Is a Noctilux worth it?

[pgk]

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I haven't owned or even tried the 75mm Noctilux, however I used to own a Canon 85mm f/1.2 and so I have experience of using an ultra fast, short tele lens. My experience was that whilst I could take photos which used both its speed and focal length to good effect, they were few and far between. The focus was difficult too and it was a far from easy lens to use with 100% certainty of absolute focus being exactly where I wanted it to be. In the end I decided that nice though it was, it was not a lens which I wanted to keep.

My take on such lenses is that you have to have a really good reason to own one - because the lens will deliver a look which you really like and that you are prepared to put up with its drawbacks in order to et the images which make it worthwhile having and using. I'd say that whilst there are such photographers, they are few and far between. So whilst only you can decide, you do need to be objective and honest about why you want such a lens.

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[mdg1371]

1 hour ago, trickness said:

The Nocti isn't perfect, it's not the ultimate lens. But it is its own thing, and isn't it great that we have these choices instead of always having to be so damned practical. 

 

 

THIS.

The 75 Noctilux isn’t my favorite lens— it’s isn’t even my favorite 75mm lens— but it is unique, and that’s all it needs to be, just like any other lens.

[trickness]

8 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Try a 75 Chinese of the same speed first, it will not break the bank, then opt for the "golden package" if you are uber excited. It will only be *better*.
Work smart, not hard.

That's like saying "try any other lens, if you like it, then buy one more expensive".  I don't even know what a "75 Chinese" is as the Chinese Leica knockoff brands haven't copied the 75 Nocti yet as far as I'm aware. And even if they did it wouldn't be remotely like the actual thing.

Maybe better to rent a 75 Nocti first, or get to NYC @Olaf_ZG and I'll let you try mine 🙂

 

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by trickness

[Olaf_ZG]

25 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Try a 75 Chinese of the same speed first, it will not break the bank, then opt for the "golden package" if you are uber excited. It will only be *better*.
Work smart, not hard.

Not sure if the difference in speed, 1.25 vs 1.5 (my current nokton) would justify the price. But the rendering might.

As there are no rental possibilities, and few Leica users only, in Croatia, it looks like I need to go to NYC 😎 ( @trickness, thanks for the offer).

[trickness]

37 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Easy there Chief, you need to accept other people's opinion as well.

You're suggesting he buy a cheap lens that doesn't even exist as an alternative to the 75 Nocti. That's an interesting opinion, but I'm not required to accept it any more than you are required to accept my opinions. Except that I actually own & use the lens OP is asking about - do you?

Very nice photos on your IG feed btw.

Edited September 2, 2023 by trickness

[trickness]

14 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said:

Not sure if the difference in speed, 1.25 vs 1.5 (my current nokton) would justify the price. But the rendering might.

As there are no rental possibilities, and few Leica users only, in Croatia, it looks like I need to go to NYC 😎 ( @trickness, thanks for the offer).

It's not just about the aperture, it's the glass and the coating. Like I said, the rendering looks completely different than the 75APO SL, and really anything else, including the 50 Nocti .095.

NYC is beautiful in the fall!

[Huss]

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4 hours ago, trickness said:

@Olaf_ZG the 75 Nocti is a very unique lens - that's what you're buying. Like any Nocti, it requires commitment and adaptation to use effectively. It's HEAVY. It has no focus tab. It makes me a bit paranoid carrying it as it's so expensive. All these things are reasons why people get rid of their Noctis - thats why I think it makes sense to have realistic expectations when considering the purchase of really any Nocti, but especially the 75, which is not a universally loved focal length.

BUT - the insane bite of sharpness this lens has, the rich color rendering (totally different than the 75 SL APO which I also own) - it makes unique looking images. Using it with the SL2 EVF makes the job of getting a sharp image quite easier than with an M. The 75 Nocti is an amazing creative tool, its not always going to be the best lens for the job, it's not a general use lens due to the size, weight and cost - but if you exploit the strengths of this lens, it's highly rewarding. I bought mine after using the lens for a couple of hours at a Leica Akademie event in NYC.

The 75 Nocti and the 75 SL APO are nothing alike in terms of rendering. The SL lens has more accurate color, the Nocti is more romantic.

If you get one, my advice is to shoot with it exclusively for a couple of months until you truly understand what it can do.

Adding a bunch of 75 Nocti images below.

