How do you carry film through airports today?

[davidmknoble]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Yes, everyone posting here loves film to some extent, and I still travel with film (and digital), but it gets harder to use film when the technicians scanning and inspecting in the airport have never heard of film cameras.  So, the question:  how do you package film for travel?  What do you use?  Do you pull it out of your bag and ask for hand inspection or let it go through the scanner?  Any different on the way home with exposed film?

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[davidmknoble]

@Surge, moved discussion here.  So, you use the ‘new’ old Kodak tins and had success getting through Heathrow with no inspection.  Did your film go through your bag in the x-ray and did it have any noticable effect when you developed it?  Wonder if 120 is big enough that small differences in negatives don’t show…

Edited August 2, 2023 by davidmknoble

[Borna]

There is a thread about it here, perhaps you can get some tips. Otherwise maybe you can get an x-ray free storage from like Hama for 6 rolls of film.  

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[frame-it]

 

[Smudgerer]

Unless you are traveling to a destination where you cannot buy film, or the film you want to use.......travel without the film. Buy it at your destination, expose it and if you cannot get it processed locally before you leave or want to process it yourself just mail it home undeveloped. I do this all the time and all it takes is a little bit of pre-planning to source what you need and a short time at the end of your trip to hit a post-office, ( or I have had concierges at hotels do it for me ). I have never had mailed film Xrayed. You can stick on "Do Not Xray" labels but I never do because if the package hits someone having a bad day they may well decide to pass their mal-karma vibes on.

[Surge]

Check this out:

https://carmencitafilmlab.com/blog/airport-x-ray-will-they-ruin-your-film/

Seems to be no issue even with CT scanners with a Domke lead bag (Hama is no longer making the Film-Safe X, It appears.)

 

I’m not going to go through the nightmare of requesting a hand inspection. I use priority screening and there’s no chance I’m waiting around for a security guy and arguing with him/her. And it is unnecessary anyway, based on the above.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Surge

[Surge]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

19 minutes ago, Smudgerer said:

Unless you are traveling to a destination where you cannot buy film, or the film you want to use.......travel without the film. Buy it at your destination, expose it and if you cannot get it processed locally before you leave or want to process it yourself just mail it home undeveloped. I do this all the time and all it takes is a little bit of pre-planning to source what you need and a short time at the end of your trip to hit a post-office, ( or I have had concierges at hotels do it for me ). I have never had mailed film Xrayed. You can stick on "Do Not Xray" labels but I never do because if the package hits someone having a bad day they may well decide to pass their mal-karma vibes on.

How do you know the film you buy locally has not been already damaged? This is what’s worrying me more, as everything is shipped by courier these days. 

[Anbaric]

11 minutes ago, Surge said:

Check this out:

https://carmencitafilmlab.com/blog/airport-x-ray-will-they-ruin-your-film/

Seems to be no issue even with CT scanners with a Domke lead bag (Hama is no longer making the Film-Safe X, It appears.)

I’m not going to go through the nightmare of requesting a hand inspection. I use priority screening and there’s no chance I’m waiting around for a security guy and arguing with him/her. And it is unnecessary anyway, based on the above.

I wouldn't conclude that from a single test of a slow film using a particular scanner at one airport.  I never used to worry about the old 'film-safe' carry-on scanners, but the new CT carry-on scanners (and of course checked baggage scanners, which haven't been film-safe for a long time) can and do damage film. I would always ask for a hand inspection when a CT scanner is in use in the security line. If a hand inspection were to be refused and my unexposed film got scanned anyway, I would discard it. If the film had already been exposed and I had a lead bag, I would give it a try and hope for the best (but be prepared for the worst).

Advice from Kodak and Ilford:

https://petapixel.com/2020/01/27/kodak-warns-users-new-ct-scanners-at-airports-will-ruin-your-film/

https://kosmofoto.com/2020/02/ilford-photo-working-with-heathrow-airport-on-ct-scanner-issue/

[Surge]

The Carmencita Film Lab test was real and I trust it. Kodak’s “test” was done 3 years ago and they did not use a lead bag. Without a lead bag, it’s a given that a CT machine will damage the shots (if they are not properly exposed). Also, the Fujifilm links in the Petapixel page are no longer working/correct. Can’t see an official website from Kodak on this either - perhaps they have backed-off on this initial assessment.

Asking for manual hand inspection is a non-starter at many airports (as has been mentioned here) - so you are setting yourself up for frustration and - at best - longer wait times. No thanks.

I will trust the Carmencita test and use a Domke bag with 400 ISO and below. Note that above 400 ISO may also be fine, they just didn’t test above 400.

My main worry is how to ensure where you purchase the film it hasn’t gone through X-Ray or CT screening!?

