SL2-S user thinking about moving to M…

[Dr. G]

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My Q3 arrived today but I’m having a hard time deciding if I should open it or sell it.  I have been using the SL2-S for the past few years with the 35, 50 and 75 APO Summicron-SL lenses. 

My main concern is image quality.  With the APO SL lenses all of my images look like they are taken with a much higher resolution camera.  I also really like the rendering of the APO SL lenses.  I’m concerned that I won’t be happy with the Q3 images comparatively.  But the Q3 is a much better form factor for traveling and a daily carry. 

That leads me to my next thought.  Would it be better to pick up a preowned M11, a preowned 50mm Summicron APO and a 28mm M lens?  I’ve never shot a rangefinder, plus I wear glasses - so there would be a learning curve and it could be an expensive one, at that.  
 

Has anyone either moved from the SL2-S to the M11 or have them both at this point?  I would love some direction on this.

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[TomSchmitt]

1 hour ago, Dr. G said:

My Q3 arrived today but I’m having a hard time deciding if I should open it or sell it.  I have been using the SL2-S for the past few years with the 35, 50 and 75 APO Summicron-SL lenses. 

My main concern is image quality.  With the APO SL lenses all of my images look like they are taken with a much higher resolution camera.  I also really like the rendering of the APO SL lenses.  I’m concerned that I won’t be happy with the Q3 images comparatively.  But the Q3 is a much better form factor for traveling and a daily carry. 

That leads me to my next thought.  Would it be better to pick up a preowned M11, a preowned 50mm Summicron APO and a 28mm M lens?  I’ve never shot a rangefinder, plus I wear glasses - so there would be a learning curve and it could be an expensive one, at that.  
 

Has anyone either moved from the SL2-S to the M11 or have them both at this point?  I would love some direction on this.

I have a SL2-S and M11 and M11M, but no Q3. Here is my uneducated opinion: I’d say IQ with Q3 won’t be an issue. SL APO glass is certainly better (also better than M glass), but you won’t complain considering the small form factor of the Q. Q3 also has much higher 60MP vs. SLS 24MP, so you will be surprised about the ‘cropability’ of a 60MP file into 35 or even 50mm field of view. So the M in terms of IQ: SL 50 APO is slightly better than the M 50 APO, but not much, PLUS you are using 24MP vs. 60MP. So I’d say that’d be a draw. Bigger issue will be if you like rangefinder focussing and can deal with glasses. Go to a Leica store and loan an M for 2 hours. They will gladly let you try one and see how it goes. 

M shooting is at least as much about the process as the result, so you gotta love the manual and slow flow. 

 

Also: Q3 choice will be MUCH cheaper (6000) vs the M11 option (9000+8000+5000). Just sayin’ ….

Hope that helps!

Edited August 18, 2023 by TomSchmitt

[Olaf_ZG]

2 hours ago, Dr. G said:

But the Q3 is a much better form factor for traveling and a daily carry. 

To me, this question was an eye opener. Had the Q2 as EDC, but every day is dull and can be captured with a phone. If I want to photograph, I go out with a purpose and select camera based on that. Sold the Q, no regrets.

But to be honest, a Q with 50mm plus tilt screen would be very tempting.

[Photoworks]

I use SL2 , M11, Q2

to me, SL2 is work shooting, video shooting, and other shoots where I need longer lenses.

I got the q2 because I didn't have a wide-angle for M, but since I got 21mm and 28 summilux for M the Q2 is really used.

If I am feeling point-and-shoot at a family party or easy travel the Q2 is good. But for the enjoyment of shooting, I like the M11 and carry it everywhere with 2 lenses.