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Was this take at 1.25?  I get a shallower DOF with my Minolta 58 1.2 @ 1.2  - not judging the pic - I think it is great  - just wondering about the shooting aperture.

[Huss]

4 hours ago, trickness said:

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Freakin awesome pic!

[Huss]

Question to those who know DOF calcs... I have a 105 1.8 Nikkor.  Wide open would this provide less or more DOF than the Leica 75 1.25?

I know this is separate from 'rendering'.

[trickness]

6 minutes ago, Huss said:

Was this take at 1.25?  I get a shallower DOF with my Minolta 58 1.2 @ 1.2  - not judging the pic - I think it is great  - just wondering about the shooting aperture.

I think so? But the SL2 doesn’t pass aperture info in the metadata, and one of the 75 Nocti’s little bugbears is that it is very easy for the Aperture ring to slide over to 1.4 even when you set it to 1.25… at least on my copy anyway, the aperture ring is not very stiff. Many thanks for the nice words about the pictures.

[trickness]

15 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Thanks for the IG comment. 

You see, I neither own nor need the lens OP is asking about YET am still perfectly viable, competent and trustworthy to give opinion. I would choose the 75/2 APO over the 75 noctilux in a heartbeat because I have yet to see the latter persuade me it is any better (let alone lighter and smaller) than the former. No images produced yet to persuade me. Nor would you be able to tell which is which in a blind test. 
 

PS. Here is the link to the Chinese thingy you do not believe exists.

 

OK, I stand corrected. Didn’t know 7 artisans had copied this yet. 

But I will reiterate that you havent yet said you have any personal experience with the 75 Nocti, and yet you continue to speak authoritatively and “trustworthy” about it. And isn’t that so very “the internet”.

Edited September 2, 2023 by trickness

[Pierre68]

pfff this is what you get when you touch sensitive subjects...

[overexposed]

2 hours ago, Huss said:

Was this take at 1.25?  I get a shallower DOF with my Minolta 58 1.2 @ 1.2  - not judging the pic - I think it is great  - just wondering about the shooting aperture.

that is usually due to the big minimum focus distance of the leica lenses, limited by the rangefinder.

i guess the 75noct has a higher mfd than 70cm, more likely 1m, while the minolta probably is way closer than 50cm

[Stuart Richardson]

4 hours ago, trickness said:

With respect, you've missed the entire point of what I tried to say in my post - I can't speak to anyone else's.

Firstly, no lens or camera will "improve your photography", I certainly did not assert that and I don't think anyone else here did. Getting better pictures is down to the numpty pressing the button, not the gear.

 

I actually think we agree more than we disagree, and I am sorry if I touched a nerve, it was not my intention. I also was not really much referring to your post at all, but to Olaf's original question. And I certainly didn't intend to make this a contest! The original question was whether one thinks the Noctilux is worth it. I do not. That is not a function of it being a bad lens, but of it being wildly expensive and in most cases, impractical. That is my opinion, it need not be yours. I have not used the lens, but I have played with raw files and looked at a lot of pictures taken by it. I have used the 50mm f1 and f0.95 noctiluxes, and I have the same opinion of them. If it cost the same as a 75mm Summicron or a bit more, I would not make the same argument. If the question is "is a noctilux worth it?" my answer is still no. It is not no because they are not good lenses, it is not no in that they cannot even have a unique signature. It is a no because the way in which they are unique do not strike me personally as being particularly relevant to my photography (and I think most people's, to be honest). I just think that a lens that costs nearly 15,000 dollars for a lens that is extremely challenging to focus at the 1 stop where it differs in speed from its rivals is not worth it. I think that if the need is for an extremely narrow depth of field with a beautiful creamy bokeh that there are other platforms and lenses that can do that job better. Again, my opinion. You take very lovely photographs with the lens and I am glad that you find the value in it.

[JCR33]

The M75 Noct is very heavy and bulky but pairing it with the SL2, the balance and grip is not too bad.

It can be sharp and soft at the same time and very interesting rendering.

 

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[Stuart Richardson]

Oh, I forgot to post photos. I don't think I can replicate your photos or those from the 75mm Noctilux. I also don't really take portraits much anymore...mostly rocks. But here are some that I think work in the "shallow depth of field/beautiful bokeh/sharp detail" category, which is where I would put the 75mm noctilux. These were with the 110mm f2 planar. Or maybe the 150mm Tele-Xenar? I can't remember, but that is also kind of my point.

