Q3 or Sony A7CR

[idusidusi]

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A friend has suggested I look at the Sony in preference to the Q3. Anyone any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

[liggy]

It's not a completely unreasonable suggestion.  

I'd stick with the Q2/Q3 but I already have an A1 for fast shooting/autofocus/tracking/tele usage.  If it's your only camera and you want more than just 28mm then I think it's definitely worth considering.

61MP.  Best subject recognition in the business.  Plenty of choices for good glass but strangely enough there is no real Sony lens that offers up 1.7 28ish FL like the Q series lens.

The downside of the A7Cr is a substandard EVF and ergonomics/UI that likely will not match the Q3.  Totally depends on your use case and other cameras in your kit.

I love my Sonys and my Q2.  Different tools for different jobs.

[idusidusi]

2 minutes ago, liggy said:

It's not a completely unreasonable suggestion.  

I'd stick with the Q2/Q3 but I already have an A1 for fast shooting/autofocus/tracking/tele usage.  If it's your only camera and you want more than just 28mm then I think it's definitely worth considering.

61MP.  Best subject recognition in the business.  Plenty of choices for good glass but strangely enough there is no real Sony lens that offers up 1.7 28ish FL like the Q series lens.

The downside of the A7Cr is a substandard EVF and ergonomics/UI that likely will not match the Q3.  Totally depends on your use case and other cameras in your kit.

I love my Sonys and my Q2.  Different tools for different jobs.

Interesting thanks. I have a VLUX-5 which I appreciate for the 400mm telephoto end and weight. The Q3 would be as my every day camera, but then some of the criticisms of my friend make me think whether he is right. The biggest thing he mentions from reading is that it seems the stabilisation on the Q3 is not so effective at speeds of less than 1/60th sec. I have been unable to ascertain whether that is true or not. If I did go with the Sony I would have the FE 50mm F1.4 GM  + 24mm f/2.8 G as my only lenses since the VLUX-5 covers the telephoto range very nicely. On the other hand the Q3 has cropping in camera to 90mm. I remember from past Sony's the ergonomics/UI were not to my liking......

[liggy]

1 minute ago, idusidusi said:

Interesting thanks. I have a VLUX-5 which I appreciate for the 400mm telephoto end and weight. The Q3 would be as my every day camera, but then some of the criticisms of my friend make me think whether he is right. The biggest thing he mentions from reading is that it seems the stabilisation on the Q3 is not so effective at speeds of less than 1/60th sec. I have been unable to ascertain whether that is true or not. If I did go with the Sony I would have the FE 50mm F1.4 GM  + 24mm f/2.8 G as my only lenses since the VLUX-5 covers the telephoto range very nicely. On the other hand the Q3 has cropping in camera to 90mm. I remember from past Sony's the ergonomics/UI were not to my liking......

Tough call.  The latest versions of the UI are much better than the older ones.  The ergos of the A7CR are reputed to be better than prior models as well.  Personally I don't think the Q is all that great to hold without the thumb grip but others will obviously disagree.

The new 50 1.4 GM is a cracking lens.  If I didn't already have the 50 1.2 I'd add it to the kit in a heartbeat.  Haven't shot the 24G lens but would highly recommend the 24 GM lens.  At 28MM I'm not sure stabilization is as crucial as it would be at longer focal lengths. 

Personally I'd just run the ISO higher and use genoise software to clean up the image.  

The AI trained subject recognition of the A7R5 is really something to behold.  Very impressive.  My best shooting bud has one and we trade cameras once in a while.  

[idusidusi]

1 minute ago, liggy said:

Tough call.  The latest versions of the UI are much better than the older ones.  The ergos of the A7CR are reputed to be better than prior models as well.  Personally I don't think the Q is all that great to hold without the thumb grip but others will obviously disagree.

The new 50 1.4 GM is a cracking lens.  If I didn't already have the 50 1.2 I'd add it to the kit in a heartbeat.  Haven't shot the 24G lens but would highly recommend the 24 GM lens.  At 28MM I'm not sure stabilization is as crucial as it would be at longer focal lengths. 

Personally I'd just run the ISO higher and use genoise software to clean up the image.  

The AI trained subject recognition of the A7R5 is really something to behold.  Very impressive.  My best shooting bud has one and we trade cameras once in a while.  

That is as I think stabilisation is more crucial at the longer lengths. Indeed tough call, and I have a Q3 on order, but I am in two minds now.

[liggy]

You'll have a great kit regardless - Q3 or A7CR.  That's a nice problem to have.

To make things even more weird - I'm completely loving the Sony 20-70 F4 lens.  Sharp, compact and really nice to have that wide end covered and mild tele up to 70.  You can also easily shoot the A7CR in crop mode which gives you IIRC 26mp / 105mm effective focal length.  Much better IMO than cropping the Q3.

Clearly you give up the nice bokeh and close focus of the Q if you go that route.  

I see some cool cars on your site - 20mm can be very handy for shooting cars.  GL with your choice.

