, but it looks odd if you view it uncorrected
• HLG Rec. 2020 is a hybrid that looks OK on SDR and HDR displays.  It's convenient for quick edits, but you'll probably want to shoot L-log for more serious work.

Bit Depth:

• 8-bit is SDR (standard dynamic range), i.e.: what we've had on TVs since the 1960s
• 10-bit is HDR (high dynamic range), so it can take advantage of brighter highlights and darker shadows

Frame Rate:

• 24fps is the movie standard
• 25fps was the European TV standard, you can ignore it if you aren't shooting for European broadcast
• 29.97 was the US TV standard, see 25fps
• You'll also see options for double rates: 48, 50, and 59.94. Ignore those for now,

Cropping:

Your options are "full frame 35mm" and APS-C. APS-C is a tighter crop that corresponds to traditional motion picture film frames (24mm wide). It provides a little bit more depth of field. You can switch back and forth, nobody will notice.

The SL2 can record in-camera, provided you have a fast SD card. It can also send video to an external recorder via HDMI. In-camera is fine for now, although there are reasons why you might want to use an external recorder in the future.

 

This is tremendous feedback, and it's exactly what I needed. Based on this, I guess the best option for me is to stay with the SL2 and practice shooting video, I do have an external drive so I will not load up my card. The other cameras you mentioned, how do they compare in terms of quality to the SL2? or does it make a difference if I were to use lenes still?

[tomasis7]

I find the program DaVinci Resolve great. I recommend it. I would add Atomos Ninja V to enhance video quality capabilities further.

I played with L-log and I figured it out after several hours of struggling. You could download LUT files from Leica website and test it. 

Edited February 6, 2024 by tomasis7

[LocalHero1953]

I've used the SL2-S for video, mainly for static recording of stage productions, and a few hand held publicity trailers. There are a few others here with much more experience (@hansvons, @BernardC), but in essence, yes, it can do the job very well, producing footage as good as anyone could want. The SL2-S initially had video facilities the SL2 did not, but I believe SL2 firmware upgrades have brought them close.

I now mainly use the Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K for video; it has the L-mount, so shares lenses with my SL2-S. It is much more dedicated to video, without a stills option other than in BRAW format. You could also consider the Panasonic S5ii, Sigma fps, or the DJI Ronin system, all of which are L-mount.

Since you have the SL2 you might as well use it to get into video (as I did) with your current lenses. At a later date you can decide if it fulfils all your needs, or if one of these other L-mount bodies brings additional functionality.

There are a number of threads here on using the SL2/SL2-S for video (at least one of which I started!). The advice I was given there, combined with just doing it, meant that, so far, I have not needed a formal tutorial.

Edited February 7, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[Planetwide]

14 hours ago, SJB27 said:

I’ve been using my SL2 for a while now, mainly for headshots. However, I’ve been considering switching to the X2d, but I think it might be better to save up for the 75 or 90 since most of my headshots are in that range, and I take the 24-90 off the camera. But now, I want to start shooting videos and short films. My question is: is the SL2 the right camera for that? If not, which camera system should I consider? I’ve tried shooting some videos, but I can’t find a good tutorial on how to use the video capabilities. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you.

Pick up a cheap Panasonic S5IIX, it's way more video centric than the SL2. Better 4K output, shutter angle, better AF are some of the reasons to at least look at it.

[hansvons]

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There is a lot of great advice here! 

Bringing some rain to the party, I will stress that great videos can be shot with a phone. Back then, filmmaking required expensive equipment and large amounts of money to pay for the rental house, Kodak, and the lab. That’s gone, and filmmaking is now available to everyone. But the know-how required remains the same. And that’s why YouTube is full of rubbish.

