Would you go 35mm APO SL or 35mm Summilux-M pre-FLE

[Ken Abrahams]

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It’s possible that “virtual reality” style of image may not be what some folk are looking for. Great comments above from Trickness and Jon W. I like the term virtual reality and for me these Apo lenses have a super realistic appeal, files can be somewhat outstanding. Good point about “modernness” couldn’t have said it any better. 

As a bit of a side track to the OP and the issue of focus shift with M lenses. I found the 35 M Summicron Asph to exhibit focus shift on the SL but other lenses not so much. There is nothing like the M cameras ability to focus at any aperture. 
ken 

[Stuart Richardson]

49 minutes ago, Ken Abrahams said:

There is nothing like the M cameras ability to focus at any aperture. 
ken 

Or, you know, any native SL lens, haha. The problem is not the lens, it is using it on a camera it was not designed for…but the other difference is that you will still have the focus shift on the M, but there is no way to correct it other than live view. This is one of the reasons Leica had to redesign several of these lenses...as the resolution jumped up, focus shift that was incidental on 10mp or film started to become more readily visible.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[hansvons]

34 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

The problem is not the lens, it is using it on a camera it was not designed for…

Absolutely my sentiment. Film-aera M wide-angle lenses like the aforementioned pre-FLE 35mm Summilux work on M sensors better than on regular DSLR sensors, including the SL line. They vignette more and show softer edges. They work best on film. This is not hearsay but my personal experience as I shoot mostly on film Ms and sometimes on the SL2-S.

BTW, R lenses work much better on the SL2/2, if a vintage look is important. The 35mm Summciron R V2 is a superb gem of a lens for DSLRs. But it's already in vintage M territory.

---

The 35mm APO SL prime proves that the highest performance and soul aren't mutually exclusive. This lens is a single occurrence on the stills photography market, only rivalled by 4-5 times more expensive modern cine primes. It is that brilliant. If I were in the market for a 35mm AF lens for the SL2/S, this would be my lens. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by hansvons

[w44neg]

Thanks for all the helpful comments. A 50mm SL 1.4 has come up. Hadn’t even considered that as I’ve always wanted those three little letters “APO” on a lens, but I’ll have a look at whether it will suit. 
 

I’ve always loved the Leica f1.4’s in the past

[Stuart Richardson]

It is a beautiful lens with superb results, but it is truly massive. Nearly as large and heavy as the 24-90mm zoom. Not exactly a travel lens.

[w44neg]

13 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

It is a beautiful lens with superb results, but it is truly massive. Nearly as large and heavy as the 24-90mm zoom. Not exactly a travel lens.

🤦‍♂️ okay yes that does sound a little insane

[Sohail]

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6 hours ago, w44neg said:

Thanks for all the helpful comments. A 50mm SL 1.4 has come up. Hadn’t even considered that as I’ve always wanted those three little letters “APO” on a lens, but I’ll have a look at whether it will suit. 
 

I’ve always loved the Leica f1.4’s in the past

It's a beast! My favourite lens. Yes, it's heavy but it's worth its weight in gold. I have the 28 APO, and 90 APO and have owned the 50 APO and 75 APO. All world class. But 50/1.4 SL is something else.

[LocalHero1953]

Threads like these remind me of the Irish advice offered to a traveller "If you want to go to X I wouldn't start from here".

SL for travel, street, leisure? For me, never, whatever the lens on it. For that I used a M240 (and 35FLE), then a CL, and now a Q2. Small, light, discreet. My SL2-S is for portraits, performance or events, and I barely notice the lens that's on it, including the 90-280, because I'm busy using it, not walking around wondering why I'm carrying such a lump (I've tried it). 

I agree with all the previous comments about the IQ of the Apo 35SL.

Edited August 29, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[w44neg]

15 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Threads like these remind me of the Irish advice offered to a traveller "If you want to go to X I wouldn't start from here".

SL for travel, street, leisure? For me, never, whatever the lens on it. For that I used a M240 (and 35FLE), then a CL, and now a Q2. Small, light, discreet. My SL2-S is for portraits, performance or events, and I barely notice the lens that's on it, including the 90-280, because I'm busy using it, not walking around wondering why I'm carrying such a lump (I've tried it). 