[colonel]

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I have had the A7C. It’s a great camera and the II will be better but it’s a completely different experience from the Q2 (or Q3). The Q with a 1.7 lens is smaller, better colours and sharper. Also the handling is much nicer. If you want changeable lenses then it’s better but that’s not the point of a Q.

Edited September 3, 2023 by colonel

[CalStanford]

Not sure what's so great about the A7CR. Yes it has the same sensor as the Q3 but so does the 4 year old A7 R IV. If the sensor was the only thing, we could have bought this thingie back in 2019 already.

The EVF and back panel display are straight up 2010 tech. Really really bad for a $3000+ body-only camera.

But the biggest issue for me is what lens to slap on. There's no good E-Mount lens for wider angle low aperture like the 26mm f1.7 Summilux we pretty much have on our Qs. There's the 28/f2 from Sony that's super old and way too soft for 61MP. There's some 35mm options but that's not that wide anymore. And then there's the Zooms but those weigh 500g+ and are often F4. 

Sony doesn't have cool pancakes like Nikon's 40mm f2 or 26mm f2.8. Nor ones like the Canon 28 f2.8.

 

The aforementioned FE 20-70mm F4 G is indeed neat but it's not Q3. It's F4 and it's 500g. That plus the body itself and we're at +50% Q3 weight already.

I was waiting for Sony to come out with an RX1R3. Slightly larger body, add IBIS or lens stabilization. Change the sensor up to the newer 61MP. Bit bigger battery. New lower power processor and displays. Basically update the tech since the eight years of RX1R2 release. Boom. But they abandoned the RX series. The A7C series isn't a replacement. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by CalStanford

[Knipsknecht]

The tempting point on the Sony is the small size of the camera, latest tech built in and the ability to use different lenses. But, personally I would use only small and compact lenses on it like the Sigma contemporary i-series (which I already use in L-Mount on my Lumix S5). Big and heavy f1.4 lenses look (and probably feel) a little awkward on this tiny body.

The Q3, on the other hand, offers a well rounded package and the ability to crop the hell out of every photo one takes. Additionally, I really like the tilting screen of the Q3 much more than the flip-out-screen of the Sony (my S5 has a flip-out-screen,too, and it’s my main criticism of this camera). And last but not least, the Q3 has a much better EVF than the Sony.

Personally I think it all depends on your individual use case and if you like or dislike the flippy screen and the viewfinder. If you want to use the camera for very different use cases, say sports and wildlife (birds in flight) as well as landscape, street and travel, then the Sony with different lenses seems to be the more practical solution. But if you rarely need long telephoto lenses for things like wildlife or fast paced sports, I think the Q3 could be the better choice.

[idusidusi]

1 minute ago, Knipsknecht said:

But if you rarely need long telephoto lenses for things like wildlife or fast paced sports, I think the Q3 could be the better choice.

I identify with this. Also I could carry the VLUX-5 and Q3.

BUT for a bit less money I could go for: 

FE 24mm F1.4 GM
FE 50mm F1.4 GM

Alpha 7CR

I am tempted both ways as I often go out with one camera/one lens. The car events I go to would be FE24-50/A7CR OR Q3

For other things like stationary motorbikes  FE24-50/A7CR OR Q3

For zoos/wildlife/sports VLUX-5

 

[idusidusi]

4 hours ago, liggy said:

I see some cool cars on your site - 20mm can be very handy for shooting cars.

Thank you!

[Knipsknecht]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb idusidusi:

[…] BUT for a bit less money I could go for: 

FE 24mm F1.4 GM
FE 50mm F1.4 GM

Alpha 7CR […]

Comparing sizes of cameras and lenses - Q3 vs. Sony a7cr

… of course it is your choice, but in this case I would go with the Q3😅.

[idusidusi]

5 minutes ago, Knipsknecht said:

Comparing sizes of cameras and lenses - Q3 vs. Sony a7cr

… of course it is your choice, but in this case I would go with the Q3😅.

Thanks for the reality check on sizes on that link. I have to admit that the Q3 looks svelte in that image by comparison, I can also crop in camera to 90mm, before I would want to get the VLUX-5 out for longer mm to 400. 

[idusidusi]

Thank you everyone for all the input and thoughts. I had wavered and realistically think I will stick with my Q3 order. I do like the simplicity of Leica's design ethos less buttons is more. Although the Pana-Leica VLUX-5 is not like that, I rarely need to delve into the menu or press buttons.

The Q3 in my view needs either the thumb addition or the handgrip, so the handgrip it is for me.

I hope to be happy with occasional 90mm crop and Topaz Photo AI.

[Voxen]

5 hours ago, idusidusi said:

A friend has suggested I look at the Sony in preference to the Q3. Anyone any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

It depends, do you want a computer or a camera?