As you have learned that your gear will probably outperform your knowledge (the SL2 is an excellent camera for high-quality video; @BernardC said everything you need to know in terms of gear), I would like to add a few insights for the beginner, assuming that you are genuinely interested in filmmaking:

1. Go for a deep dive and learn why there’s a nomenclature for shot types like long shots and close-ups. Learn that and stick to it for the rest of your life.
2. Try to figure out the difference between an observing camera and a point-of-view shot. 98% of film storytelling works best by observing the action like an innocent witness. 
3. Don’t pan and zoom. Just take still shots that show the action you want to tell in your story. That works best off a tripod. Figure out the difference between a hand-held shot and a tripod shot. Hint: It has to do with No. 2. Gimbles and Steadicams are highly overrated. 
4. There’s a reason why the 35mm lens (FF) is by far the most-used lens. Try to figure out why.
5. Remember that unpredictability and a comprehensive leitmotif are the keys to good storytelling. Should be No.1.
6. Buying gear won’t make your videos better. Only tons of practice and watching the best of the best examples and terrible examples will bring you to the next level.
7. Pay attention to what you are filming. That sounds like a given, but it’s the most neglected part. Clothes matter a lot. The same can be said about hair and, of course, location. Care about these things as you would care about light, focus, and exposure. Offer your talent a clear and easy-to-understand direction. 
8. The eyelight is the most essential light in any portraiture. As filmmaking is often basically a sequence of portraits, eyelight should be at the centre of any light considerations, the secret sauce to good cinematography.
9. Make yourself familiar with basic cinematography, like background-up and background-down mood styles. Try to figure out why bokeh isn’t a thing in cinematography and why pros hardly use AF. 
10. Remember that sound is 60% of filmmaking. Get someone to do that for you. 

 

Side notes: as mentioned above by @tomasis7, Davinci Resolve will serve you well for the rest of your life. It matured into a highly capable editing and finishing platform. And it’s illegally cheap. 

Like still photography, filmmaking is an extremely vast field with literally hundreds of rabbit holes to fall in. Beware and don’t get distracted.

Unfortunately, both disciplines don’t have much in common besides the fact that they require a camera. But you can leverage hundreds of regular skills to make good videos. The most obvious is good sense for the obvious and a trained eye for the peculiarities of life. Most seasoned photographers have that.

Lastly, and again, assuming you are taking your new endeavour seriously, perhaps a new business opportunity, I recommend staying away from 90% of YouTube videos on this matter. Most of them are technology-driven and not content-driven, presented by male camera buffs and not working pros (the latter rarely have the time). Plus, why do women rarely do these videos? It could be an interesting documentary. 

Edited February 7, 2024 by hansvons

[hansvons]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Since you have the SL2 you might as well use it to get into video (as I did) with your current lenses. At a later date you can decide if it fulfils all your needs, or if one of these other L-mount bodies brings additional functionality.

This. Also, the case can be made that for video alone, the Sony FX3 is very likely the best budget cinema camera on the market, with the BM Pocket 6K a close second or at the top if money is the deciding factor.

 

55 minutes ago, Planetwide said:

Pick up a cheap Panasonic S5IIX, it's way more video centric than the SL2.

True. But as it's a super-automatic camera with its shockingly capable IBIS and excellent AF, it will make the beginner lazy. Plus, I find Leica's colour science more catering to the cinema crowd. And lastly, I'd use what I have before I buy when testing the waters.

[LocalHero1953]

40 minutes ago, hansvons said:

 