I agree with all the previous comments about the IQ of the Apo 35SL.

Well I appreciate your help, as well as everybody’s. The responses are helping me to hone in on what I want/need. Truth is, my Sony equipment does everything for work extremely well, and I’m finally creating colour profiles that work well to my tastes. 
 

However I’ve been derailed by a couple of outstanding prices on things I probably don’t need, but I’m trying to make work as part of my kit. I miss Leica as a brand, for its colours, and for this forum. 
 

My SL arrives tomorrow but I’m still without a final idea on which lens to choose. I miss my Leica M but hopefully this M8 will work out that I’ve been pointed in the direction of on here. I don’t really care about megapixels but all my M cameras in the past have just been beautiful devices to own and indeed use. 
 

So the SL and the S are surplus ideas, but they’re both systems I want to delve into. Maybe I’ll find some surprises that will allow me to integrate the Leica equipment more in to daily use. 

[LocalHero1953]

Just now, w44neg said:

I’ve been derailed by a couple of outstanding prices on things I probably don’t need, but I’m trying to make work as part of my kit.

The root cause of the problem!😉

Hands up all those who can't say the same.

[w44neg]

11 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

The root cause of the problem!😉

Hands up all those who can't say the same.

Lol yep, I’m guilty as charged. I need a shrink but they’d quickly get to my regrets of the Leica gear I’ve sold in the past 🤦‍♂️

[Photoworks]

On 8/28/2023 at 9:03 AM, BernardC said:

That could be said of any manual lens, but I haven't found it to be the case unless you are shooting past f:8.0. 5.6 and above are easy enough to focus by eye.

If you are shooting at f:8 or more, you can probably scale-focus.

@BernardD I don't think it is obvious to people who have not used a mirrorless camera. DSLR and Rangefinder have different ways of dealing with it.

I only mentioned it because I have tried it with many lenses and sometimes it is a challenge to focus. And nobody said anything before.

 

[Dr. G]

On 8/29/2023 at 6:30 AM, Ken Abrahams said:

It’s possible that “virtual reality” style of image may not be what some folk are looking for. Great comments above from Trickness and Jon W. I like the term virtual reality and for me these Apo lenses have a super realistic appeal, files can be somewhat outstanding. Good point about “modernness” couldn’t have said it any better. 

As a bit of a side track to the OP and the issue of focus shift with M lenses. I found the 35 M Summicron Asph to exhibit focus shift on the SL but other lenses not so much. There is nothing like the M cameras ability to focus at any aperture. 
ken 

In terms of the "virtual reality" comment, it's relatively easy to change that with a little adjustment in post, however you can't really get it if it's not there in the first place.  I can get a more vintage look using my APO Summicron-SL lenses with adjustments to the image, but it's almost impossible to get the unique look of the APO lenses if I don't start with one.  

[w44neg]

Well after a lot of debate, I decided to opt for a Summilux SL 50mm. It's a while since I've owned a wide aperture lens (my regular kit is f2), and I'm trying to push my usual "comfort zones" a little. So I thought I'd give 50mm a go as I think there could be some interesting applications for it with what I do.

I genuinely don't think it's as large as was made out by people I asked. It's not small, but I guess it depends what you're used to. The main thing is it's very well balanced. I held someone's SL2 with a 24-70 the other day and that was awful in this regard; very front-heavy and uncomfortable. The 50mm will be fine for travel.

I'm also hopefully picking up an M8 and this will have a 28mm permanently fixed to it, giving me my usual 35mm full frame equivalent. 

Have to say, I'm extremely impressed by the build quality of both the SL2-S and the 50mm. Rightly so at this sort of value, but it lives up to my expectations and surpasses them.

 

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[goodbokeh]

Well w44neg you've certainly gone through some gyrations on your post here. You've arrived with a real Low Light King combo. I've been mulling over what to do for a 50mm prime myself. Right now I'm of two minds between the SL APO 50/2 or the Voigtlander 50/1.0 M-mount that I could use either on my SL2 or M cameras. Enjoy.

 

BTW, here's an interesting video that includes your new 50 SL Summilux. The optical performance details are quite interesting.

