Is a Noctilux worth it?

[Fedro]

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the 75 Nocti is a wonderful tool, is it worth it? only you will know. In the Leica world yes of course, given pricing, in the greater scheme of things it is all relative

It is a show-off lens for Leica to show what it is capable of making on a manual lens wonderful and complicated 

I have one, I dont use it much when I do I am happy I did, when I dont there are other lenses that I enjoy using

Nothing like it on a RF, but then again not much competition at that level of craftsmanship on RFs anyways

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[Fedro]

I bought it when I could afford it, would I buy it again, probably not as I am not earning as well as I used to do

will I sell it, not for now: I enjoy using it and would lose too much money if I did anyways

it reminds me on my beloved canon 85 1.2 I used to have (for a much lower price) but it was not Leica and it was not all made of metal

pick your poison and be happy with it. peace

[hdmesa]

I would love to have a 75 Noct just for personal use for non-critical photos. But practically, if I were trying to get a lot of usable images out of a casual portrait session, I'd still rather use an R5 + RF 85 1.2 with its nearly infallible focus on the iris at f/1.2 even with subject movement.

As for focusing something like the Noct 75, maybe the CV 50 f/1 could come close to it for difficulty in nailing focus wide open. When I had that lens, what I did to avoid errors from subject or photographer shifting their body positions was to use the Visoflex/EVF – first I'd compose, move focus point to the eye, zoom, focus – then take the shot immediately without zooming out to recheck the composition. Bypassing zooming out will double the focus hit rate. The natural inclination is to think you've moved your composition, but you haven't because you're maintaining the position of the focus point on the eye when zoomed in. The only downside to this method is the expression on the face of your subject could have changed, but keeping the camera in continuous high and making every shot a short burst of a few frames can help.

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by hdmesa

[pippy]

4 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

Not sure if the difference in speed, 1.25 vs 1.5 (my current nokton) would justify the price. But the rendering might...

This - the rendering - is the only point to consider (if the outlay isn't an issue).

How often - honestly - do you shoot your 75mm Nokton wide-open? Does the rendering of the Noctilux used at f1.25 compared with what you get at f1.5 suggest the outlay is neccessary? If the answer to these questions is 'Often enough' and 'Absolutely' then buy the Noctilux.

Philip.

Edited September 2, 2023 by pippy

[agfa100]

This was at f 2.0 on a Sigma fp body.....

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[pippy]

1 hour ago, agfa100 said:

This was at f 2.0 on a Sigma fp body....

Seriously? Have you had a really good look at the focus-plane in your shot?

P.

Edited September 3, 2023 by pippy

[Ko.Fe.]

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To me it is more about 75mm lens and framelines.

If I'm not mistaken, even with manual lens selection and electronically highlighted framelines...  no way to highlight only correct framelines.  Too many masks, I guess, to accommodate.   

I mean, paying huge price for the premium lens and get confused by 50/75 clutter. 

[trickness]

8 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said:

To me it is more about 75mm lens and framelines.

If I'm not mistaken, even with manual lens selection and electronically highlighted framelines...  no way to highlight only correct framelines.  Too many masks, I guess, to accommodate.   

I mean, paying huge price for the premium lens and get confused by 50/75 clutter. 

That’s why even Leica talks about the 75 Nocti being amazing on the SL bodies. EVF and the body/lens balance make for a much better user experience than on M bodies. I can focus on an eyelash at 1.25 and have it pin sharp.

Edited September 3, 2023 by trickness

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, pippy said:

Seriously? Have you had a really good look at the focus-plane in your shot?

P.

Looks like focus hit the girl's earring bang-on 🫠

[IkarusJohn]

13 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

I know, another question about a lens. And I also know, that only I can answer for myself. Yet, I am still interested in other opinions.

On my M I have a 24mm, several 50’s, and the nokton 75/1.5. I am seriously considering to add the 90mm apo as well as a SL75 apo.

A remark from @trickness about the Noctilux 75mm made me take a look into this lens. I never considered such lens before, but must admit the rendering is really nice, but so is its price.

But instead of a m90 and the SL75, and with selling the nokton, the Noctilux comes within reach (with some additional cash ofcourse).

But will a Noctilux be worth it? I know many here would like one, had one or still have one. If you had one, why did you sold it? If you want one, why don’t you go for it? 
 

thanks, Olaf

I think the first consideration is the framing.

I have 4 x 50s, but I still like the 75 even though the framing is very close.  This is partly because I have the 75 Summilux, which was Mandler’s favourite lens.  It’s a little tricky to nail the focus wide open, but the long focus throw helps a lot.  It’s one of my favourite lenses - soft wide and sharp stopped down.

