CV Skopar 28mm, Type I or II?

[setuporg]

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Can anyone who handled both confirm what the differences are?  Are they only ergonomic, so optically they are the same lens?  Is one kind brass and heavirt than the other?  Is black and silver only color difference in each kind?

[Malabito]

ergonomics, close up focusing distance, one is 0.5 the other 0.7 and one is a bit heavier. Optics are supposed to be the same. 

[105012]

Also Type 1 seems to have a more practical focus throw for those who like to focus-by-feel (without relying on the rangefinder). The Type 2 has the modern (1960's onwards 😀 ) customer driven disease of a short focus throw to make it 'faster' (not!) to focus...

[setuporg]

1 hour ago, Malabito said:

ergonomics, close up focusing distance, one is 0.5 the other 0.7 and one is a bit heavier. Optics are supposed to be the same. 

Which kind is 0.5 and which one is 0.7?

[burchyk]

Type 1 MFD is 0.7m, which is a pro for those of us who shoot film. Aperture ring rotates while focusing and vice versa. Infinity lock. Uncommon filter diameter.

I'd probably get Type 1 if I went with the Skopar, but ended up with Ultron.

[venom]

On 11/30/2023 at 4:57 AM, setuporg said:

Can anyone who handled both confirm what the differences are?  Are they only ergonomic, so optically they are the same lens?  Is one kind brass and heavirt than the other?  Is black and silver only color difference in each kind?

The 28 Ultron II is better in every way and also tiny. I would get the Ultron if I were you. The feel is as good as a Leica lens. 

[setuporg]

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2 hours ago, venom said:

The 28 Ultron II is better in every way and also tiny. I would get the Ultron if I were you. The feel is as good as a Leica lens. 

I read that the OOF background is busy on Ultron, is that true?

[venom]

15 hours ago, setuporg said:

I read that the OOF background is busy on Ultron, is that true?

To be honest I never paid attention to it when I shot it because I’m always at f4-f8. The wider the lens the busier the background will be especially if you’re not focusing on something close. Wide angle lenses are really made to get as much in focus as possible. 

in the end 28mm was too wide for me so I sold it. I’m on 35mm now and I use it so much more (because I’m normally a 50mm guy). 35mm can be shot like a 50mm when you don’t have enough room so that makes it the perfect 50mm companion. The frame lines are a lot easier to see also. 

shame because the Ultron II is possibly Voigtlander’s finest lens (aside from the APO). I had the black paint brass version. Handling that lens is like butter. So I didn’t like letting it go, and I can feel the difference between it and the 35 Nokton v2. The focusing is nowhere near as buttery. But I guess it has to be a bit stiffer to be accurate at f1.4. Also the focusing tab is too shallow so it makes my finger slip out. Otherwise a great companion to the Summicron. 

when I shot Fuji I had a 16mmf1.4 lens. It was enormous but when focusing on something close the background melted away. Not so much if you focused on something far. It’s just a thing with wide lenses. 

P.S: the one thing that always annoyed me about the Ultron was the 0.5m focus. Useless to me and confusing because there is no stop at 0.7m. I would never want to own another close focus lens. Even Leica ones with the detent at 0.7m. That detent makes it impossible to finely adjust focus at 0.7m. You end up rocking back and forth. No thanks. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by venom

[fotografr]

15 hours ago, setuporg said:

I read that the OOF background is busy on Ultron, is that true?

Bokeh judgement is such a personal thing that your question is hard to answer. What some people find pleasant, others will find distracting or harsh.. Personally, I find the OOF areas of the Ultron II asph to be rather nice. I've been using one for over a year and can't think of a single time when I thought the OOF rendering wrecked one of my images. Below are a couple of samples I just now shot. All were focused at the MFD with the aperture at f2.0.

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Edited December 1, 2023 by fotografr

[venom]

@setuporg

Anything will blur at 0.5m wide open. To have a more real world look at the bokeh from this lens I suggest you read this article 

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-voigtlander-vm-28mm-2-0-ultron-type-i/

it has mfd, mid distance and longer distances. At f2 and 28mm is hard to get any isolation through blur if you’re not really close to your subject. You’ll need a 28 Summilux for that. 

at f2 mid distances is sort of there but a longer distances things just appear all in focus anyway depending on the shot.

Also at f2 this lens vignettes a bit heavily. So unless you want a vignette I would shoot f2.8 and above. 
 