1. Go for a deep dive and learn why there’s a nomenclature for shot types like long shots and close-ups. Learn that and stick to it for the rest of your life.
2. Try to figure out the difference between an observing camera and a point-of-view shot. 98% of film storytelling works best by observing the action like an innocent witness. 
3. Don’t pan and zoom. Just take still shots that show the action you want to tell in your story. That works best off a tripod. Figure out the difference between a hand-held shot and a tripod shot. Hint: It has to do with No. 2. Gimbles and Steadicams are highly overrated. 
4. There’s a reason why the 35mm lens (FF) is by far the most-used lens. Try to figure out why.
5. Remember that unpredictability and a comprehensive leitmotif are the keys to good storytelling. Should be No.1.
6. Buying gear won’t make your videos better. Only tons of practice and watching the best of the best examples and terrible examples will bring you to the next level.
7. Pay attention to what you are filming. That sounds like a given, but it’s the most neglected part. Clothes matter a lot. The same can be said about hair and, of course, location. Care about these things as you would care about light, focus, and exposure. Offer your talent a clear and easy-to-understand direction. 
8. The eyelight is the most essential light in any portraiture. As filmmaking is often basically a sequence of portraits, eyelight should be at the centre of any light considerations, the secret sauce to good cinematography.
9. Make yourself familiar with basic cinematography, like background-up and background-down mood styles. Try to figure out why bokeh isn’t a thing in cinematography and why pros hardly use AF. Remember that sound is 60% of filmmaking. Get someone to do that for you. 

This is very helpful - but where do I find out more about 1, 2, 5 and 9, and perhaps 7? 🙂

[hansvons]

5 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

This is very helpful - but where do I find out more about 1, 2, 5 and 9, and perhaps 7? 🙂

1. Sydney Lumet wrote a book on filmmaking. I didn't read it, but I got it recommended a couple of times, the last time a few days ago. There are tons of books on filmmaking, some catering more to the cineasts; others are highly specialised. I shall have a look at my bookshelf.

2. This can be researched by watching films. Hitchcock shot his films mostly from a witness perspective, albeit often from peculiar locations, often with a voyeuristic touch and lots of DOF. His infamous shower curtain scene is a montage of shots seen through the murderer's eyes. POV shots are mostly handheld and action-driven, conveying emotions such as fear or being forebearers of cold-blooded assaults (horror movies).

5. That's Shakespeare, in a nutshell. You might anticipate how things will develop, but you don't know for sure.

9. There are tons of books here as well. The bokeh story is a thing I experienced myself. Cinematography doesn't happen in vacua. It occurs in a timeline driven by rhythm and stories, mostly emotions of people doing stuff. The audience hardly pays attention to things like bokeh, as neither recognises continuity errors like a watch in a period piece. Background-down is a feature of horror movie lighting as opposed to background-up, which is an uplifting way of setting up light with lots of backlights illuminating an actor's hair and a bright background. Think of perfume commercials or romantic comedies.

7. I tell students to buy regularly the Vogue. I do it, too, and you learn a lot about styling and zeitgeist. Plus, it reminds you that apparel and hairdos are crucial. We, at least I, tend to forget that. 

[BernardC]

Visually, the big difference between stills and video (for me) is that you rarely want moving frames to be "perfect." You might want your actors to hit certain key frames in your shot, but it's not the same as still photography where you want every composition to be perfect, or perfectly unbalanced. You also don't need to show everything in one frame, the table you showed in your establishing shot is still assumed to be there during a close-up.

That carries through to lighting as well, you want your scenes to look good from multiple camera positions, or else they'll be a headache to edit. Note that you can use that as a narrative tool, having actors move in and out of "perfect" lighting as a scene progresses. There's also the classic meme of having "Hollywood" lighting on your female lead, while everyone else gets bad light. You can use that, ironically or not, to tell your story.

[LocalHero1953]

After recording a play in unexpectedly very low lighting, I explored the noise reduction tools in Davinci. I was surprised to find that (a) video seems to be more tolerant of spatial noise than stills but (b) I discovered the concept of temporal noise, which is obviously unknown in stills.

All part of my journey of learning video by trial and error😬

[Planetwide]

50 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

All part of my journey of learning video by trial and error😬

I think that we've all been there 🥴

[keeping_a_balance]

Wow.  Post #1 by @BernardC and #7/#10 by @hansvons have been the most informative piece of info on filming I have seen/read in the two years I have been dancing around the subject always thinking I want to dip my toes into.

Thank you!

Edited February 7, 2024 by keeping_a_balance

[SJB27]

On 2/6/2024 at 11:59 AM, BernardC said:

The SL2 is a good camera for video, and the L-mount as a whole is a good system for video. Sigma, Panasonic, and Blackmagic make dedicated video cameras in L-Mount, so there's room to grow

I don't know what you've done so far, but here's a quick primer. I tried to use the terms you'll find in the SL2 menu.

