35mm Summicron 8 Element vs. V4 King of Bokeh

[RMF]

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I’ve owned both minty versions of the 8e and a German v4, I’d honestly take the 8e if they were of equal condition, the build quality of the 8e is perhaps best in class, and at wide open its beautiful and controlled rendering puts it well above the rather mundane v4 (IMHO).  

 

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[Pyrogallol]

Just arranged to buy an 8 element!

[a.noctilux]

14 hours ago, Pyrogallol said:

Just arranged to buy an 8 element!

👌

M2 or M3 type ?

[grahamc]

15 hours ago, RMF said:

I’ve owned both minty versions of the 8e and a German v4, I’d honestly take the 8e if they were of equal condition, the build quality of the 8e is perhaps best in class, and at wide open its beautiful and controlled rendering puts it well above the rather mundane v4 (IMHO).  

 

Another vote for the 8e here, I love mine.   

I've grown to love the more mundane ways (and beautiful colours) of the v4 also, but I think you are spot on here 

Edited November 21, 2023 by grahamc

[Smudgerer]

19 hours ago, Cronilux said:

@Smudgerer the one meter min focus distance is a no go for me.

 

 

To be honest I find there's little real difference in using a lens that focuses to 0.7 meters or one that stops at 1 meter MFD, especially so with a digital camera with it's ability to crop between the FoV of the two MFD's without much or any degradation in the image, also going closer with a lens like a 35mm brings more noticeable wide angle distortion into play. But of course personal preference as to what kind of photography you pursue is what determines one's choices of gear anyway.

[Cronilux]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Smudgerer:

To be honest I find there's little real difference in using a lens that focuses to 0.7 meters or one that stops at 1 meter MFD, especially so with a digital camera with it's ability to crop between the FoV of the two MFD's without much or any degradation in the image, also going closer with a lens like a 35mm brings more noticeable wide angle distortion into play. But of course personal preference as to what kind of photography you pursue is what determines one's choices of gear anyway.

If you are too close to focus, you are too close to focus. No way around that. For environmental portraits I tend to go close for more dramatic pov. Another point is image compression. It´s simply totally different to go closer or to just crop. A big crop won´t make 50mm out of 35mm, ever.

[Pyrogallol]

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6 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

👌

M2 or M3 type ?

M2 with removable bayonet mount, allowing screw mount use.

I have screw and bayonet f2.8 Summaron lenses which are reputed to be as good as the Summicron.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Pyrogallol

[a.noctilux]

1 hour ago, Pyrogallol said:

M2 with removable bayonet mount, allowing screw mount use.

I have yet seen 8 element 35 Summicron without removable bayonet mount.

For me as LTM user was bonus also.

Side note, the M3 goggled same lens can not be RF use with screw mount Leica, even if the bayonet mount is also removable.

[Smudgerer]

6 hours ago, Cronilux said:

If you are too close to focus, you are too close to focus. No way around that. For environmental portraits I tend to go close for more dramatic pov. Another point is image compression. It´s simply totally different to go closer or to just crop. A big crop won´t make 50mm out of 35mm, ever.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough for you, I wasn't talking about making a 50mm PoV from a 35mm PoV image, and sure you are right you can't successfully do that, I was talking about 35mm / 35 mm shots with one lens having a closer MFD than the other, cropping the wider image will be as close as damnit to the other and the crop wouldn't be that drastic..................But again as I also said it all comes down to personal choices anyway, there are few "absolutes", whatever floats your boat is fine.

[hansvons]

7 hours ago, Cronilux said:

A big crop won´t make 50mm out of 35mm, ever.

It does. But you will lose tons of character because much of what we love about vintage lenses doesn't happen at the centre. That's why a Steel Rim, a Summicron V1, you name it, loses a lot on a digital Leical CL as the CL's APS-C sensor crops the regular full-frame 35mm field of view (approx 55 degrees) to a 50mm field of view (approx 40 degrees). The centre of the images will look identical; changing the focal length is nothing more than zooming, which is the same as cropping.

Edited November 21, 2023 by hansvons

[Cronilux]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb hansvons:

It does.

Absolutely not. Where does it get the same compression from? The focal length is not changeable through cropping. 
 

@Smudgerer if I am too close to focus, then cropping a blurry photo won’t get me any result.

Like I said, I like to get close. 0.7m is the bare minimum I need and want. 
 

The perspective will also change pretty drastically by getting 30cm closer with a 35mm. Not so much on longer lenses, but one 35mm more than enough to make me avoid an MFD of 1 meter.

