M11-D?

[Datsch]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

41 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

I’m using Fotos and Lightroom on anM4 based iPad Pro. It’s great!

Thanks for sharing this. So there is a way to have Fotos on desktop/laptop ... Is it purely via Wifi or does Fotos work when connected via USB cable?

Edited June 4, 2024 by Datsch

[RobW0]

25 minutes ago, Datsch said:

Thanks for sharing this. So there is a way to have Fotos on desktop/laptop ... Is it purely via Wifi or does Fotos work when connected via USB cable?

I do not believe it is possible to run Fotos on an Apple desktop/laptop. It will only run on a iPhone or iPad. The iPad Pros have gotten more powerful in the recent generations. 

[jonoslack]

48 minutes ago, Datsch said:

Thanks for sharing this. So there is a way to have Fotos on desktop/laptop ... Is it purely via Wifi or does Fotos work when connected via USB cable?

It works with both cable and WiFi. I’ve been experimenting doing first stage selections on Fotos on the iPad and then sending the selects to Lightroom for processing. It’s working, but early days 

[Datsch]

12 hours ago, RobW0 said:

I do not believe it is possible to run Fotos on an Apple desktop/laptop. It will only run on a iPhone or iPad. The iPad Pros have gotten more powerful in the recent generations. 

Oh I see, you're quite right -- I scanned the sentence, saw the word 'Pro' and took it to be "MacBook Pro" but I see now @jonoslack said iPad Pro -- sometimes you see what you want to see even if its wrong! 😃

Sorry for the confusion

Edited June 5, 2024 by Datsch

[Knorp]

Leicarumors seem to have a link to M11-D User Manual: https://leicarumors.com/2024/06/04/here-is-the-entire-leica-m11-d-user-manual.aspx/

[fenykepesz]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Datsch:

Oh I see, you're quite right -- I scanned the sentence, saw the word 'Pro' and took it to be "MacBook Pro" but I see now @jonoslack said iPad Pro -- sometimes you see what you want to see even if its wrong! 😃

Sorry for the confusion

you know, @Datsch @RobW0 @jonoslack @setuporg @evikne and all others here, i very very much hope Leica FOTOS will at some point also come out as a desktop version, especially now as the M11* family finally allows connecting to the device via cable and MTP/PTP - just like many other mobile-Apps whose scopes were enhanced through their desktop versions such as Signal or wireguardVPN and many other more or less useful software.

and i hope so even more that Wetzlar decides to make its fingers schmutzig for an equivalent Linux version - i am faithfullestly married to UNIX for over 30y.  i am sure that there are quite a few photographers out there in the huge Leica world that daily ride on some form of Linux distro who would love to try such a linux software.

on top of that, ironically, we shall not forget that our much loved digital M* cameras are more than likely true to the heart real Linux beasts running on an embedded flavour thereof !

does Wetzlar even listen to such jabber ? it seemed to me quite deaf recently when it deprived the new m11d of that much-loved thumb rest thingy that some of us were desperately crying about...

[Sgp]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hello, folks. Usually a lurker, but wanted to drop in on the M11-D discussion as I'm hoping to pick one up myself. 

 

I'm also sad that the traditional thumb rest isn't on the camera. My only guess is that fewer moving parts mean fewer broken pieces, but for a small production batch I think they should have kept it. Another theory is there's a higher production run of the M11-D than the previous D series and the lack of thumb rest may make that more affordable/easier to produce. Either way, I might get one of them IDS Foldable Thumb Grips if I can justify the price as I think it'd suit the camera more than my regular one. 

 

Regarding availability, I'm checking all the time. But does anyone have any idea how quickly these sell out? Back when the M10-D was being sold I wasn't in the market for one so I didn't experience the release situation. I'm in the UK and hoping I don't miss it or struggle.

[AndreasG]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb fenykepesz:

and i hope so even more that Wetzlar decides to make its fingers schmutzig for an equivalent Linux version

Would be too nice, but I seriously doubt it will come- the niche of the niche of the niche.