Video Options

Resolution:

• 2K or "Full HD" are enough for smartphones
• 4K or "UHD" is what most new TVs display
• C4K and 5K are for specialized use cases, you can ignore those for now

File format:

• MP4 is highly compressed, but it's fine for light editing
• MOV is less compressed, you'll want to use that for most paid jobs, but it's not needed if you are just learning

Gamma:

• Rec. 709 is your standard TV colour space
• L-Log Rec. 2020 records images at lower contrast, so you get more dynamic range later. Any modern editing software can convert it to a less-flat image, but it looks odd if you view it uncorrected
• HLG Rec. 2020 is a hybrid that looks OK on SDR and HDR displays.  It's convenient for quick edits, but you'll probably want to shoot L-log for more serious work.

Bit Depth:

• 8-bit is SDR (standard dynamic range), i.e.: what we've had on TVs since the 1960s
• 10-bit is HDR (high dynamic range), so it can take advantage of brighter highlights and darker shadows

Frame Rate:

• 24fps is the movie standard
• 25fps was the European TV standard, you can ignore it if you aren't shooting for European broadcast
• 29.97 was the US TV standard, see 25fps
• You'll also see options for double rates: 48, 50, and 59.94. Ignore those for now,

Cropping:

Your options are "full frame 35mm" and APS-C. APS-C is a tighter crop that corresponds to traditional motion picture film frames (24mm wide). It provides a little bit more depth of field. You can switch back and forth, nobody will notice.

The SL2 can record in-camera, provided you have a fast SD card. It can also send video to an external recorder via HDMI. In-camera is fine for now, although there are reasons why you might want to use an external recorder in the future.

 

This is tremendous feedback, and it's exactly what I needed. Based on this, I guess the best option for me is to stay with the SL2 and practice shooting video; I do have an external drive, so I will not load up my card. How do the other cameras you mentioned compare in quality to the SL2? Or does it make a difference if I were to use Lenes still?

[LocalHero1953]

I made a limited comparison of the BMCC 6k with the SL2-S here (p2 onwards). I never found it easy to match the CinemaDNG of the Sigma fp with the SL2-S, while I found BRAW relatively straightforward, though that could have been my inexperience in grading. 

There are several other threads in that Other L-Mount Products subforum that discuss other cameras and video. 

Edited February 7, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[tomasis7]

11 hours ago, SJB27 said:

This is tremendous feedback, and it's exactly what I needed. Based on this, I guess the best option for me is to stay with the SL2 and practice shooting video; I do have an external drive, so I will not load up my card. How do the other cameras you mentioned compare in quality to the SL2? Or does it make a difference if I were to use Lenes still?

You could google for YouTube about 4:2:2 versus 4:2:0 then Atomos Ninja takes in 12 bits instead of 10bits internal recording. Internal recording is not beefy enough to record higher quality than an external recorder. For comparison, DNG is 12 bits. So it is more dynamic values there in the video.  

I even installed the MC24pro app on my smartphone (Samsung S23). It takes to the next level of video making. It works in the same way as Atomos. I think it is more about postprocessing work. 

I liked how the video looked after postprocessing. See below.

https://leica-camera.com/en-int/stories/dominic-nahr-sl2-s-gran-turismo 

 

Edited February 8, 2024 by tomasis7

[SJB27]

On 2/8/2024 at 2:38 AM, tomasis7 said:

You could google for YouTube about 4:2:2 versus 4:2:0 then Atomos Ninja takes in 12 bits instead of 10bits internal recording. Internal recording is not beefy enough to record higher quality than an external recorder. For comparison, DNG is 12 bits. So it is more dynamic values there in the video.  

I even installed the MC24pro app on my smartphone (Samsung S23). It takes to the next level of video making. It works in the same way as Atomos. I think it is more about postprocessing work. 