[nariza7]

As a sony user and Leica Q3 owner whose focus is on family photos/videos, the a7cR and Q3 both are viable cameras in my opinion. These would be some of the points/reasoning when I mentally compare them:

1. Q3 has 8k while a7cR does not (though it has the a7rv sensor apparently)
2. Q3 video stabilization is not really that good, especially if you move around. I'm assuming the a7cR's stabilization is much better for video (like my zv-e1)
3. Q3 has tilt screen while a7cR has flippy. To me that only matters if you take selfies with the family or vlogs
4. Q3 has a very minor crop in 4k 60p (though im not sure if its the same 1.2 as the a7cR), while the a7cR has 1.2 crop.
5. Q3 uses DNG which works with legacy standalone Lightroom 5 or 6.14 without adobe dng converter
6. You have option to switch up a7cR lenses. Not sure what lenses would beat the Q3's 28mm 1.7 size. I personally would go with the smaller 35/f2.8, 40/2.5, 24//f2.8, or bigger 24mmGM (my fav sony lens for rendering), or 11mm 1.8 for aps-c wider shots with tradeoff in MP.
7. A7cR can specifically choose modes like Aperture priority, shutter priority, etc, while Leica Q3 requires you to set each A/S/ISO in a certain way to make those modes (Ex: setting auto for ISO and Aperture will create shutter priority mode or something)
8. sony Slog3 is easier to color grade for me at the moment since Im not familiar with the Leica log profile
9. Sony has smaller 4k 60p bitrates(200 mbps?) while Leica's is like 600 mbps so file sizes may be super high
10. Also assuming a7cR autofocus may be snappier?

Edited September 3, 2023 by nariza7

[clasami]

Q3 - and maybe A7c II. 60MP is okays for the Q3 with that fixed, excellent lens. On the A7cII, I can use the Sigma 90f2.8 in crop to simulate a 135mm and 180mm lens. 33MP is just fine.

[nariza7]

5 hours ago, CalStanford said:

Not sure what's so great about the A7CR. Yes it has the same sensor as the Q3 but so does the 4 year old A7 R IV. If the sensor was the only thing, we could have bought this thingie back in 2019 already.

The EVF and back panel display are straight up 2010 tech. Really really bad for a $3000+ body-only camera.

But the biggest issue for me is what lens to slap on. There's no good E-Mount lens for wider angle low aperture like the 26mm f1.7 Summilux we pretty much have on our Qs. There's the 28/f2 from Sony that's super old and way too soft for 61MP. There's some 35mm options but that's not that wide anymore. And then there's the Zooms but those weigh 500g+ and are often F4. 

Sony doesn't have cool pancakes like Nikon's 40mm f2 or 26mm f2.8. Nor ones like the Canon 28 f2.8.

 

The aforementioned FE 20-70mm F4 G is indeed neat but it's not Q3. It's F4 and it's 500g. That plus the body itself and we're at +50% Q3 weight already.

I was waiting for Sony to come out with an RX1R3. Slightly larger body, add IBIS or lens stabilization. Change the sensor up to the newer 61MP. Bit bigger battery. New lower power processor and displays. Basically update the tech since the eight years of RX1R2 release. Boom. But they abandoned the RX series. The A7C series isn't a replacement. 

I too have been waiting for the rx1r3 that may never come out. The 35mm sonnar paired with the rx1r2 is my all time favorite rendering of photos. My only fault with that as a stills camera is the battery life. For the next iteration, I would just like better battery life and 4k60p video with stabilization. Hard to imagine all that in the same small package though. The A7c series is close in specs, but not with the same lens combo and form factor. My current assumption is that the a7c series with the 24gm is prob the closest in similar beautiful rendering, but the overall size is too big. 

[bobtodrick]

Gotta admit…my son has the A7c.

With 4 nice Sony primes it’s about the same price as my Q was.  It has good quality and feel (most Sony’s do) and it is a LOT more versatile than my Q for the average person.

On the other hand I wouldn’t switch.  But that is because:                                        
A: what I like to photograph is best handled by a wide lens so I don’t feel constrained, and.                                            
B: I have been a sucker for the red dot since 1978 😂

If I was going to recommend a kit to the ‘average’ photographer (and I do as I’ve worked at one of Canada’s largest photo retailers for 39 years…and we stock both brands)…I’d recommend the Sony.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[liggy]

This is so different than a watch forum.  The correct answer there is *both*.

Camera forums are much more tribal.  Other than being compact and 61mp the cameras in my mind are so different.  For something akin to the Leica rendering I've been shooting the Voigtlander Noktons on my Sonys and Fujis.  The 35GM is a killer lens but the Q Summilux has a character to it that is really pleasing.  Haven't seen a Sony lens yet that matches it although the 50 1.2 GM definitely has a thing of its own.

All that said - if you put a gun to my head and said you could only have one:   The Sony A1 would be the one.  It's not the prettiest thing but even almost three years since its release I cannot think of a better camera for doing everything.  

I'm so spoiled by the stacked sensor benefits of the A1 that the A7R5 / A7CR just aren't options for me.  

 

OP - since you have a tele option in place and it sounds like you're actually able to get a Q3 - I think moving forward with it would be the logical thing to do.