Close up extension tubes or adapter?

[Dr. G]

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I shot a culinary event last week and the one thing I struggled with was the minimum focus distance with my Voigtlander 40 1.2.  It happens to have a decent minimum focus distance but I would still like to get close so I don’t need to crop to get my preferred composition.  I can’t use a longer lens because the mfd is usually further away and I need to be fairly unobtrusive as these are dinners that are served in formal restaurants.  I need to be able to frame and stay close.  

I also need to use my SL2-S.  I have the Q3 and it does have a macro mode that I use more as a close focus mode, but even at the 50mm crop lines to get the framing right, I’m often at 5.6-6.3 in relatively dim light which either requires higher ISOs or trying to use very slow shutter speeds to avoid noise.  Even with the stabilization of the Q3, the images weren’t sharp at low shutter speeds close up. So the SL2-S with the CV40 would work (maybe their 50 APO, but that mfd is over 2 ft).

7artisans makes a close focus helicoid but the reviews aren’t great.  Anyone have any experience with another brand of helicoid or maybe extension tubes?

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[dpitt]

I think most extension rings would be too much. On the 40 mm they will force it into macro range of around 1:1, and you probably can not get much larger FOV at infinity,

Why not use a MF reflex lens?

e.g.
The Summicron 50 R F2.0 or  Summilux 50 R F1.4
MFD is 50 cm and smallest FOV is 180 mm x 270 mm

And
The great alround 60mm Macro Elmarit R F2.8 MFD is 27 cm and smallest FOV is 48 mm x 72 mm
Lots of people use it as a 'standard' lens and even as a portrait lens too.

Any standard adapter R-M or R-L will do.  No need for the Leica adapter unless you want EXIF info. Then you need the Leica R-L adapter and ROM versions of the R lens.

Alternatively, I suggest using a zoom lens, but then it will be slower and you mentioned that will not work out well with dim light.

Edited January 19, 2024 by dpitt

[tritentrue]

Assuming your 40mm is VM, you could try to find an OUFRO (16468, 16469 IIRC) which gives 10mm extension.  The 52mm filter thread might also make the current Elpro close-up lens a workable solution.

[jaapv]

Have a look at the Sigma macro lenses for your SL. They don't break the bank and focus seamlessly to 1:1. The 105 mm Macro Art 2.8 appears to be especially useful for your purpose. It will give you a more natural perspective than a shorter lens too.

[BernardC]

10 hours ago, Dr. G said:

7artisans makes a close focus helicoid but the reviews aren’t great.  Anyone have any experience with another brand of helicoid or maybe extension tubes?

I use the Hawk Factory "MACRO TUBE HELICOID" for this. It works great. I bought it to use with my ZM Planar 50 at weddings, where you'll often need to do a quick close-up of food, decorations, rings, etc. It lives on that lens now.

The "infinity lock" button is near where you would usually find it on an older M or LTM lens with infinity lock, so activating close-up mode feels very natural. I bought it directly from the "factory," but I think he has an ebay store these days.

The 7Artisan adapter is cheap, compared to other brands. Some people here like it, and others have returned it. You might try getting one from a seller with return privileges. I suspect you'll figure-out right away if it will work with your setup.

[Dr. G]

Thanks for the info. 

I do have a question.  If I use this with an APO lens, do I lose the Apo characteristic?  The way Apo lenses were explained to me, they are designed to refract the different colors so that the different wavelengths are all aligned properly on the sensor.  If I move the lens further from the sensor I'm assuming some of the APO advantage is gone?  I've always been intrigued by the CV 50 APO and I do a lot of this kind of work, so I'm not sure if it makes sense to pick up that lens in this case.  

[BernardC]

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2 hours ago, Dr. G said:

I do have a question.  If I use this with an APO lens, do I lose the Apo characteristic?  The way Apo lenses were explained to me, they are designed to refract the different colors so that the different wavelengths are all aligned properly on the sensor.  If I move the lens further from the sensor I'm assuming some of the APO advantage is gone?

Technically, lenses are only "apo" at a specific focus distance, or within a small range. For instance, old large format process lenses (used to create newspaper pages) were often APO at 1:1, and this apo-ness came from the fact that they were symetrical (so aberrations cancelled each-other at 1:1).

That's not to say that the lens will stop being good at closer focus. It's supposed to be very good at minimum focus distance, so it will still be good beyond that. It may not be as good as a dedicated macro lens, but that would not matter with most subjects.

[jaapv]

Don’t set too much store by the APO designation. It only means that a lens is corrected for lateral chromatic aberration at three frequencies of the spectrum in the plane of focus. What happens outside those points is completely undefined, so you can have an APO lens with horrific aberrations. With reputable companies like Leica and Voigtländer it is a marketing term for exceptionally well corrected lenses.You can use your lens without worries, with the caveat that it is not designed to be a macro lens, so you may notice a slight drop in quality in general. 