[Datsch]

On 6/6/2024 at 10:01 AM, Sgp said:

. But does anyone have any idea how quickly these sell out?

I think the M-D and the M10-D were standard production models. I know the M-D was produced for about two years.

The M11-D is rumoured to be a special or limited edition, which I take to mean they will make a specific number. For the M60 that number was 600 units for example. The M11-D is on or around the 70th anniversary of the M, so that number could be 700. I think it unlikely to be 7000 as that is a LOT of M's of any flavour to sell... Or Leica could simply not say how many, that's fine too.

700 units at £$EUR10k apiece is perhaps 700k net profit to Leica, perhaps not enough ... I would be hoping to sell at least as much as the M10-D did (perhaps 2000) if not significantly more ....

I would chat with your local dealer, and see if they are running a waiting list for these that you could go on, perhaps for a deposit, perhaps not. My two favourite dealers here down South say they have stopped doing that these days, and I will just have to place an online order when the M11-D becomes officially available and hope I am early ...

Having said that, I might also wait a bit for any teething problems to resolve and get one of the later production runs ...

So, to answer your actual question, no idea really , sorry ... 😃

Edited June 7, 2024 by Datsch

[Sgp]

Thanks for your thoughts! I hope it's not TOO limited edition as I really just want the camera as a tool rather than some resale investment or collection. I dont want to overpay purely on the scarcity. 

I think similar to you though,  think Leica are missing potential profit at no benefit to them if they produce less than 1000 units (even at a higher price).

 

There's a store a city away from me but I reckon I'll just keep my eyes peeled online and if for whatever reason I miss out, then I miss out. I have the money but if the camera swoops in at thousands more than anticipate then I'm already totally fine to remove myself from the idea of buying one - and live out my days with my trusty M6 and M10-R.

 

 

 

[pippy]

2 hours ago, Datsch said:

...The M11-D is on or around the 70th anniversary of the M, so that number could be 700. I think it unlikely to be 7000 as that is a LOT of M's of any flavour to sell...

It would be a lot of an M-D type of camera but I'm not so sure it's unusual for a 'regular' Digi-M.

OK; I know production figures for the M9 / M9-P cameras, being the first Full Frame Digi-M which was available, might not be representative but FWIW...

M9 production took place between 2009 and 2012 and production of the M9-P went hand-in-hand with the M9 for 2011 / '12. There are no figures for the M9 which I've seen for 2009 or 2011 but there are figures for all types for 2010 and 2012 apart from one batch of Black Paint M9-P bodies in 2012. Those figures which are available make for impressive reading;

M9 : 2009 = uknown; 2010 = 38,940; 2011 = unknown; 2012 = 31,339+

M9-P : 2011 = 30,876; 2012 = 77,690+.

Even without the numbers for two out of the four years of M9 production that's still a staggering 178,845 cameras (at the very least) in four years.

As you know, Datsch, there were c. 1,700 M-D Typ-262 bodies and over 2,000 M10-D made. With all the interest in these models in the 'Used' market perhaps Leica will release more than might be imagined!

Philip.

Edited June 7, 2024 by pippy

[Sgp]

Cool insights @pippy!!

 

Yeah, I do wonder if Leica seizes this opportunity. History shows more people want these M-D bodies than maybe they originally anticipated. The lack of the "winder" thumb rest to me might be one clue that they're producing more. If I was Leica and I was figuring out ways to cut down manufacturing - it'd be by removing that. (But I'm not Leica and I wish it had that thumb rest).

[fenykepesz]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb pippy:

As you know, Datsch, there were c. 1,700 M-D Typ-262 bodies and over 2,000 M10-D made

i thought that just 1500 M10-Ds reached the market, though initially years ago i had heard numbers like 1800.  but more recently i read via several sources consistently about 1500 M10-Ds... ?  anyway, the difference is negligible, while we are still faraway from those tenthousands of the general Ms you had counted, @pippy !