I don’t have the 75 Noctilux, but I do have the 50/0.95.  Here are my thoughts:

• lot’s of talk how hard to focus the lens is, on the assumption that you always shoot wide open.  It’s better to have the whole subject in focus, so use the aperture ring
• the 75 Summilux has a thinner depth of field than the 50/0.95 Noctilux wide open
• is there any point in paying all that money, and not using it wide open all the time?  Sure.  It’s the image you want to get the critical bits in focus.  The lens still has a lovely drawing stopped down.  Conversely, only part of the subject in focus (an eyelash) isn’t even a good advertisement for the lens
• my 50/0.95 balances beautifully on my SL, and with the focus magnification is fantastic.  On my M10-D, with the EVF, I still get focus magnification
• I’ve had the APO Summircon-M 75/2, and couldn’t get it to reliably focus (focus throw too short), and the rendering wasn’t as nice as the Summilux
• I’ve also had the APO Summicron 90/2, and sold it as I just don’t like the 90mm field of view, and the lens was large and didin’t offer the rednering I liked
• I know that Jono likes both these APO lenses, and I might have enjoyed them if I’d given them more time, but I’ve loved my Noct and my 75 Summilux from the get go

Others views may differ, but that has been my experience.  Even though the framing is very close to the 50s I have, the 75 Summilux has a very special rendering.  I did list my Noctillux for sale on the forum, and was pleased it didn’t sell.  It has a very special rendering, and is a good all purpose 50, if you can be bothered to carry it (I have) and you remember to stop it down for the image.  

I’m sure the 75 Noctilux is just as addictive.  I’m not in the market for one, as I already have a fantastic 75 and I also have lovely 50s, ranging from antique (Summitar 50/2), through classic (50 Summilux), fast (Noct) and modern (50 APO Summicron black chrome - another keeper).  Adding the 75 Noctilux or the 90 Summilux wouldn’t really bring me much … though the 90 Summilux looks interesting …

https://www.overgaard.dk/Leica-90mm-Summilux-f-1-5-review-and-sample-photographs-Page-1.html 

Good luck!

[Ko.Fe.]

13 hours ago, trickness said:

That’s why even Leica talks about the 75 Nocti being amazing on the SL bodies. EVF and the body/lens balance make for a much better user experience than on M bodies. I can focus on an eyelash at 1.25 and have it pin sharp.

The huge benefit of framelines is space around, especially for 75. It opens vision.  While EVF is tunnelling it narrow.

And Leica been admitting what manual focus lens is better on AF body... While where is Sony AF adapter for M mount lenses, Leica ain't capable of none.

To me beauty of Noctilux series is not in too shallow DOF, but unique rendering of background of smaller apertures. 

Focusing on eyelash with manual focus lens is one thing. Keeping it in focus WO, while camera takes images is another. You breath, object breaths and it gets tricky. 

With AF (even so-so) you grab it in the focus and it holds to it in the servo mode.  

 

[trickness]

1 hour ago, Ko.Fe. said:

The huge benefit of framelines is space around, especially for 75. It opens vision.  While EVF is tunnelling it narrow.

 

Each system has strengths & weaknesses. With the SL/EVF I get exposure and focus preview that is highly accurate, and with my right eye in the EVF, I can see the entire scene in my left eye. Framelines are an approximation of what will be in the photo, they're not 100% accurate. I used film and digital M bodies for years, love M cameras for what they are, they are their own thing. But for the way I shoot, knowing 100% what I want in the frame and what I want to achieve photographically, the EVF helps me get there much more effectively. ESPECIALLY with fast lenses like the 75 Nocti and the 50 Lux 1.4 M, which is my most used lens. I see the picture before I even bring the camera up to my eye in any case.

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by trickness

[trickness]

Here's another wide open 75 Nocti shot - look at the color, the fine detail of the threads of his clothes and his whiskers,, the 3D pop - shot on SL2 (click on the image to see the detail). I added a little vignetting in post. 

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Edited September 3, 2023 by trickness

[Olaf_ZG]

Thanks to all for your replies so far, pro and contra, as well as great images shown.

I will only in 2024 be able to invest, so I still have some months to think and may be even try the lens.

Meanwhile, though I am interested in the 75, it is not only about the 75. The same question is valid for the 50’s and the latest 90lux which is at the same price level.

[01af]

Am 2.9.2023 um 20:31 schrieb Huss:

I have a Nikkor 105 mm 1:1.8. Wide open would this provide less or more DOF than the Noctilux-M 75 mm 1:1.25?

More.

