Why Does the Leica APO-Summicron-SL 35mm f/2 ASPH Rate Poorly at DXO?

[SodaO]

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On 3/21/2024 at 8:20 PM, Photoworks said:

the 50 SL APO is not "rebadged".

can it be your terminology is mixed up?

Yes, I am aware that the 50 APO is made by Leica, in Germany.  I was referring to the rebadged Sigma and Panasonic lenses (24-70 and 35 and 50 non-APO Summicrons).

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[SodaO]

16 hours ago, SrMi said:

Yes, his was the APO SL Summicron that he got for $350.- on Temu!

🤣

I have no idea what Temu is but $350 would be a fair price for the 50 APO.

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[SrMi]

9 minutes ago, SodaO said:

I have no idea what Temu is but $350 would be a fair price for the 50 APO.

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What kind of post processor are you using to demosaic ?

[jaapv]

And what body do you use it on?  I would have kept it; as the only copy to behave this way it must be worth a fortune on the collector market. 

[SodaO]

31 minutes ago, SrMi said:

What kind of post processor are you using to demosaic ?

That is an unprocessed RAW file from a shot taken purely to test for aberrations.  The Voigtlander 50mm APO does not do this.

[SodaO]

7 minutes ago, jaapv said:

And what body do you use it on?  I would have kept it; as the only copy to behave this way it must be worth a fortune on the collector market. 

SL2-S.  Firmware v6.0.

[LBJ2]

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14 hours ago, jaapv said:

Yes but I would have to search; it was Barnack Berek Blog at the introduction of 601 Given that the newer models behave identically with M lenses we can safely assume that Leica maintained the design. 

Thank you for the reference. But so far haven't been able to find anything about specialized micro lenses on the SL 601 on that blog--but I'll keep looking. 

Back to my original question, I am particularly interested/curious to know if Leica has ever described specialized microlenses on the SL2 or the SL2-S. Last I heard Leica referencing specialized microlens construction was from Stefan Daniel when the M10-R was announced. I don't know, but seems to me if such an important advantage of specialized microlenses were also constructed in the SL2, the SL2-S, or now, the SL3, Leica marketing would not be quiet about that important detail.

[jaapv]

What I see in your example is colour aliasing not fringing which is a demosaicing  error of the software on high-resolving edges. Aperture was notorious for it. That your Voigtländer does not do is only proves that it resolves more fuzzily on a micro level. Try another raw converter. 

[jaapv]

15 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

Thank you for the reference. But so far haven't been able to find anything about specialized micro lenses on the SL 601 on that blog--but I'll keep looking. 

Back to my original question, I am particularly interested/curious to know if Leica has ever described specialized microlenses on the SL2 or the SL2-S. Last I heard Leica referencing specialized microlens construction was from Stefan Daniel when the M10-R was announced. I don't know, but seems to me if such an important advantage of specialized microlenses were also constructed in the SL2, the SL2-S, or now, the SL3, Leica marketing would not be quiet about that important detail.

Only partly answering your question, but Techradar claims that the SL2 has A unique microlens array Scroll down in the sensor specs where they discuss the difference to the S1R. 

[LBJ2]

 

2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Only partly answering your question, but Techradar claims that the SL2 has A unique microlens array

Thank you.

"The sensor [SL2] goes without an optical low-pass filter, but Leica has also made some modifications of its own, among them reducing the number of glass layers on the front surface of the sensor from three to two in order to minimize stray reflections. There’s also a unique microlens array, primarily to ensure better performance when M Mount lenses are fitted via an adaptor (there are also adaptors for R and S system lenses). The SL2 even gets dedicated metering for M lenses."  https://www.techradar.com/reviews/leica-sl2

[SrMi]

40 minutes ago, SodaO said:

That is an unprocessed RAW file from a shot taken purely to test for aberrations.  The Voigtlander 50mm APO does not do this.

You have to demosaic the raw file with something, typically a post processor, e.g., C1, LrC, ACR. Which one did you use?

[SodaO]

5 minutes ago, SrMi said:

You have to demosaic the raw file with something, typically a post processor, e.g., C1, LrC, ACR. Which one did you use?

ACR v16.2

[SodaO]

41 minutes ago, jaapv said:

What I see in your example is colour aliasing not fringing which is a demosaicing  error of the software on high-resolving edges. Aperture was notorious for it. That your Voigtländer does not do is only proves that it resolves more fuzzily on a micro level. Try another raw converter. 

The aberrations are there, exactly same, in the SOOC JPEGs.

[jaapv]

Which runs through the same editing software... If you want to blame it on the lens -I doubt it but that is fine by me-, maybe it was decentered, but that is not conform the general quality.

[SodaO]

17 hours ago, jaapv said:

Which runs through the same editing software... If you want to blame it on the lens -I doubt it but that is fine by me-, maybe it was decentered, but that is not conform the general quality.

I'm not looking at the jpeg in ACR.  The aberrations are there in the camera or in photo viewer in Windows.  I'll ask Leica themselves and get back to you.

[jaapv]

I hope they have an answer. This is not the common purple blooming, but colour aliasing. Lateral CA is unlikely on an APO lens.  

[SodaO]

16 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I hope they have an answer. This is not the common purple blooming, but colour aliasing. Lateral CA is unlikely on an APO lens.  

I agree.  It feels to me like the correction is off.  I've tried opening the same file in Capture One and the result is exactly the same.

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[LBJ2]

23 hours ago, LBJ2 said:

 

Thank you.

"The sensor [SL2] goes without an optical low-pass filter, but Leica has also made some modifications of its own, among them reducing the number of glass layers on the front surface of the sensor from three to two in order to minimize stray reflections. There’s also a unique microlens array, primarily to ensure better performance when M Mount lenses are fitted via an adaptor (there are also adaptors for R and S system lenses). The SL2 even gets dedicated metering for M lenses."  https://www.techradar.com/reviews/leica-sl2

@jaapv

Last night on the SL3 "A Closer Look" Red Dot Forum Live Stream, I asked the following in the LiveChat: 

"LB J2
Does the SL3 have specialized microlenses on the SL3 sensor to support adapting M lenses ?"

Answered by David starting at about 23:21 min mark in the video:

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[SodaO]

Very interesting.  Well done for getting the question in.