Why Does the Leica APO-Summicron-SL 35mm f/2 ASPH Rate Poorly at DXO?

[Chaemono]

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There is absolute no fringing with the Leica SL lenses whatsoever (hardly any with the 50 Summilux-SL) except sometimes for a fraction of a second when the image is opened in LR and then the fringing is gone. If there is software correction, it’s not in the opcodes. In practice it means no fiddling around with the purple or green fringing sliders in LR which can sometimes mess up the rest of the colors.

[jaapv]

That is most likely because it is corrected before demosaicing on the SL( see the Imatest article linked to) I wonder which camera body the poster was using. 

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[Jipster]

On 12/17/2023 at 11:19 AM, LBJ2 said:

Strange DXOMark never updated these results from the initial SL 35/2 APO lens announcement period back in 2019. I've long since forgotten but thought for sure they would have updated results including the SL2 by now.

 Read LUF forum reaction from 2020. 

 

DXO marks depends on the sensor (properties and resolution). It’s not sensor independent. So, if tested on the SL, different than if tested with on the SL3.

[LBJ2]

28 minutes ago, Jipster said:

DXO marks depends on the sensor (properties and resolution). It’s not sensor independent. So, if tested on the SL, different than if tested with on the SL3.

 Correct. I think DXOMark is very well known for their specific on-camera approach to include testing with different camera resolutions in the same system. Yes, lens test results can differ based upon the camera's resolution as DXOMark has presented for many years now. 

However as some of us on this thread are discussing, DXOMark tested the SL 35 APO on a Panasonic camera with some questionable results based upon user experinces and for some reason did not include any test results from any of the Leica SL, SL2, SL2-S cameras to compare. Now we have the SL3 with 60MP so any test results would indeed include the effects of a jump in resolution from the SL3 60MP camera. 

 

[algrove]

Just saw this thread. Why would anyone pay attention to DXO when they rate an APO Leica lens using a Panasonic camera instead of a Leica SL camera?

Thanks for calling out DXO on this one since every Leica APO SL lens I own is super. This now brings into question other DXO testing methods which I read about, but never pay much attention to.

Glad I do not rely on DXO for my decision making.

[Ivar B]

On 3/21/2024 at 1:31 PM, SodaO said:

I returned the 50mm APO Summicron-SL after one day.  The amount of aberrations (stained-glass window effect) between tree branches was almost laughable.  Based on the ridiculous premium for rebadged, average lenses, the weight and heft (and average performance) of real Leica SL glass, I've relegated my SL2-S to adapted M lenses.  I love my M10 and if it weren't for the occassional need for video, would be done with the L mount system.

Do you actually mean Summicron-SL and not APO-Summicron? The latter are most certainly not rebadged, but the Summicron-SL are rebadged Panasonic lenses. That being said, most users praise the quality of these lenses as well. 

[jaapv]

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With Panasonic lenses that are Leica-badged the design is a cooperation between Panasonic and Leica. 

[jaapv]

4 hours ago, algrove said:

Just saw this thread. Why would anyone pay attention to DXO when they rate an APO Leica lens using a Panasonic camera instead of a Leica SL camera?

Thanks for calling out DXO on this one since every Leica APO SL lens I own is super. This now brings into question other DXO testing methods which I read about, but never pay much attention to.

Glad I do not rely on DXO for my decision making.

Panasonic and Leica are part of the L alliance. Lens results should be optimal on all member’s cameras. 

[algrove]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Panasonic and Leica are part of the L alliance. Lens results should be optimal on all member’s cameras. 

Is not the cover glass different to start with between the 2 cameras?

[algrove]

On 3/21/2024 at 8:31 AM, SodaO said:

I returned the 50mm APO Summicron-SL after one day.  The amount of aberrations (stained-glass window effect) between tree branches was almost laughable.  Based on the ridiculous premium for rebadged, average lenses, the weight and heft (and average performance) of real Leica SL glass, I've relegated my SL2-S to adapted M lenses.  I love my M10 and if it weren't for the occassional need for video, would be done with the L mount system.

Kindly confirm you returned the APO SL Summicron. Thanks.

[SrMi]

My experience with lenses that I own and that were tested by DxO does not match DxO ratings.

[SrMi]

2 minutes ago, algrove said:

Kindly confirm you returned the APO SL Summicron. Thanks.

Yes, his was the APO SL Summicron that he got for $350.- on Temu!

🤣

[jaapv]

51 minutes ago, algrove said:

Is not the cover glass different to start with between the 2 cameras?

Not so much the coverglass as the microlenses; the SL series uses ellipsoid ones to accommodate M wideangle lenses.  Of course the results will differ, but all participating brands will optimize the combinations to ensure interchangeability within the system. Different is not the same as worse or better. 

[LBJ2]

40 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Not so much the coverglass as the microlenses; the SL series uses ellipsoid ones to accommodate M wideangle lenses.  Of course the results will differ, but all participating brands will optimize the combinations to ensure interchangeability within the system. Different is not the same as worse or better. 

Is there some official Leica source that describes specialized ellipsoid microlenses on the SL2 or SL2-S cameras? 

[algrove]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

Yes, his was the APO SL Summicron that he got for $350.- on Temu!

🤣

I bet he's just a troll.

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, LBJ2 said:

Is there some official Leica source that describes specialized ellipsoid microlenses on the SL2 or SL2-S cameras? 

Yes but I would have to search; it was Barnack Berek Blog at the introduction of 601 Given that the newer models behave identically with M lenses we can safely assume that Leica maintained the design. 

[jrp]

The DXO reports are not consistent with ordinary experience.  The APO 35mm is not on a par with the 35mm f2.8 Sony/Zeiss lens (I have both).

[SrMi]

6 hours ago, jaapv said:

Yes but I would have to search; it was Barnack Berek Blog at the introduction of 601 Given that the newer models behave identically with M lenses we can safely assume that Leica maintained the design. 

There could be some differences as the BSI sensors handle steep incident angles better than FSI sensors.

Edited March 23, 2024 by SrMi

[jaapv]

Quite. But that will only improve the performance. 

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[jaapv]

Anyway, I think that the real problem is an overly simplistic system of rating used by DXO. Lens testing and evaluation is far more complicated than throwing everything into a cauldron and distilling a number:

https://opg.optica.org/ao/fulltext.cfm?uri=ao-56-20-5661&id=368998