I just never saw the point shooting this lens at f2. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by venom

[fotografr]

1 hour ago, venom said:

@setuporg

 

I just never saw the point shooting this lens at f2. 

Faster shutter speed, lower ISO, shallower DOF.  If none of that matters, save the money and buy a slower lens. There are probably people who don't see the point of shooting the 50mm 0.95 wide open. 

Here's a review comparing the Ultron I to the Ultron II and the 28 Summicron. Note that this reviewer prefers to shoot wide open. 

https://photosbyjohnathan.wordpress.com/2022/02/07/voigtlander-28mm-f-2-ultron-ii-vs-ultron-i-vs-summicron-asph/

Edited December 1, 2023 by fotografr

[venom]

2 hours ago, fotografr said:

Faster shutter speed, lower ISO, shallower DOF.  If none of that matters, save the money and buy a slower lens. There are probably people who don't see the point of shooting the 50mm 0.95 wide open. 

Here's a review comparing the Ultron I to the Ultron II and the 28 Summicron. Note that this reviewer prefers to shoot wide open. 

https://photosbyjohnathan.wordpress.com/2022/02/07/voigtlander-28mm-f-2-ultron-ii-vs-ultron-i-vs-summicron-asph/

With lenses, colors and other characteristics aren’t the same. Each lens is different at every aperture. 
 

for instance, I would choose the 28 Cron over the 28 Elmarit even though I rarely if ever shoot below f2.8. Those two lenses produce different looking images. As it’s the case with the 28 Cron and the 28 Ultron. The Cron is still more pleasing to my eyes because it has less contrast. Images overall look gentler. The Elmarit for instance can be quite sterile/clinical looking. 
 

if funds permitted it and I liked the 28mm focal length, I would actually buy the 28 Summaron. This is my 28 of choice. It has the apertures I use the most, it’s tiny, and it has a lot of charm and character. (Unlike the cheap TTArtisan version that doesn’t produce the same images at all). 

I would shoot at high ISO. The high ISO B&W from the M10R look like film. It’s beautiful. ISO6400 is awesome. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by venom

[fotografr]

57 minutes ago, venom said:

 

 

if funds permitted it and I liked the 28mm focal length, I would actually buy the 28 Summaron. This is my 28 of choice. It has the apertures I use the most, it’s tiny, and it has a lot of charm and character. 

I would shoot at high ISO. The high ISO B&W from the M10R look like film. It’s beautiful. ISO6400 is awesome. 

The 28 Summaron is definitely a very sweet little lens. I had one for about a year. The two reasons I didn't keep it were that it was so prone to flare it was necessary to always use the large, sharp cornered shade (which kind of negated the small size of the lens); and the other reason is that everything was always in focus which got a little boring (to me). For someone who likes everything in focus, it's a wonderful little lens. 

[fotografr]

For my purposes, this is enough reason to shoot the 28 Ultron II asph at f2.0. I was already at ISO 6400 and the performer was quite animated so my shutter was 1/250th. If I hadn't shot wide open, I'm sure I wouldn't have had very many sharp images from this concert last night.

M10M/28 Ultron II asph

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[jja]

On 12/3/2023 at 9:59 AM, fotografr said:

For my purposes, this is enough reason to shoot the 28 Ultron II asph at f2.0. I was already at ISO 6400 and the performer was quite animated so my shutter was 1/250th. If I hadn't shot wide open, I'm sure I wouldn't have had very many sharp images from this concert last night.

M10M/28 Ultron II asph

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That's a banger of a photo.  Did you adjust vignetting or crop?

[fotografr]

2 hours ago, jja said:

That's a banger of a photo.  Did you adjust vignetting or crop?

Thank you. I did crop in order to get rid of some equipment on the front of the stage, but it wasn't very much. I didn't adjust the vignetting. That was the effect of the lighting.

[burchyk]

Coming back to this thread almost a year later.

I've acquired the Heliar 40mm f/2.8 since, which shares the mechanical design with the Type 1. Must say that I really enjoy using it on M-A and would recommend considering it in favour of Type 2. Got Heliopan 34-39 step-up filter ring for convenience. Don't find the rotating aperture ring a bid deal. Overall it takes some getting used to compared to lenses with the focus tab, but after that it is a nice tactile experience. The small barrel diameter does not make a difference when mounted, but saves some space in the pocket. I often pair it with 21 f/4 Color Skopar, and the set is unbelievably portable.