I liked how the video looked after postprocessing. See below.

https://leica-camera.com/en-int/stories/dominic-nahr-sl2-s-gran-turismo 

It seems like maybe looking at the black magic might be an option since it has L mount. I'm going to be shooting a short film, my first in the fall of this year. My ego and overzelous self wants to rent a ari, but that won't happen since i don't have the budget for a 4 or 5 day shoot. So should i just rent some cinema lenes that fit on the SL2 or rent another camera.

On 2/6/2024 at 11:59 AM, BernardC said:

The SL2 is a good camera for video, and the L-mount as a whole is a good system for video. Sigma, Panasonic, and Blackmagic make dedicated video cameras in L-Mount, so there's room to grow

I don't know what you've done so far, but here's a quick primer. I tried to use the terms you'll find in the SL2 menu.

Video Options

Resolution:

• 2K or "Full HD" are enough for smartphones
• 4K or "UHD" is what most new TVs display
• C4K and 5K are for specialized use cases, you can ignore those for now

File format:

• MP4 is highly compressed, but it's fine for light editing
• MOV is less compressed, you'll want to use that for most paid jobs, but it's not needed if you are just learning

Gamma:

• Rec. 709 is your standard TV colour space
• L-Log Rec. 2020 records images at lower contrast, so you get more dynamic range later. Any modern editing software can convert it to a less-flat image, but it looks odd if you view it uncorrected
• HLG Rec. 2020 is a hybrid that looks OK on SDR and HDR displays.  It's convenient for quick edits, but you'll probably want to shoot L-log for more serious work.

Bit Depth:

• 8-bit is SDR (standard dynamic range), i.e.: what we've had on TVs since the 1960s
• 10-bit is HDR (high dynamic range), so it can take advantage of brighter highlights and darker shadows

Frame Rate:

• 24fps is the movie standard
• 25fps was the European TV standard, you can ignore it if you aren't shooting for European broadcast
• 29.97 was the US TV standard, see 25fps
• You'll also see options for double rates: 48, 50, and 59.94. Ignore those for now,

Cropping:

Your options are "full frame 35mm" and APS-C. APS-C is a tighter crop that corresponds to traditional motion picture film frames (24mm wide). It provides a little bit more depth of field. You can switch back and forth, nobody will notice.

The SL2 can record in-camera, provided you have a fast SD card. It can also send video to an external recorder via HDMI. In-camera is fine for now, although there are reasons why you might want to use an external recorder in the future.

 

This is tremendous feedback, and it's exactly what I needed. Based on this, I guess the best option for me is to stay with the SL2 and practice shooting video, I do have an external drive so I will not load up my card. The other cameras you mentioned, how do they compare in terms of quality to the SL2? or does it make a difference if I were to use lenes still?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[BernardC]

13 hours ago, SJB27 said:

Based on this, I guess the best option for me is to stay with the SL2 and practice shooting video, I do have an external drive so I will not load up my card. The other cameras you mentioned, how do they compare in terms of quality to the SL2? or does it make a difference if I were to use lenes still?

Quality isn't the issue. You can shoot professional-level video with any of these cameras.

Those cameras provide more video features (like timecode), and they usually have an wider range of output formats. The Blackmagic and Sigma can record directly in RAW. These are things you may need eventually, but you don't need them right now.

As far as the lenses are concerned, start with what you have. I recommend that you tweak your focus setup in the menu. The "Standard MF" (default) option varies the response depending on how fast you turn the ring. That's useless for video, where you want a consistent response. Choose one of the other options instead, like 180 or 120 degrees (half a turn from infinity to minimum, or one third of a turn, respectively). In case you are wondering, the longer/slower options like 360 degrees are usually reserved for when you are using motorized focus gears. They are a pain to use by hand.

[LocalHero1953]

I never worried about how robust SD cards were until I got the BMCC6K with its CFe card, which seems so much stronger and more professional. Totally irrational🤷‍♂️