Will the SL3 have a global shutter?

[algrove]

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Sony just announced a remarkable A9 III with global shutter. Its capabilities are impressive to say the least. It is 24MP FF stacked sensor, just right for me since who needs 60MP when we have used 24 MP cameras for years without complaint.

This could be revolutionary if Leica adopts this sensor. Imagine 1/80,000 shutter speed and flash sync without limit. Shoots at 120fps with no black out. Did I mention no black out.

Edited November 9, 2023 by algrove

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[ajmarton1]

I doubt it.  That Sony is intended as a pro sports wildlife camera.  I have the a1 for wildlife photography and will be buying the new lighter / faster AF 300mm f2.8 lens the minute it's available for my next Botswana trip.  

[frame-it]

50 minutes ago, algrove said:

Sony just announced a remarkable A9 III with global shutter. Its capabilities are impressive to say the least. It is 24MP FF stacked sensor, just right for me since who needs 60MP when we have used 24 MP cameras for years without complaint.

This could be revolutionary if Leica adopts this sensor. Imagine 1/80,000 shutter speed and flash sync without limit. Shoots at 120fps with no black out. Did I mention no black out.

Leica seem to going the higher-MP-marketing-way..

anyway they're usually the last ones to arrive at the party as far as sensor tech goes

unlikely the SL3 could take shots like this

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by frame-it

[JohnathanLovm]

For SL3-S might have good chance, SL3 is no. I think the M11, Q3 and SL3 is part of the Leica x Lumix collaboration, at this point is too late to change sensor without redesign the whole shutter and firmware. 
 

Also Sony usually have a generation exclusive when come to their sensor. You’re gonna wait 2-3 years for other brand pickup.

[Guest]

My bet is for SL3 Leica will go 'in the opposite direction' [of speed] and use this Sony sensor: https://www.sony-semicon.com/files/62/pdf/p-13_IMX455AQK_BQK_ALK_Flyer.pdf

The marketing message will focus on 16 bit color readout (vs. 14 bit current generation), "more accurate and true to life colors" - definitely sounds like something that is more aligned with the Leica brand and installed base.

The ultra-high speed sports shooting scenario would require 1/ next generation of the PDAF used by Panasonic S5II, 2/ lenses with different focus motors, 3/ at the very end of priorities, a global shutter would also add value.

[frankchn]

Yeah the IMX455 is the sensor used in the M11, Q3, and A7R4/5 cameras, and the SL3 will likely have the same sensor with a different optical stack and microlens array in front of the sensor.

[Chuck Albertson]

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How the f**k would we know?

[Simone_DF]

8 hours ago, algrove said:

Sony just announced a remarkable A9 III with global shutter. Its capabilities are impressive to say the least. It is 24MP FF stacked sensor, just right for me since who needs 60MP when we have used 24 MP cameras for years without complaint.

This could be revolutionary if Leica adopts this sensor. Imagine 1/80,000 shutter speed and flash sync without limit. Shoots at 120fps with no black out. Did I mention no black out.

More realistically in the SL5, if we're lucky. Sony will likely keep this tech for itself at the beginning, and anyway the starting price of the sensor will be too high. Eventually it will trickle down to cheaper models, and that's when we can start hoping it will be implemented in a Leica.

[Simone_DF]

6 hours ago, frankchn said:

Yeah the IMX455 is the sensor used in the M11, Q3, and A7R4/5 cameras, and the SL3 will likely have the same sensor with a different optical stack and microlens array in front of the sensor.

I doubt it. The SL line has been marketed also to the video folks, at least compared to the M11 and Q3. The IMX455 has a slow readout speed and it's not great for video.

[LocalHero1953]

5 hours ago, Chuck Albertson said:

How the f**k would we know?

Because all members here are either directors of technology companies or senior strategic tech consultants.

😉

Edited November 9, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[Leicaflex]

If Sony has to charge 7000€ for the new A9III (that’s 2000€ more than the SL2-s) a Leica with the same sensor won’t be cheaper. 

The Sony is impressive, from a pure numbers and technology standpoint, but I struggle to believe that the real world benefits of the new sensor are worth the price. The reduced ISO range from 250-25400 seems to indicate, that there is at least a small disadvantage in image quality with the global shutter sensor.