[pippy]

36 minutes ago, fenykepesz said:

i thought that just 1500 M10-Ds reached the market, though initially years ago i had heard numbers like 1800.  but more recently i read via several sources consistently about 1500 M10-Ds...

With the exception of the original screenless camera - the Edition 60 - it is VERY tricky to know with any degree of accuracy how many of the 'D' cameras have been made.

What has been compiled from serial numbers noted in the relevant M10-D thread we know that bodies can be found in 29 distinct batches of '100-off' serial numbers. If all 100 cameras in each batch was a 10-D then, obviously, there will have been 2,900 M10-D cameras made. The problem is that we don't know whether any of the '100-off' batches contained fewer than 100 examples or even if the 100-off batch contained models other than the D...

Here is the link to the thread. Latest number-count (AFAIK) is in post #74

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/324287-m10-d-production-numbers/page/4/#comments

There is the very same situation with the earlier M-D Typ-262 where there are 14 batches noted but, again, were there 100 M-D cameras made in each batch?

But yes; in comparison with the 'more-than-likely' 200,000 M9 bodies made the 'D' cameras are in the Hen's Teeth category...

Philip.

Edited June 7, 2024 by pippy

[IkarusJohn]

With the M Edition 60, the camera (or at least the top deck, bottom deck, leather and the lens barrel and hood) were made specifically for the camera out of stainless steel.  Most of the rest of the camera was the standard M(240),  with the LCD removed and stand alone software.

The M-D and the M10-D were not. In the main, they used the standard M(240) and M10 bodies - same topdeck, bottom deck, button layout etc, which presumably brought the cost per unit down considerably.  It is interesting that Leica made these cameras, as despite the enthusiasm for the M60, for a speciial edition, it didn’t sell well.  If you took the list price of an M-P and 35 Summilux FLE, the M60 was actually a good price, but it was a slow seller.  I got mine at a discount.

Yet, Leica agreed to make the M-D and then the M10-D, but not as specials - just adapting the P versions of the standard camera, with the bare minimum of changes.  The M10-D could have been further refined, in my view.

What is interesting about the M11-D (assuming it’s real) is that it is not using the M11-P body.  The top deck is different, and there seem to be other changes from the standard (a lot to read from a graphic, I know).  That would seem to suggest that the M11-D is either a special edition, or it is being made in larger numbebrs.  Watch out for the price, though …

[Sgp]

Okay. Now you’re scaring me 🥲💸

[fenykepesz]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Giacomo Busoni:

The price is 9,500 euros. 

...according 'Steven'

Edited June 7, 2024 by fenykepesz

[Sgp]

.

Edited June 7, 2024 by Sgp

[Datsch]

So let's get over the 'no screen so it should be cheaper' jokes -- people don't seem to say, no bayer filter, so the M11-M should be cheaper ...

There are quite a lot of new parts and tooling requirements to make an M11-D:

• New top plate
• New rear plate
• New rear 'leather' cutout pattern
• New rear ISO dial
• Extensive new software for Fotos, for firmware, for OVF display readouts,
• New manual/user guide

I would say that for all that, keeping the price the same as the M11-M makes the M11-D quite the bargain ...   🙃

Just for comparison if the M11-D is actually EUR9500 as rumoured, that puts it just a little higher than an M11-M

• Leica Store Amsterdam prices today: M11-P EUR8950    M11-M EUR9450
• Leica Store London Mayfair M11-P £8000  M11-M £8300

There are M-Ds for sale now at £4000 which is almost the same as their price new on launch in 2016 (£4600) ... unreal, as digital cameras plummet in price normally. M240s can be had for £2000 so even in the rarefied world of Leica the -Ds hold their value insanely well. 

In fact, the money is better off in the M11-D than in the bank  (OK, I am just trying to sell the idea to myself now ...😂.)

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[elmars]

How do you know that?