helged Posted January 9, 2024 Share #41 Posted January 9, 2024 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 5 hours ago, Sohail said: Another 90 APO at f/2. Decent bokeh I'd say. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Agree, the bokeh is ok here. But sometimes the oof rendering is on the busy side (at least for me); depending on the distance between the in- and out-of-focus regions. With business see the background in post 19 above, or as illustrated in the image below (particularly the branches in the upper, right part of the image), shot with SL90 @f2 and SL2-S. Clearly, bokeh depends on the eyes that see; but nervous rendering is something that I dislike. Edited January 9, 2024 by helged 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 9, 2024 Posted January 9, 2024 Hi helged, Take a look here Late to the 50 Summilux-SL Party. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
helged Posted January 9, 2024 Share #42 Posted January 9, 2024 (edited) SL50Lux is a lovely lens. All at f1.4 with SL2-S. Apologise for being a little doggie-centric in the images below.... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited January 9, 2024 by helged 14 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/383494-late-to-the-50-summilux-sl-party/?do=findComment&comment=4979867'>More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 9, 2024 Share #43 Posted January 9, 2024 I agree about the occasional nervous bokeh with the Apo-Summicron-SL 75 & 90. This is a harsh criticism, as I find the bokeh in both pretty good compared to most other lenses; but I am finding the Summilux-SL 50 to be just that bit better (and the Summilux-M 75 is also good this way). And in photographs of people I don't want anything in the background drawing attention away from the subject. I also agree this is a very personal view of such matters - that which I would rather avoid may be fully acceptable to others. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail Posted January 9, 2024 Share #44 Posted January 9, 2024 I'm not sure it's lens-specific but more scenario-specific. Here's another couple of images I shot with the 90 APO. Here you have near and far background elements: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The bokeh is pleasing I'd say. 10 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The bokeh is pleasing I'd say. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/383494-late-to-the-50-summilux-sl-party/?do=findComment&comment=4980009'>More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 9, 2024 Share #45 Posted January 9, 2024 (edited) 36 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said: I agree about the occasional nervous bokeh with the Apo-Summicron-SL 75 & 90. This is a harsh criticism, as I find the bokeh in both pretty good compared to most other lenses; but I am finding the Summilux-SL 50 to be just that bit better (and the Summilux-M 75 is also good this way). And in photographs of people I don't want anything in the background drawing attention away from the subject. I also agree this is a very personal view of such matters - that which I would rather avoid may be fully acceptable to others. This is my opinion also - while the out of focus treatment may be more pleasing with some lenses, the point is how the subject is treated. The problem is where the bokeh distracts from the subject, particularly in an unpleasant way. This equally applies to the roll off from in focus to out of focus. The flower in @helged’s second image in post #42 is a case in point - you can see in all the images how nicely the in focus areas gently go out of focus away from the subject. But in the flower image, as the in focus area blends into the rest of the flower, the image becomes confused (it may just be the posted image - the original may be lovely). Conversely, @Sohail’s images in post #44, taken with the 90 APO (SL?) have pleasant boken, but the separation from the subject to the background is sharp, to the point of being crisp (probably just a composition issue, rather than anything to do with the lens). This is not a criticism, but just that the images seem a little surreal. I don’t know if the 50 Summilux-SL would have been smoother. No criticism intended, as I really like all the images. Edited January 9, 2024 by IkarusJohn 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 9, 2024 Share #46 Posted January 9, 2024 I shall wait for a bright sunny day and take shots with all the relevant lenses where I think it makes a difference. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail Posted January 10, 2024 Share #47 Posted January 10, 2024 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 8 hours ago, IkarusJohn said: This is my opinion also - while the out of focus treatment may be more pleasing with some lenses, the point is how the subject is treated. The problem is where the bokeh distracts from the subject, particularly in an unpleasant way. This equally applies to the roll off from in focus to out of focus. The flower in @helged’s second image in post #42 is a case in point - you can see in all the images how nicely the in focus areas gently go out of focus away from the subject. But in the flower image, as the in focus area blends into the rest of the flower, the image becomes confused (it may just be the posted image - the original may be lovely). Conversely, @Sohail’s images in post #44, taken with the 90 APO (SL?) have pleasant boken, but the separation from the subject to the background is sharp, to the point of being crisp (probably just a composition issue, rather than anything to do with the lens). This is not a criticism, but just that the images seem a little surreal. I don’t know if the 50 Summilux-SL would have been smoother. No criticism intended, as I really like all the images. Yes, they were taken with a 90 APO SL. You're right about the separation. It's almost like they're cardboard cut-outs. It's partly because of the bright colours and a hint of rim light but more to the point I think the bokeh of the 90 APO SL is certainly, at least to my eyes, very pleasant. Here's another with foreground bokeh: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited January 10, 2024 by Sohail 6 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/383494-late-to-the-50-summilux-sl-party/?do=findComment&comment=4980887'>More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 10, 2024 Share #48 Posted January 10, 2024 It's a nice sunny winter's day, so I have taken some comparison shots with the Summilux-SL 50, Apo-Summicron-SL 75 & 90, Summilux-M 75 and, because I have it, the Vario-Elmar-SL 24-90, All taken with the SL2-S on a tripod in our garden. The sun is directly behind me. I used the widest aperture available, and auto-exposure (highlight priority). (To those who say I should have set them all to the same aperture, I would reply: that is not the point: the discussion here is about which lens to choose for the most neutral/receding/un-nervous bokeh). Focus is on the nearest part of the blue wheelie bin. The images were imported to Lightroom Classic, Adobe Standard profile. I set white balance in LR to Daylight, applied a medium tone curve and used the Auto exposure settings. Clarity, Texture, Saturation, Vibrance, Sharpening and Noise Reduction were all set to zero. The Summilux-M was correctly recognised in camera and in Lightroom. First, the Summilux-SL 50, both full frame and cropped to a 75mm FL, without moving the camera. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/383494-late-to-the-50-summilux-sl-party/?do=findComment&comment=4981515'>More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 10, 2024 Share #49 Posted January 10, 2024 Apo Summicron-SL 75 and 90. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/383494-late-to-the-50-summilux-sl-party/?do=findComment&comment=4981524'>More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 10, 2024 Share #50 Posted January 10, 2024 Summilux-M 75 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/383494-late-to-the-50-summilux-sl-party/?do=findComment&comment=4981525'>More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 10, 2024 Share #51 Posted January 10, 2024 Vario-Elmar 24-90. @ 50 f/3.6 full frame @ 50 f/3.6 cropped to 75mm view @ 77 f/3.9 full frame Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/383494-late-to-the-50-summilux-sl-party/?do=findComment&comment=4981526'>More sharing options...
helged Posted January 10, 2024 Share #52 Posted January 10, 2024 3 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said: It's a nice sunny winter's day, so I have taken some comparison shots with the Summilux-SL 50, Apo-Summicron-SL 75 & 90, Summilux-M 75 and, because I have it, the Vario-Elmar-SL 24-90, All taken with the SL2-S on a tripod in our garden. The sun is directly behind me. I used the widest aperture available, and auto-exposure (highlight priority). (To those who say I should have set them all to the same aperture, I would reply: that is not the point: the discussion here is about which lens to choose for the most neutral/receding/un-nervous bokeh). Focus is on the nearest part of the blue wheelie bin. The images were imported to Lightroom Classic, Adobe Standard profile. I set white balance in LR to Daylight, applied a medium tone curve and used the Auto exposure settings. Clarity, Texture, Saturation, Vibrance, Sharpening and Noise Reduction were all set to zero. The Summilux-M was correctly recognised in camera and in Lightroom. First, the Summilux-SL 50, both full frame and cropped to a 75mm FL, without moving the camera. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Interesting - and thanks! Sitting with a cell phone only, and looking at the background blur, I would say 75Lux-M is most smooth and SL90 least so. But that the lenses are more similar than not. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail Posted January 10, 2024 Share #53 Posted January 10, 2024 (edited) 4 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said: It's a nice sunny winter's day, so I have taken some comparison shots with the Summilux-SL 50, Apo-Summicron-SL 75 & 90, Summilux-M 75 and, because I have it, the Vario-Elmar-SL 24-90, All taken with the SL2-S on a tripod in our garden. The sun is directly behind me. I used the widest aperture available, and auto-exposure (highlight priority). (To those who say I should have set them all to the same aperture, I would reply: that is not the point: the discussion here is about which lens to choose for the most neutral/receding/un-nervous bokeh). Focus is on the nearest part of the blue wheelie bin. The images were imported to Lightroom Classic, Adobe Standard profile. I set white balance in LR to Daylight, applied a medium tone curve and used the Auto exposure settings. Clarity, Texture, Saturation, Vibrance, Sharpening and Noise Reduction were all set to zero. The Summilux-M was correctly recognised in camera and in Lightroom. First, the Summilux-SL 50, both full frame and cropped to a 75mm FL, without moving the camera. Thanks for sharing these interesting comparisons. What are your findings? For me, the images (for the SL lenses) don't scream smooth or nervous. I guess because I'm not entirely sure what "nervous bokeh" actually means. At the most, I'm seeing differences in contrast. Edited January 10, 2024 by Sohail 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 10, 2024 Share #54 Posted January 10, 2024 Thanks, Paul. Without the side by side comparison, it would be difficult to distinguish them! The APO 75 & 90 are obviously similar in the sense that both are taken at f/2. The Vario-Elmarit is surprisingly good (I have mine boxed up to list for sale - maybe I should reconsider). What interests me is how good the 75 Summilux-M is. If you zoom in on the bin lid, you can see how the 50 Summilux-SL and 75 Summilux-M are both very sharp, and how they roll off to out of focus at the rear of the lid - both very gentle, but the handles on the rear of the lid in the 75 Summilux image are more blurred than the 50 Summilux image. I guess this reflects the greater compression of the 75 over the 50? Both images are very smooth beyond that. Not selling my 75 Summilux! Best John 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 10, 2024 Share #55 Posted January 10, 2024 2 hours ago, IkarusJohn said: Not selling my 75 Summilux! Nor mine. I wouldn't have got the Summilux-SL 50 if I didn't also want autofocus quite often. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 10, 2024 Share #56 Posted January 10, 2024 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sohail said: Thanks for sharing these interesting comparisons. What are your findings? For me, the images (for the SL lenses) don't scream smooth or nervous. I guess because I'm not entirely sure what "nervous bokeh" actually means. At the most, I'm seeing differences in contrast. I agree the Apo-Summicron-SL lenses are very close to the Summilux-SL 50. As for 'nervous bokeh', for me it is where there are sharp edges in the scene which should be blurred when out of focus, but still seem to create faint sharp edges between blurred areas, rather than blurred right across. I see it very slightly more in the Apo-Summicrons than in the Summilux-SLs. The Summilux-M shows it quite strongly in the fence panels but with less contrast. But in these shots they are nit-picking differences! I shall look for other opportunities for comparisons, preferably with human heads to make it easier to judge the fall-off. Edit. There is quite a difference in the rendering of the vertical black drainpipe on the left side of the timber greenhouse. The Summilux-SL 50 (and Summilux-M 75) blur it much more smoothly than the Apo-Summicron-SLs. Edited January 10, 2024 by LocalHero1953 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planetwide Posted January 10, 2024 Share #57 Posted January 10, 2024 SL & SL90mm Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/383494-late-to-the-50-summilux-sl-party/?do=findComment&comment=4982615'>More sharing options...
Planetwide Posted January 10, 2024 Share #58 Posted January 10, 2024 Another Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/383494-late-to-the-50-summilux-sl-party/?do=findComment&comment=4982617'>More sharing options...
Planetwide Posted January 10, 2024 Share #59 Posted January 10, 2024 Back to the 50mm SL Summilux Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/383494-late-to-the-50-summilux-sl-party/?do=findComment&comment=4982619'>More sharing options...
Sohail Posted January 11, 2024 Share #60 Posted January 11, 2024 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Shot an hour ago downtown Abu Dhabi. The 90 APO is also, I think, a very cinematic lens. 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Shot an hour ago downtown Abu Dhabi. The 90 APO is also, I think, a very cinematic lens. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/383494-late-to-the-50-summilux-sl-party/?do=findComment&comment=4983266'>More sharing options...
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