[w44neg]

3 hours ago, goodbokeh said:

Well w44neg you've certainly gone through some gyrations on your post here. You've arrived with a real Low Light King combo. I've been mulling over what to do for a 50mm prime myself. Right now I'm of two minds between the SL APO 50/2 or the Voigtlander 50/1.0 M-mount that I could use either on my SL2 or M cameras. Enjoy.

 

BTW, here's an interesting video that includes your new 50 SL Summilux. The optical performance details are quite interesting.

Didn’t I just. Today will be the first day I get to use the combo in anger, so I’m looking forward to seeing if I went in the right direction lol. 

Thanks, I’ll watch that. I tried to find something like this but the YouTube algorithm gods didn’t show me this one. 

[Stuart Richardson]

9 hours ago, goodbokeh said:

Well w44neg you've certainly gone through some gyrations on your post here. You've arrived with a real Low Light King combo. I've been mulling over what to do for a 50mm prime myself. Right now I'm of two minds between the SL APO 50/2 or the Voigtlander 50/1.0 M-mount that I could use either on my SL2 or M cameras. Enjoy.

 

BTW, here's an interesting video that includes your new 50 SL Summilux. The optical performance details are quite interesting.

I think that is a well done and interesting comparison, and it is hard to argue with most of its conclusions. The only thing I would say is that the video is heavily biased towards portraits, and they did not do any landscape, architecture, close focus or technical photographic applications (food, copy work and so on). I use the 50mm APO Summicron for a lot of that kind of work, and it is truly remarkable. It may not be relevant for all, but I think it would separate itself from the pack even more, whereas in this video he is really only testing center sharpness and bokeh. What you can get out of the 50mm APO Summicron at f2 even to the extreme corners is astonishing, so too is that it is as good or better than most purpose built macro lenses for work in the close range. Otherwise, I think the video confirms what most with the experience have been saying...the 50mm 1.4 Summilux is the go to for portraits and still has extremely good optical characteristics, the 50mm APO has the best sharpness and freedom from color aberrations, and the 50mm ASPH is not as good as either, but cheaper, smaller and lighter, while still being a very good lens.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[Shawn30]

I see a lot of M users mention weight as a concern. My M240 with 28mm lens is pretty heavy. To me carrying the SL2 with 35 APO one handed seems more comfortable because of the ergonomics. 
 

Auto Focus and weather sealing would stear me to pair the SL2 with the SL 35 APO or SL ASPH. The resolution of 35 APO is nothing short of amazing
 

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[ratatatataaa]

On 8/27/2023 at 2:35 PM, Stuart Richardson said:

It seems like you need to take some time to consider what you actually want out of a camera. You were set on an S2 or S006 the other day, and now it seems were thinking about the M8 as well and ended up with an SL2S as a travel camera? These are all very very different cameras...not one of them a particularly good travel camera in 2023. Personally, I am glad the local store put you off the M8. An APS-C 10mp camera from almost twenty years ago...one where the battery was bad even then and you need special filters on every lens to not have uncorrectable color problems. I know that it can take good photos (I had one), but these days it is like deciding you are going to commute to work on a penny-farthing. Sure, maybe that guy who always wears a waxed mustache, monocle and wool vest might swear by it, but it is not exactly practical these days.  For travel, I think you will get further with the A7RV, as it is more compact and lighter than the SL2S. I am not against old cameras...my most used cameras these days are wood, but it seems you need to slow down a bit and dispassionately address what you would really be served by. What kind of pro work do you do? Would dropping from 60mp to 24 even be acceptable? How many lenses would you need to replace? Is the AF good enough to do so? What about your travel photography needs more than just the D Lux 7? If there is anything, why would the SL2S be better at it than the A7RV?

The M8 is APS-H (a bit larger) for me it is a great addition to the SL2s because of the crop factor (my 28mm 2.8 Rokkor becomes a 35mm and so on) and because of the different colors the CCD sensor produces. 10MP are enough for travel pics/ arty stuff, nice small files. Yes the filters are necessary for correct color but then the black and white files with filters off are more like from a monochrome. The camera has it's issues and I would only buy it if there is at least a 1 year warranty included (they still do repairs). The camera also has some problems in extreme heat/moist so it's always an adventure bringing it on a trip   Also it is the first digital M and thus a big part of Leica history.

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