[algrove]

11 hours ago, JohnathanLovm said:

For SL3-S might have good chance, SL3 is no. I think the M11, Q3 and SL3 is part of the Leica x Lumix collaboration, at this point is too late to change sensor without redesign the whole shutter and firmware. 
 

Also Sony usually have a generation exclusive when come to their sensor. You’re gonna wait 2-3 years for other brand pickup.

If Sony keeps it in house for like 2 years as a few suggest, then it will differ to the SL4S earliest.

[algrove]

6 hours ago, Chuck Albertson said:

How the f**k would we know?

We all know that we are consumers and for Leica not much more than customers.

I just like 24MP sensors.

[BernardC]

35 minutes ago, Leicaflex said:

The reduced ISO range from 250-25400 seems to indicate, that there is at least a small disadvantage in image quality with the global shutter sensor.

That, and reduced dynamic range, are the reasons why we haven't seen many global-shutter cameras in the past. It's not new technology, it just wasn't suited to high-quality imaging in the past (I haven't read any reviews of the new a9 yet).

[BernardC]

11 hours ago, JohnathanLovm said:

Sony usually have a generation exclusive when come to their sensor.

Sony's consumer division buys their sensors from Sony's Semiconductor Group. Just like anyone else can. Sony often releases the first iteration of a new sensor family, but not always. Nikon and Fuji have also released new sensors, as has PhaseOne. Arguably, the M11 sensor is an exclusive, even if no one has confirmed that it comes from Sony Semi (it will say so on the chip itself).

Obviously, Sony Semi's main customers are smartphone vendors. I doubt Sony Consumer ever gets an exclusive, unless Samsung, Apple, and Xiaomi weren't interested.

[LocalHero1953]

The first global shutter in a consumer grade camera gives you bragging rights, and for Sony that would be good business. Leica's USP is more oriented to enthusiast photographers (even If they also market to brand-conscious rich collectors), and a global shutter would not suit them if it came with a deterioration in colour, DR and low light performance.

I also look forward to reviews of the new Sony beyond nailing the eye of a ferret at 100m.

[trickness]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Because all members here are either directors of technology companies or senior strategic tech consultants.

😉

And here I thought most of us were underwear models…..

[Dr. G]

2 hours ago, Leicaflex said:

If Sony has to charge 7000€ for the new A9III (that’s 2000€ more than the SL2-s) a Leica with the same sensor won’t be cheaper. 

The Sony is impressive, from a pure numbers and technology standpoint, but I struggle to believe that the real world benefits of the new sensor are worth the price. The reduced ISO range from 250-25400 seems to indicate, that there is at least a small disadvantage in image quality with the global shutter sensor.

There is one significant real world advantage to anyone that's shot in LED light.  Global shutter will eliminate banding at all shutter speeds.  Flash sync at all shutter speeds is also a nice feature to have.  Whether it's worth the price of admission is up for debate.

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[BernardC]

56 minutes ago, Dr. G said:

Global shutter will eliminate banding at all shutter speeds.  Flash sync at all shutter speeds is also a nice feature to have.

It eliminates banding within single images, but you'll still see flicker artifacts if you shoot a series. The exposure will change with each frame. You see this all the time in video footage of modern car headlights: they seem to slowly modulate on and off.

Studio flashes often have relatively long "on" times at full power, so that will require some new processes. Traditionally, for daylight fill, the flash exposure and shutter speed (with a leaf shutter) are independent of each other. Now, you'll get less flash exposure if you go from (e.g.) 1/8000 to 1/16000. It will depend on the model of flash and the power setting, of course. Thankfully, digital lets you review your shots immediately. Obviously, that's only an issue if you shoot wide-open with fast lenses in full summer daylight. We're talking "Noctilux on the beach" fill-flash situations. You can already do that with an ND filter, but GS provides an extra option, in case you want to shoot at 1/40,000 and still use flash.

[Leicaflex]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Dr. G:

There is one significant real world advantage to anyone that's shot in LED light.  Global shutter will eliminate banding at all shutter speeds.  Flash sync at all shutter speeds is also a nice feature to have.  Whether it's worth the price of admission is up for debate.

Sure, the A9III can do things other cameras can‘t. 
But as you said, the features it brings are „nice to have“, but no „must haves“.

It‘s a bit like Sony answered a question nobody asked. But it‘s a great marketing coup to have the first global shutter camera (or at least the second after the PIXII).