[chris_tribble]

Like the OP I only need occasional macro functionality, so I’ve just ordered this: https://fotodioxpro.com/products/l-35-mcr-af. It only seems to be available through Amazon 🫤.

i plan to try it with APO 35 and 75 lenses (despite some negative concerns re APO lenses used for macro), or with M lenses + Leica M to L adapter. I’ll report back with results.

[Pelu2010]

Panasonic 100 mm Macro. 
Great for macro and for portrait …. 
and you can also panorama with it …

[Pelu2010]

And these extension tubes work perfect for me. 

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And the work with AF and together with the L to M adapter. 

 

[Kristofferpaulsen]

On 3/9/2024 at 7:48 PM, chris_tribble said:

Like the OP I only need occasional macro functionality, so I’ve just ordered this: https://fotodioxpro.com/products/l-35-mcr-af. It only seems to be available through Amazon 🫤.

i plan to try it with APO 35 and 75 lenses (despite some negative concerns re APO lenses used for macro), or with M lenses + Leica M to L adapter. I’ll report back with results.

how'd this go mate?

I ordered an old R macro 100mm and when it came found that the 24-90 actually has closer focussing. guh. 

[01af]

If you want to go just a bit closer than the minimum focusing distance with a 35 mm, 40 mm, or 50 mm lens (as opposed to real macro at 1:2, 1:1, and beyond) then for best image quality from center to edge use an achromatic (i. e. two-element) close-up lens with about +2 dpt. For magnifications of about 1:10–1:2 with a non-macro lens, that will give better image quality than extension tubes.

[dpitt]

2 hours ago, Kristofferpaulsen said:

how'd this go mate?

I ordered an old R macro 100mm and when it came found that the 24-90 actually has closer focussing. guh. 

Macro Elmar 100mm R : smallest = 72 x 106 mm (helical) or 1:3

The Macro Elmarit 60mm will go closer, the smallest is (1:2) 48 mm x 72 mm

On both you can add the universal Macro Adapter R but then you lose focusing to infinity of course.
With the 60mm you will get 1:1 or 24x36 mm, with the 100mm you will reach 1:2 .

Since the Macro Adapter R is not expensive, I would try that first.

Edited June 21, 2024 by dpitt

[Photoworks]

Extention Tubes are not great on SL APO lenses, Never found any good use for it. the Summicron-APO's are not optimized for that, the smear and create all kind of CA

A better choice is using a dedicated apo lens, or a close-up lens in front of the camera.

this is the 50 APO SL with minimum focus distance at F2

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You add the small tube and you get this...

 

This is a close-up lens I got for the Noctilux 50,  it is Sigma AML72-01 Close-Up Lens plus step down ring $23

 

conclusion, forget the tube!

 

[Kristofferpaulsen]

20 hours ago, dpitt said:

Macro Elmar 100mm R : smallest = 72 x 106 mm (helical) or 1:3

The Macro Elmarit 60mm will go closer, the smallest is (1:2) 48 mm x 72 mm

On both you can add the universal Macro Adapter R but then you lose focusing to infinity of course.
With the 60mm you will get 1:1 or 24x36 mm, with the 100mm you will reach 1:2 .

Since the Macro Adapter R is not expensive, I would try that first.

it’s actually been adapted to EF, like a cine conversion. I’ll figure it out. 

[Stuart Richardson]

The 50mm APO Summicron SL focuses very close...up to 0.35m or 1 to 5, which is 120x180mm. I have found that the lens is so good that it is as good as my 120mm APO Macro Elmarit S and 105mm Sigma Macro at those close distances. It is not just macro quality, it is top of the line modern macro quality. According to the MTF's, it is actually better at f2 and .5m than the APO Macro Summarit S is at 5.6 and close distance. I use it for artwork reproduction and studio work all the time. I think it would focus close enough for most food work you would do on a table. The other advantage would be native AF and of course the same otherwordly performance at normal distances.

[dkCambridgeshire]

Bellows are an option when using manual focus lenses for close focus but are not everyone's cuppa tea. This set-up comprises:  Leica SL 601, Novoflex R to L adapter, Leitz R 2x APO extender, Novoflex bellows with R adapter, 1970's Novoflex 600mm 2 element achromat with necessary matching Novoflex tubes & squeeze trigger focus,  Lee lens hood, Jobu gimbal with ARCA plate & Gitzo tripod:

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Mature Male Emperor Dragonfly 

Female Emperor Dragonfly ovipositing 

Female Emperor Dragonfly ovipositing

 

Female Emperor Dragonfly in flight ... it's hovering before ovipositing. 

Effective focal length in all dragonfly pix = 1200mm; bellows enables close focus at 3 to 4 metres subject distance. Fine focus via bellows rack & pinion and camera magnified live view. The 'new' (likely old stock) Novoflex 600mm achromat lens module was a £69 bargain from Ffordes. Novoflex long focus system not so popular nowadays but during the 1960's / 1970's was in common use by sports and wildlife photographers - especially at cricket matches.

BW, dunk 

Edited June 23, 2024 by dkCambridgeshire

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