 

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Edited September 2, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[trickness]

15 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I actually think we agree more than we disagree, and I am sorry if I touched a nerve, it was not my intention. I also was not really much referring to your post at all, but to Olaf's original question. And I certainly didn't intend to make this a contest! The original question was whether one thinks the Noctilux is worth it. I do not. That is not a function of it being a bad lens, but of it being wildly expensive and in most cases, impractical. That is my opinion, it need not be yours. I have not used the lens, but I have played with raw files and looked at a lot of pictures taken by it. I have used the 50mm f1 and f0.95 noctiluxes, and I have the same opinion of them. If it cost the same as a 75mm Summicron or a bit more, I would not make the same argument. If the question is "is a noctilux worth it?" my answer is still no. It is not no because they are not good lenses, it is not no in that they cannot even have a unique signature. It is a no because the way in which they are unique do not strike me personally as being particularly relevant to my photography (and I think most people's, to be honest). I just think that a lens that costs nearly 15,000 dollars for a lens that is extremely challenging to focus at the 1 stop where it differs in speed from its rivals is not worth it. I think that if the need is for an extremely narrow depth of field with a beautiful creamy bokeh that there are other platforms and lenses that can do that job better. Again, my opinion. You take very lovely photographs with the lens and I am glad that you find the value in it.

Thanks Stewart! I did not take offense to your post, although I obviously replied passionately. I myself was very unimpressed by this lens when it was announced, and it wasn’t until I actually used it that I realized how special it is. And that’s really my main issue with these kind of discussions… something so rare and specialized needs to be used so that one can make an accurate assessment of its capabilities. And I realize this is inherently difficult due to the nature of the product. I personally have never felt I can speak about something authoritatively if I’ve never used it. When I did get a chance to spend some quality time with the 75 Nocti, having shot with the 75 Summilux, and the 75 M and SL APOS, I realized very quickly that this was a very unique bit of glass. (Leica Akademie actually ended up posting one of my photographs that I took with the lens on their social media feed - I deliberately made the lens flare and blew some of the highlights but the end result of the image was really unique). So whenever I see discussions where this lens is dismissed, I immediately wonder if the person criticizing it has actually used it at all. Because I was that guy who thought it was stupid and expensive and unnecessary when it was announced. And then I used it, and spent the next two months figuring out how to acquire one.

I think the Noctis are all controversial for the reasons that you describe above. They are heavy, at anything other than wide-open they really don’t have any advantage over any much cheaper Leica glass (although I think the 75 is stunning at any aperture). As expensive as they are, I think it requires careful consideration when buying one as such a large investment for a narrow benefit can often lead to regret (hence the very healthy used market of all the Noctis).

BUT lean into that narrow benefit, and you can create some stunningly unique images. If you have a bunch of other glass and are looking for something different, something that will inspire you and challenge you, I think these lenses are highly recommended. I certainly would never recommend the 75 Nocti as someone is first or even fourth lens.

I sincerely appreciate your very kind post and your overall tone, if I sounded at all harsh or dismissive, I apologize. 

And if you ever find yourself in New York, you are welcome to try out my 75 Nocti! 😉

[trickness]

Just now, Stuart Richardson said:

Oh, I forgot to post photos. I don't think I can replicate your photos or those from the 75mm Noctilux. I also don't really take portraits much anymore...mostly rocks. But here are some that I think work in the "shallow depth of field/beautiful bokeh/sharp detail" category, which is where I would put the 75mm noctilux. These were with the 110mm f2 planar. Or maybe the 150mm Tele-Xenar? I can't remember, but that is also kind of my point.

 

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Beautiful pictures! Very different rendering from the Nocti but gorgeous nonetheless.

Coincidently, I just got back from Iceland, and I took quite a few photographs of rocks myself 🤣

 

 

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[trickness]

5 minutes ago, JCR33 said:

The M75 Noct is very heavy and bulky but pairing it with the SL2, the balance and grip is not too bad.

It can be sharp and soft at the same time and very interesting rendering.

 

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Agree. I cannot imagine using this lens on an M body. Hard work that would be.

[Stuart Richardson]

I am a bit too old to photograph attractive young women these days, haha, so I stick to immovable objects.