Plus and minus of Q2

+ Lens is sharper wide open than 28 Summilux-M, but it is wider too 26mm or so.  at 2.8 they are very similar sharpness.
(Summilux lenses usually have a glow wide open and sharp closed down.  this is true for the M 28 Lux, but not so much for the Q2 lens. I like the look of the M lens)

+ same battery as SL2

- noisy sensor over 3200 ISO, the Q3 sensor should be much better 

 

 

[lencap]

I’ve owned the Q; M7/9/M-A/MP; SL601/SL2-S.  Q is a great size/weight, excellent haptics, but 28mm focal length is too limiting for the candid people shots I want - same issue with Q2/3.  The Ms are what made Leica famous, but as a glasses wearing senior with cataracts getting critical focus quickly with shallow depth of field is beyond challenging.  I want a full frame sensor, and that leaves the SL line.  They’re heavy, but in a good way, like the classic Nikon F film cameras I shot for decades.  The extra heft balances the APO lens weight and image quality is spectacular.  24MP is all I need, and the workflow is easy and flexible.

I use my 48MP Apple 14 Pro as a Q proxy with 3 dedicated lens options for casual shots, and am constantly surprised by the image quality.  Third party apps provide far more control than Apple’s standard controls. It’s also always in my pocket when I need it for stills/video and integrates fully and easily in the Apple ecosystem.  I realize admitting to owning an Apple 14 Pro is a step too far for some, but the image quality is remarkable.  With 3rd party apps you can also mimic camera controls as flexible as the SL2-S in many situations.  Try it and be prepared to be surprised.

I bought the Leica bundled 50mm L mount f/2.0 lens as a light weight alternative to the APO and  use it as my default lens.  I bought the Panasonic 20-60 zoom, a super-lightweight do everything lens, trying to create a flexible lightweight one lens solution.  Turns out I rarely use it, as the vast majority of my images are 50mm.  I had and sold the 24-90 zoom.  Excellent lens, but heavy and not very fast.  I sold it, but miss it.  I do think of getting another, but for the limited times I need the 24 or 90 focal lengths the Apple Pro is a better alternate for the lighter weight/portability, and ability to crop and still have high resolution files.  Based on my real world images I’m likely to part with the APO for the same reason I sold the 24-90 zoom.  Image quality is superb, but weight is a challenge, and truth be told the 50mm f/2.0 lens/SL2-S does 95% of what I want in a relatively lightweight high quality package.  I also get a stealth SL body without the bright white Leica lettering - a welcome factor when traveling in unknown locales.  

So, my daily carry is the Apple, and the SL2-S is my photography camera, used for the joy of shooting and composition.  “Father Time” has forced me to make compromises, but I’m mostly happy with the outcome, even though I miss the wonderfully designed/engineered package of the Q, and the classic Leica experience of the M, as well as the appeal of APO “perfection”. 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by lencap

[la1402]

I have owned the Q2, SL2-S and now (after an M10), an M11. 

The Q is fun and easy shooting with very, very good quality. But too me it felt limited as I like to often go either wider than 28mm or longer than 50mm, and it is quite big for an carry-around camera.

The SL2S has many positives, but I hated the weight and size of body and lenses, and the upcharge for the Sigma clones. 

I love my M11 for fun photography, but I would not use it for critical situations where I need to ensure that i get the shot. But i admit this could be my limitations as i don't have decades of experience. I also like shooting portraits with open apertures and find that very difficult with any M. I am looking for a small 35mm instead of my Summilux to make it even more compact.

I think these are very different cameras with different strenghts, and they rather complement each other and I don't see how one fit fit all purposes.

I have to admit that when I know there are special occasions from which I want to secure to get the shot, I take my SonyA7RV with the 20-70. Old age and glasses, and things not getting steadier....

 

[adrianh]

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On 8/18/2023 at 5:42 PM, Dr. G said:

My Q3 arrived today but I’m having a hard time deciding if I should open it or sell it.  I have been using the SL2-S for the past few years with the 35, 50 and 75 APO Summicron-SL lenses. 

 

What did you decide? 

[Timeslip]

On a alaska cruise this year and Safari West in CA, I was glad to have my SL2-S and 90-280mm zoom.  However, I also went 2yrs without touching the SL2-s until this year and enjoyed my M10-R on a regular basis.  For me, if I want the extra zoom and speed (SL2-S).  Otherwise, it's iphone + M11.

