Leica M11: Totally locked up, can not start (or reset)

[jaapv]

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As to QC I am sure that Leica  would pay you a hefty bonus if you could come up with a watertight QC system in a hand-assembly environment. 😉

[charlesphoto99]

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

I would suggest that it has nothing to do with QC but with staffing and supply chain problems with the repair department.

Most likely, but that doesn't negate the fact that for some users Leica not only has their $9K, but ALSO their camera, for an extended period of time. Leica are not some boutique hifi manufacturer working out of their garage. They are a big company, with dedicated stores round the world - they either have to come up with solutions in real time or do due diligence with customer service. Often neither seems to be existent. 

[jaapv]

Sure, but in this case they appear to be between a rock and a hard place. The dearth of competent staff is a universal problem in Europe presently, training promising candidates takes years and will tie up technicians that are desperately needed to to do the actual work. I discussed it with folks at Leica CS, the matter certainly has the attention of management but it appears that there is no easy solution.  Not an excuse, I agree, but reality that should be fixed as soon as possible I fear.

[IkarusJohn]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

Sure, but in this case they appear to be between a rock and a hard place. The dearth of competent staff is a universal problem in Europe presently, training promising candidates takes years and will tie up technicians that are desperately needed to to do the actual work. I discussed it with folks at Leica CS, the matter certainly has the attention of management but it appears that there is no easy solution.  Not an excuse, I agree, but reality that should be fixed as soon as possible I fear.

And yet, they are profitable and would seem to have increased production?

[jaapv]

The production side and repair side are completely separated, even on a corporate level. That dates back to the turn of the century, when Leica was close to bankruptcy. That way the service of the products was ensured, even if the main company should go under. 

But even then, a production worker is by no means competent to do repairs.

[IkarusJohn]

Just now, jaapv said:

The production side and repair side are completely separated, even on a corporate level. That dates back to the turn of the century, when Leica was close to bankruptcy. That way the service of the products was ensured, even if the main company would go under. 

Of course.  The issue then is that the production side is putting out cameras at a rate which they seem to be unable to properly check.  Whatever their production rate, perhaps they should increase their beta testing (M11) and quality control (film cameras scratching).  That might result in less presure on the Customer Service people, and they could second the under utilised repair staff across to the production side to increase production at the required quality to justify the price.

Churning out defective cameras on the productio side, driving away new customers and putting off existing customers is also a guaranteed route to bankruptcy.  Unless, of course, it’s only a small number of M11’s, M-A’s and M6’s affected (that old trope).

[jaapv]

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1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

Of course.  The issue then is that the production side is putting out cameras at a rate which they seem to be unable to properly check.  Whatever their production rate, perhaps they should increase their beta testing (M11) and quality control (film cameras scratching).  That might result in less presure on the Customer Service people, and they could second the under utilised repair staff across to the production side to increase production at the required quality to justify the price.

Churning out defective cameras on the productio side, driving away new customers and putting off existing customers is also a guaranteed route to bankruptcy.  Unless, of course, it’s only a small number of M11’s, M-A’s and M6’s affected (that old trope).

Do you have any information on the percentage of defective digital cameras? Up to now we only have the magnifying glass of the Internet. As for analog cameras that is a minuscule part of production with only a few people involved. I understand the scratchy issue has been identified but given the small niche market there may be still be a few affected camera in the pipeline. 

[IkarusJohn]

54 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Do you have any information on the percentage of defective digital cameras? Up to now we only have the magnifying glass of the Internet. As for analog cameras that is a minuscule part of production with only a few people involved. I understand the scratchy issue has been identified but given the small niche market there may be still be a few affected camera in the pipeline. 

Ah, so we’re back to very few problems magnified here …

[Ciamprob]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:43 PM, chris7273 said:

that's really sad to read this kind of experience. Did you buy it in a shop or online ? 

I buyer it in a Leica retail.

[Ciamprob]

 

Yesterday the laboratory tells me that my camera will be repaired within the next week.

They are very sorry for the long delay; unfortunately the inconsistent supply of spare parts prevents any form of programming.

 

On 09/19/2023 09:46, Roberto wrote:

[jaapv]

10 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Ah, so we’re back to very few problems magnified here …

No we are not We are back to accusations without facts to back up. I don’t deny that there may be a problem with a relatively higher percentage of failing cameras but just point out that there is no proof that there are. The lack of staff and spare part problem, however, is real. 

[IkarusJohn]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

No we are not We are back to accusations without facts to back up. I don’t deny that there may be a problem with a relatively higher percentage of failing cameras but just point out that there is no proof that there are. The lack of staff and spare part problem, however, is real. 

Walks like a duck …

[jaapv]

Fact vs fiction. I know  what I choose. 

[IkarusJohn]

7 hours ago, jaapv said:

Fact vs fiction. I know  what I choose. 

Of course - where’s the fiction?

[charlesphoto99]

If Leica are still able to manufacture new cameras then there should be no problem of supply to also service those new cameras. 

 

[jaapv]

Different channels, different supply chains. Parts for production are mostly in Portugal. 

[Leica Filmmatic]

I say they build a more robust loaner program.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Leica Filmmatic

[scott kirkpatrick]

You may have noticed that the most recent M11s are coming with a different firmware (1.6.2) than the latest that can be downloaded for cameras bought a little while ago (1.6.1).  So it seems that last few problems are getting ironed out, and may involve replacing problem components that are no longer being used. That and the rumored M11-P introduction suggest that things are coming under control.  I'd hope to see a firmware rev pretty soon that will work on all of the M11 variants, declared or undeclared.

[scott kirkpatrick]

On 8/22/2023 at 8:24 AM, patashnik said:

Thank you all! Latest firmware (1.6.1, I believe?) was installed. I do have my silver M11, so I'll manage 😉

 

I'll try the trick with the battery. I left it out before leaving for work this morning, so I'll put it back in when I get home.

When the M11 was new, the very first firmware release would not boot, but the fix was simple.  Leave the chip out and start up using only the internal memory chip.  That hasn't been necessary for a long time, but it's worth trying if you still have the camera in hand.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[charlesphoto99]

15 hours ago, jaapv said:

Different channels, different supply chains. Parts for production are mostly in Portugal. 

And one company. Still no excuse for the extensive delay in repairs, imo, except an inbred, long standing corporate policy/way of doing things that should have changed a long time ago.