How many and which M10 and SL variants do I need or do I wait for the M EVF as a supplement to the M10?

[st4u]

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Dear LEICA community,

I really appreciate the many well-founded contributions in this forum.
As a result, I gradually acquired a very nice, almost daily used (Mandler) collection, additionally 8 elements, rigid, Canon 0.95, Contax G45, Elmarit 24 and apo M 35.
The M10-D and SL 601 make me very happy and were deliberately purchased when everything about the M10 (except the M10-R) and SL(2(-s)) was already available.

I have the option of purchasing a silver M10-R, but also a silver SL2. Both new and really beautiful, so far I've always had black cameras. From a collector's point of view, I should buy it immediately, but I am a great user and enjoyer of beautifully produced photos and the increase in value is just a pleasant side effect that can justify the high purchase prices by maintaining its value. I say that to lie to myself.

How much will I recognize the errors of the beloved vintage lenses and suffer from them with the LEICA Look by revealing their peculiarities, or also called image errors?
The 47 MP of the SL2 seems to be a burner compared to the SL 601.

How disruptive is using a M10-R in parallel with my M10-D because of for me unnecessary buttons and screen? Why a second M and then not knowing which one to take? Which of you uses M10-D in parallel with M10-R and according to what criteria is the camera chosen for the day?

The SL(2) is different, because it's a different system to the M. The beloved 4 buttons of the SL seem to be easier to be given up for the SL2. But Will I give up the great colours of the SL 601, similar to the M10 non R?
Let's remain realistic, the high ISO of up to 6,400 and the dynamic range are more than sufficient for the two similar Maestro II sensors of the M10 and SL 601. In the old film days there were also great photos from star photographers who have now passed away. And DxO Pure 3 in post-processing is sensational, referring to old analog films.

Btw a still alive photograph star tells always using min. 12.500 ISO on his SL 601 to get the desired film grain simulation…
What should I exchange for a new purchase? Something always has to go in order for something new to come: The SL 601 with warranty until 03/24 and the beautifully serviced bit coded Noctilux 1 V4, which is massively exaggerated and I use it too rarely?

Which of you has or had the M10 non R and the SL 601 and exchanged for the M10-R or/ and SL2 and was still happier despite the (faulty or peculiar) old glass, also giving up the 4 buttons?

Fortunately, with the M11, LEICA is taking me in a direction where my GAS is becoming less and less important. If I find something “new” I’m more looking for exotic M (converted) vintage glass.
Probably the only additive M camera will be an M with EVF (without IBIS). With that in mind, maybe I should just stay happy with my current equipment and wait two years for an M EVF and will buy at most a very cheap, but no less excellent Sigma SL 45mm as my first and only – because small – SL lens?

Really unimportant questions these days, I know. But photography as cultural property, especially today, still allows us to depict our sometimes beautiful world...
I look forward to your answers and wish you peace and joy!

regards Chris

 

[a.noctilux]

Hello Chris,

🫠

G.A.S.

if you have available money (that I don't doubt), just buy it (them).

[hepcat]

Chris, you are fortunate to be able to afford the equipment you're looking at.   It sounds for all the world like you are actually pretty happy with what you have, so my question is this:  what are you chasing that you don't already have?  Are 24mp insufficient for what you do for some reason?  You haven't really articulated any particular reason why you want to switch up your gear. 

I have been a Leica M shooter since 1974 and LOVE my M bodies.  That said, I am relatively brand-agnostic.  I don't buy Leica just because it's Leica. I look for results.  As a result, I have an M10-P and I'm using 1950s Canon glass almost exclusively on it.  Rather than an SL2, I bought a Lumix S1 to use with my R glass.   They are both more competent than I am and produce results I'm pleased with.   

So are you results-oriented, or brand-oriented, or features-oriented or some combination of those?

Edited November 2, 2023 by hepcat

[la1402]

"I have the option of purchasing a silver M10-R, but also a silver SL2. Both new and really beautiful, so far I've always had black cameras. From a collector's point of view, I should buy it immediately, but I am a great user and enjoyer of beautifully produced photos and the increase in value is just a pleasant side effect that can justify the high purchase prices by maintaining its value."

From a collectors point of view, you should buy neither. None of those bodies are a collectible today or will be a collectible in the future, and they do lose value. There are some rare exceptions ith limited editions like the M10 R BP, but the standard digtial bodies will lose value. If you buy Leica lenses used, and keep them for a long time, they will keep their value.