[dugby]

On 8/31/2023 at 11:50 AM, lencap said:

I use my 48MP Apple 14 Pro as a Q proxy with 3 dedicated lens options for casual shots, and am constantly surprised by the image quality. 

 

I'm curious about your 48MP iPhone 14Pro, which I just bought for my wife, as I wanted her to have reason to take photos with it.

There are reports that the 14Pro default setting is 12MP which produces great images, and one must make a special effort to set 48MP  https://9to5mac.com/2022/10/07/iphone-14-pro-48mp/

and after doing so, the 48MP images are so-so...

 

Are you expressing delight in the 12MP or 48MP images ?

 

I'm a single lens APO50/M10R shooter( & do not wish to bring my 35FLE), and was hoping my wife's 14Pro 28mm images would not disappoint our photo journal, when we travel.

 

 

 

[Rollei35]

I had Q2 for 3 years and sold it to fund M system. I have presbyopia, myopia and astigmatism and I wear glasses, rangefinder focusing is never an issue, you may complain when using 28mm or wider lenses because of the hard to find frame lines. Other than that I’m very happy with my current settings, M11, M10-R and M-A, with 50mm apo lenses, 35 summilux FLE and 28mm summicron.

if a future Q comes with a 35mm lens, I would consider to get one as a point and shoot camera to companion my M system 

[DadDadDaddyo]

On 8/31/2023 at 11:58 AM, la1402 said:

I think these are very different cameras with different strenghts, and they rather complement each other and I don't see how one fit fit all purposes.

 

This parallels my experiences. At a friend's wedding last year, I arrived with the SL-2 + 24-90, and the M10M with a 35, a 50, and a 90mm.

I started out at the wedding shooting with the M - it's my preferred way of making photographs most of the time, especially when shooting for my own purposes. That said, I found over the course of the event that the SL-2 with the 24-90 was better suited for ensuring that I caught all the important moments in images intended for my friend's use. It was, in effect, straight reportage, in which the need for fast response was matched by the demand for conventional technical image quality - again, especially, in images intended for use by another person for their purposes, rather than images intended for my own uses as a photographer. 

This underscores what la1402 said, that these cameras are designed, and really very well-designed, for optimal performance in differing situations, each with a particular group of situations to which it's best suited. 

It stands to reason the enthusiasm of Q2 and Q3 owners express when the camera's design is so well suited to the types of pictures they typically make and the style of shooting they enjoy. 

Similarly, the SL series excels in situations where the demands of a production situation rise in criticality over operator preference; getting the expected or intended shots successfully is what matters most. 

And finally, for the true amateur, that is, one who does it all for the love of the craft, the M series is without equal, if (the critical 'if') that love is based in experience with and regard for the totality of what rangefinder shooting brings with it. If one finds meaning and suitability-to-task in the rangefinder approach to picture making, really, anything else feels like a lesser solution. 

This is a long way of saying what the Brits capture in the phrase, "Horses for courses..."

It speaks well to the flexibility of Leica as a company that they regularly produce equipment so well suited to these differing segments of the market, each with such distinctive requirements for satisfaction. 

[Dr. G]

On 9/1/2023 at 5:18 AM, adrianh said:

 

What did you decide? 

For now I'm keeping the Q3 and SL2-S.  I do a lot of low light shooting and the SL2-S excels at that.  I like the form factor of the Q3 a lot for everyday shooting but I'm not completely at home with 28mm.  I often find myself cropping my images unless I'm taking perspective corrected cityscapes, in which case the 28mm is helping me out.  For most of what I shoot, 50mm is my comfortable focal length.  

Now, if Leica does release the rumored Q body with a lens in the 40 to 50mm range, that would be the optimal carry for me.  In fact carrying the Q3 and a Q with a 50mm lens together as a travel kit would be absolutely fantastic.  

For overall image look, though, I still prefer my SL2-S and APO Summicron-SL lenses.