M10 raw files render yellow as orange

[Uzi]

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I understand that the JPEG from the camera is just one interpretation of the colours, but it always tends to be much more accurate in terms of rendering yellow than the raw files. I’ve tried opening up the raw files in Lightroom, Capture One and Darkroom, and in all three cases I see very similar results.

 

I guess my question is if this is a known behaviour with the M10 sensor, and if there’s an easy way for me to correct this in post.

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[jaapv]

Well, you’ll have to adjust your camera profile. This is a matter of correcting the defaults in Lightroom. The camera is just fine There are good tutorials on Lightroom basics on YouTube. 

[dpitt]

White is not always neutral white. In some cases you are better of with gray or even black. As long as it is neutral, it will work. And of course you can adjust afterwards.

In your sample, there are at least 2 light sources, the room and the space further behind the corridor. Try sampling in both locations and see what works best as a start.

If you want to make it easier to balance, take a digital grey card with you. And include it in the first shot of a series in the same light. Then in LR you can copy over the settings sampled from this card.

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by dpitt

[paulleica]

I have been using dxo Photolab for a long time. Apart from the fact that this RAW converter has the best colour management, there is a profile for the M10. It converts the colours very accurately. I haven't used Lightroom for a long time.

[Adam Bonn]

FWIW on a 1 image sample size, as mention about this looks like WB to me.

The 'yellow is orange' shot looks to have more red in several areas (face of the man, the white parts of the graffiti and all of the tertiary colours*)

The SOOC jpeg and the DNG are processed differently (think of the camera jpeg as another RAW app).

When a DNG is created the RAW data isn't white balanced, but the file has a tag denoting the neutral (grey) of the RAW data.

In LR, this tag (AsShotNeutral) is then mathematically converted (well mapped really) into the colours that adobe works with.

A bit like Fahrenheit to Celsius or KPH to MPH the RAW app says 'oh I need to base my colours around this being the native neutral colour recorded in the RAW data'.

The camera itself, DxO, C1, LR/ACR etc etc will all deploy some derivative of the above process to decide the colours.

 

*The M9 crowd (of which I'm a member) wax lyrical about those saturated, magenta tinged tertiary colours 😅

 

[Uzi]

Thanks for the replies. This isn’t just white balance as far as I can tell because I’m not able to match the yellows just by tweaking temperature, but I think I can probably get the look I want using some of the colour grading tools in Capture One.

I mainly just wanted to find out if this is a known behaviour with the M10 sensor.

[adan]

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On 11/21/2023 at 12:09 AM, Uzi said:

I mainly just wanted to find out if this is a known behaviour with the M10 sensor.

Not really.

1) Many things happen to a digital image between when it leaves the sensor, and when you see it. The camera has other electronics that process what comes off the sensor. The image-processing software in your computer processes the data that the camera electronics have processed and saved to the SD card.

And the image-processing software uses the settings you adjust (or don't adjust).

Here's a more complete rundown on the whole imaging chain, in which the sensor is only the beginning (and far removed from the final outcome)..

The orange yellows may come from any or all of these intermediate steps, in between the sensor and your screen.

2) If anything, what I get from my M10 files (and have from most digital Leica Ms over the years) are yellows that are slightly lacking in orange (just a bit too greenish - good for foliage, but bad for people pictures).

But that isn't a "known sensor behaviour" either (Leica has used 4 or 5 different sensor makers). It may come from anywhere in the imaging chain.

However, I do fix it in the same way you plan to use with C1 - I go to the color-grading panel in Adobe Camera Raw, and shift the hue of yellow a bit away from green and towards orange, when needed.