[Smudgerer]

I think your mind's made up on this no matter what other people may have to contribute to the discussion you started here, so why ask?.........I'm done with it.

[Cronilux]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Smudgerer:

I think your mind's made up on this no matter what other people may have to contribute to the discussion you started here, so why ask?.........I'm done with it.

I never asked for the Summilux. I asked for Summicron V1 vs V4. So, if we could stay on topic it would be helpful. Some managed to do so. 

[Smudgerer]

On 11/16/2023 at 10:33 PM, Cronilux said:

So, I am in need of a 35mm for my M10-P and I am undecided between these two Summicrons. The 8 Element (v1) or the King of Bokeh (V4).I already owned a V4 and liked it, but I am normally more drawn to lenses that have a bit more glow. 
My only 35mm is the Voigtlander Nokton Classic II SC atm. While I love it‘s size and the glow I get from it, I am not always happy with the colors.

So what would be your choice out of the two or would you even consider a 35Lux pre asph? 

This is how a 'Lux option came into the thread........But as I said, let's just leave it there, ok?

[Pyrogallol]

On 11/21/2023 at 4:20 PM, Pyrogallol said:

M2 with removable bayonet mount, allowing screw mount use.

I have screw and bayonet f2.8 Summaron lenses which are reputed to be as good as the Summicron.

Arrived today, looks very similar to the f2.8 Summaron but with more glass.

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[hdmesa]

On 11/22/2023 at 10:01 AM, Cronilux said:

Absolutely not. Where does it get the same compression from? The focal length is not changeable through cropping. 
 

@Smudgerer if I am too close to focus, then cropping a blurry photo won’t get me any result.

Like I said, I like to get close. 0.7m is the bare minimum I need and want. 
 

The perspective will also change pretty drastically by getting 30cm closer with a 35mm. Not so much on longer lenses, but one 35mm more than enough to make me avoid an MFD of 1 meter.

The look of the subject with 35mm at most distances when cropped to 50mm is the same as 50mm. The difference will be you can't emulate the background blur of a wide open 50mm f/2 by cropping to a 50mm FOV from a 35mm f/2 lens shot wide open.

That said, if someone wants the unique look of close-up portraits with a mild wide angle like a 35mm lens, lens distortion/field curvature becomes a unique defining factor that will be lost when stepping back and cropping.

[Cronilux]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb hdmesa:

The look of the subject with 35mm at most distances when cropped to 50mm is the same as 50mm. The difference will be you can't emulate the background blur of a wide open 50mm f/2 by cropping to a 50mm FOV from a 35mm f/2 lens shot wide open.

That said, if someone wants the unique look of close-up portraits with a mild wide angle like a 35mm lens, lens distortion/field curvature becomes a unique defining factor that will be lost when stepping back and cropping.

You mean the size of the subject. The look won´t be the same due to different compression between 35mm and 50mm. It´s not only the background blur. You can never crop one focal length and get another focal length by doing so. 35mm will always be 35mm. If I can´t get further away, cause there is a wall behind me, I won´t even be able to focus with the pre ASPH.

[hdmesa]

20 minutes ago, Cronilux said:

You mean the size of the subject. The look won´t be the same due to different compression between 35mm and 50mm. It´s not only the background blur. You can never crop one focal length and get another focal length by doing so. 35mm will always be 35mm...

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by hdmesa

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[hdmesa]

16 minutes ago, Cronilux said:

...If I can´t get further away, cause there is a wall behind me, I won´t even be able to focus with the pre ASPH.

That's a different issue of course, and I agree that long MFDs are very limiting, at least for me they are. If I were to own the pre-ASPH v2 again, it would be to use adapted to a non-M camera using a macro adapter that let me focus closer.

[venom]

On 11/17/2023 at 4:33 AM, Cronilux said:

So, I am in need of a 35mm for my M10-P and I am undecided between these two Summicrons. The 8 Element (v1) or the King of Bokeh (V4).

I already owned a V4 and liked it, but I am normally more drawn to lenses that have a bit more glow. 
 

My only 35mm is the Voigtlander Nokton Classic II SC atm. While I love it‘s size and the glow I get from it, I am not always happy with the colors.

So what would be your choice out of the two or would you even consider a 35Lux pre asph? 

Considering you have the Nokton then if you want more glow charm I would go for the Steel Rim. If that’s too much then the Summicrons with the weird aperture tab could be the answer. The v4 I would consider but actually side by side it’s not that far off from the ASPH version. 

Personally I would just get a brand new ASPH 35f2 and call it a day. Summicrons are the best daily lenses. I would stay away from the Canadian made v4 crons.