At portrait distance ... say, 1.5 m with a 75 mm lens on a 35-mm-format camera, you'd get a depth-of-field of approx. 2.5 cm at f/1.25. With a 105 mm lens on the same camera, you'd shoot from 2.1 m distance and get 3.5 cm depth-of-field at f/1.8.

.

vor 17 Stunden schrieb IkarusJohn:

[...] the Summilux-M 75 mm has a thinner depth of field than the Noctilux-M 50 mm 1:0.95 wide open

Not true.

Given the example above (i. e. 75 mm lens on 35-mm-format camera at 1.5 m distance), the 75 mm lens gives a depth-of-field of 2.8 cm at f/1.4. For the same (umm, similar) picture with a 50 mm lens, you'd shoot from 1 m distance and get approx. 2 cm at f/0.95.

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, 01af said:

Not true.

Given the example above (i. e. 75 mm lens on 35-mm-format camera at 1.5 m distance), the 75 mm lens gives a depth-of-field of 2.8 cm at f/1.4. For the same (umm, similar) picture with a 50 mm lens, you'd shoot from 1 m distance and get approx. 2 cm at f/0.95.

For a given distance, it is - it’s a simple calculation.  What you’re doing is equalizing the framing - that wasn’t my point.

[RexGig0]

2 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

Meanwhile, though I am interested in the 75, it is not only about the 75. The same question is valid for the 50’s and the latest 90lux which is at the same price level.

I do not believe that the 50mm Noctilux is as optically well-corrected as the newer, more-precisely-corrected 75mm Noctilux and 90mm Summilux. A fault of the 50mm f/0.95 Noctilux is a considerable amount of Field Curvature. If I were to choose to raid my retirement fund, and/or liquidate some possessions, at considerable financial loss, in order to be able to buy one of these lenses, it would not be the 50mm f/0.95 Noctilux.

The 50/0.95 Noctilux seems to be more of a “character” lens, when shot wide-open, as I see it, than a modern, optically-well-corrected lens. 

To be clear, I have not used any of these three Leica M lenses.

As a reference point, I do own a Zeiss Otus 85mm f/1,4 ZF.2, for the Nikon F-mount, a high-performing manual-focus lens. The normal retail price is ~$4.5K US. (My wife is a dedicated Nikon shooter, and the more-senior photographer, by far, so, it makes sense to share one system; I will not be quitting Nikon. The Otus is sufficiently heavy, that I have full-time use of it. 😉 )

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by RexGig0

[IkarusJohn]

5 minutes ago, RexGig0 said:

I do not believe that the 50mm Noctilux is as optically well-corrected as the newer, more-precisely-corrected 75mm Noctilux and 90mm Summilux. A fault of the 50mm f/0.95 Noctilux is a considerable amount of Field Curvature. If I were to choose to raid my retirement fund, and/or liquidate some possessions, at considerable financial loss, in order to be able to buy one of these lenses, it would not be the 50mm f/0.95 Noctilux.

To be clear, I have not used any of these three Leica M lenses.

As a reference point, I do own a Zeiss Otus 85mm f/1,4 ZF.2, for the Nikon F-mount, a high-performing manual-focus lens. The normal retail price is ~$4.5K US. (My wife is a dedicated Nikon shooter, and the more-senior photographer, by far, so, it makes sense to share one system; I will not be quitting Nikon. The Otus is sufficiently heavy, that I have full-time use of it. 😉 )

Generally, field curvature doesn’t botther me so much, as I’m focusing with the lens on an object - provided the object is in focus, what happens with the plane of focus across the frame is less of a concern.  If I’m taking an photo where acurate focus across the frame is important, I’m not sure the Noctilux would be my choice.  I haven’t really had to consider the problem.

I tend to think more about high contrast transitions, resulting in pruple fringing …

Edited September 3, 2023 by IkarusJohn

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[pippy]

2 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

..though I am interested in the 75, it is not only about the 75. The same question is valid for the 50’s and the latest 90lux...

As far as I see it the question regarding a 50mm Noctilux, while still having to answer the same questions I mentioned earlier in post #51, is more complicated because - of course - there is not just one 50mm Noctilux. Each main iteration of this lens (original f1.2; f1.0; f0.95; R-I f1.2) renders in quite a different manner from each of the others so when pondering 'Should I buy a Noctilux and will it be worth it?' one would also first have to ask 'Which Noctilux will offer me the rendering which I like the most?'...

Philip.

[rramesh]

Found it big, heavy and hard to focus on the M9. Now that I have an M10 with a EVF, might revisit it. But there are so many choices from the likes of Voigtlander at a fraction of its price.