Edited November 2, 2023 by la1402

[st4u]

@ hepcat... great wording “brand agnostic” and You totally got me!
I am puristically reduced, result-oriented, but with great tactile passion = my understanding of usable luxury. As a child of the seventies I love everything solid about devices.
In this respect, the Leica SL 601 is on a par with a monolithically milled structure. The SL2(-s) already consist of two aluminum parts. The black M11 no longer has any brass (and no base plate) and goes as RF the wrong direction... I completely understand that you are using the “old” Canon and R glasses.
Thanks for the healing. Nothing will get away from the hard-saved collection.

@ la1402... Indeed, I bought most of the beads during the boring Corona period, when people were obviously selling great items because of the impending end of the world.

@ a.noctilux... and you were one of the guilty parties along with Adan, IkarusJohn, lct, jaapv, Jeff S, Steven, scott kirkpatrick and a few others even crazier than I thought they could be. Because of your rightly enthusiastic and well-founded contributions to the Mandler lenses...

The question still remains regarding G.A.S.: M10-R Silver OR SL2 Silver? 🙂

 

[Jeff S]

On 11/3/2023 at 7:27 AM, st4u said:

@ a.noctilux... and you were one of the guilty parties along with Adan, IkarusJohn, lct, jaapv, Jeff S, Steven, scott kirkpatrick and a few others even crazier than I thought they could be. 

 

If you mean GAS, that’s of course relative. My serious photo adventures began in 1974, with some definite periods of GAS along the way, trying out many different formats (35mm to 4x5), brands (11) and models. But since my first Leica M in the 80’s, I’ve never owned, or needed, more than 3-4 M lenses and one or two M bodies (will be there again after sale of my mostly idle M9M).  Don’t have or want any of the current APO M close-focus lenses, nor any M11 variant.  None would improve my pics or prints. But I get the gear thing: been there, done that (ironically before I ever joined a forum).  These days I’d rather sell than buy camera gear… although a new computer, screen and printer is on the horizon…. a bigger bang for my buck.

More directly to your first post, I moved from the M9M and M10 to the M10M and M10-R (BP). The latter is rarely used, as 95% of my current work is B&W. An SL2 and 24-90 addresses complementary needs. I sold the SL75 and will soon sell the 90-280; not enough use, and the one zoom is heavy enough.
 

Who knows what the future will hold? But I surely won’t conduct a forum survey to decide. 
 

Jeff

[chris_tribble]

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Ah go on.  Get the M10-R. Beautiful shutter, exceptional highlight retention, very good (IMHO) low light performance, and it’s the last of its kind… you won’t regret 🙂

[cboy]

You wait for the Leica with a global shutter that Sony has just announced with the A9 III. It means it's almost 99% likely you'll see either a EVF M or SL-(R)angefinder in the future. 

[Jk1002]

I think SL2 is fine but unless you invest in the glass and want autofocus no point. And SL3 should come some time next year. I would buy the lenses for it now and upgrade the body if that is a path you want to take(preowned seems to go up in price when new cameras are launched)

For the M10-R, I find live view helpful when focussing wide open or in lowlight and this would be my decision maker for taking one or the other.

I have the M262, so yes a screen to review pictures but no live view and I tend to reach for the R more and more since I got it and I would expect that you get used to the few extra buttons over comfort compared to the M10-D
 

[JRWhite]

Yes, silver. I very much prefer silver. And +1 for the M10R in silver. Love mine!

That said, I'm about to pull the trigger on a used SL2 in black. And black only because of price (half of new) and I can't find silver at that price point. However, knowing how I operate, I can envision a future where I upgrade, at some point, to a silver SL3 (a camera that has not been announced and that I know nothing about, pretty lame huh?).

Finally, although I like using the Visoflex 020 on my M10R on certain occasions, I love looking through an OVF and using the range finder. Not sure what to think about an M-EVF. Sounds too much like an SL series camera to me. Now, if Leica can pull off what Fuji did with the X100 / X-Pro series and include a combined OVF/EVF, I'm all in on that (as long as it retains RF focusing)! And while they are at it, maybe they can include the in-camera post processing capability Fuji employs as well. 

[hepcat]

On 11/10/2023 at 7:39 AM, JRWhite said:

Now, if Leica can pull off what Fuji did with the X100 / X-Pro series and include a combined OVF/EVF, I'm all in on that (as long as it retains RF focusing)! And while they are at it, maybe they can include the in-camera post processing capability Fuji employs as well. 

FWIW, the X-Pro1 was the camera that sent me back to Leica in 2012.  I used the X-Pro 1 and found that using autofocus, as high as 2 out of 3 images were out of focus using the OVF as there was no way to know exactly where the focus point was.   I much prefer and OVF to an EVF, even with today's higher resolution EVFs.  Anyway, that hybrid viewfinder just didn't work out well for me, and that's when I bought my first M8 and subsequently an M9-P.