vintage kinoptik lenses and serial numbers

[hrryxgg]

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hey folks:

i have a kinoptik 40mm/f2 lens that was modified to M mount.  i love it.

the serial number is 48539.

does anyone know how i can search to find what year this was made?

thank you

[Ecar]

You can't. I have tried, to no avail.

A 5-digit s/n, however, suggests it was made in the 1950's. It's probably marked "Focale" as well?  

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[hrryxgg]

mine is not marked focale.  it is apochromatic i think?

i did find this

• Mar 6, 2017

• #6

Chronology
A very useful table of serial numbers year-by-year is given by P-H Pont in his booklet "Chiffres Cles" for the
years 1953-1993, and this is a shortened version since these lenses are not often seen in the UK and the
number produced is relatively limited, which underlines that this is a really prestigious, desireable make. The
number given is the last for the year.
1952 13,000 1955 20,000 1960 35,000 1965 49,000
1970 64,000 1975 84,551 1980 98,515
Lenses made at serial numbers above 40,000 seem to be especially sought after, possibly due to improved
coating. In about 1962 this will not be multicoating in the modern sense but at that time improved coatings
were coming into use

[Ecar]

Many Kinoptik lenses from the 1940's onwards are marked "Apochromat", with or without the addition of "Foyer" (usually earlier) or "Focale" (usually later).

I had seen that chronology, but from my own experience, it doesn't make a lot of sense as it's conflicting with other factors (such as original cine mounts or documentation the lenses came with). For example, according to it, my Apochromat 35/2 s/n 111XXX would have been manufactured sometime in the 1980's, when it's obvious by just looking at it that it's a much earlier lens.

Perhaps the Pont chronology applies to only some lens types?

Other French sources (can't remember where I found them) seemed to indicate that, as a rough rule of thumb 3-4 digits serials spanned the 1930's and early 1940's, while 4-5 digits belonged to the late 1940's-1950's period. However, even this is not accurate: for example, although both my Fulgior 50/1.3 Foyer (but not Apochromat) and my 40/2 Foyer Apochromat have a 4-digit s/n, the former has a higher serial number than the latter, when I know for a fact that the Fulgior was manufactured at least a decade earlier...

Confused? So was I, but after looking for definitive information, I decided to give up on solving the Kinoptik serials mystery.. If you have better luck, please do post your findings here - I know a couple of people who'd be interested.

[JMF]

On 12/18/2023 at 6:03 PM, hrryxgg said:

Lenses made at serial numbers above 40,000 seem to be especially sought after, possibly due to improved
coating. In about 1962 this will not be multicoating in the modern sense but at that time improved coatings
were coming into use

According to some collectors, the earlier lenses are more desirable due to their lack of coating or early type of coating ...

I guess it depends on what look you're after !

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40/2 Kinoptik on Leica CL

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by JMF