Edited August 2, 2023 by Surge

[Eclectic Man]

Smudgerer (post #5) suggested posting film back from your holiday, but, if you are really worried, you could try posting your unexposed film to yourself at the place you intend to stay to await your arrival.  Nowadays film can be difficult to buy in duty free shops even at places like Heathrow Departures lounge (another option to avoid scanners).

For 120 film, I believe that with plastic spools they would not set off the metal detectors anyway, so you could just wear cargo trousers, load up the pockets and walk through the people scanner.  Same for sheet film, there is definitely insufficient silver in the emulsion to set off anything.  

Get a cable detector from your local hardware store, one used to find electrical wire embedded in walls etc. before drilling holes, and see how high you need the setting before that beeps.

Airport people scanners are set to a sensitivity so that if you stop in the archway, it will bleep, but if you walk through purposefully, without carrying any metal you should be ok.  (There is a 'random' check also, and it jolly well is random too, even I've been stopped for it once, and I am a Privileged, Western, White, Middle-Class, Male!)

Edited August 2, 2023 by Eclectic Man
Correcting a typo

[Smudgerer]

1 hour ago, Surge said:

How do you know the film you buy locally has not been already damaged? This is what’s worrying me more, as everything is shipped by courier these days. 

It really depends on your destination. Obviously if that's some village in the depths of the Amazon my advice isn't valid, but most destinations, even remote ones, mean that you probably will enter and exit through an airport, most airports are close to largish cities, and a call or email contact with a camera shop where-ever you're going before you leave may put your mind at ease. The way I do it doesn't work for everyone, works for me but as said some destinations might need some homework first. Xray machines / scanner are getting more powerful that's for certain, I just avoid having to use them when I travel with a film camera, once bitten twice shy.

[Anbaric]

2 hours ago, Surge said:

The Carmencita Film Lab test was real and I trust it. Kodak’s “test” was done 3 years ago and they did not use a lead bag. Without a lead bag, it’s a given that a CT machine will damage the shots (if they are not properly exposed). Also, the Fujifilm links in the Petapixel page are no longer working/correct. Can’t see an official website from Kodak on this either - perhaps they have backed-off on this initial assessment.

Asking for manual hand inspection is a non-starter at many airports (as has been mentioned here) - so you are setting yourself up for frustration and - at best - longer wait times. No thanks.

I will trust the Carmencita test and use a Domke bag with 400 ISO and below. Note that above 400 ISO may also be fine, they just didn’t test above 400.

My main worry is how to ensure where you purchase the film it hasn’t gone through X-Ray or CT screening!?

The test was real, but the lead bag only seems to have been used to protect a single roll (in the text they say it was the Portra 160, though the images are labelled UltraMax, so I'm not quite sure which they did). Everything else went through the scanner unprotected and was damaged. For a proper test, you'd need to take some equivalent photos on different rolls of the same film (preferably a higher ISO film), have some CT scanned and some not, some in a lead bag and some not, and then do a careful comparison. And you wouldn't just do it on a single scanner, but on the full range of CT scanners that are in use at airports. The Ilford FAQ lists 6 different CT scanners (Schiphol uses the L3 ClearScan, whereas I think Heathrow uses the Smiths HI-SCAN 6040 CTiX) and we don't know if some are more or less damaging than others, or whether settings make a difference. The manufacturers don't seem to be making any claims about film safety these days, unlike the previous generation of scanners.

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/faqs/

As it is, all we do know is that the bag seems to have helped significantly in a single situation, but without proper controls for comparison. Some other tests that have compared scanned with unscanned film have shown quite subtle effects that were only obvious when a direct comparison was made.

I don't see the problem with asking for a hand inspection - the worst they can do is say no. And by making the point you want one, you may avoid situations where an operator who can't see clearly inside the lead bag simply takes the film out and runs it through the scanner unprotected. In the US, the TSA is supposedly obliged to perform hand inspections on request.

I haven't seen anything about Kodak or Fuji changing their advice - that's probably just link rot. Kodak have left the warning on Twitter and their warning label now includes CT scanners. I imagine the further testing that Ilford mentions was probably interrupted by the pandemic.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Anbaric

[Jeremy Bunting]

Just take the film out of your bag and ask for it to be hand-checked. I’ve never had a problem in the US, Mexico, or Europe. 

[Jon Warwick]

The Carmencita article was very interesting; I'd be curious to see if other similar tests come to a similar conclusion. From my side, I've pretty much given up with film for international travel due to the effects I've read about CT scanners ....and to think just a few years ago I was carrying a 5x4 and boxes of its film through airports, and merrily putting it through the X-ray machine with no probs (I would assume large format film is pretty impossible to travel with now ....how can a hand check be done if unable to open the box to light?!). I'd like to take the Leica M7 though on trips though, so 35mm would now be my goal, but from other posts it just seems a bit random if a hand check is granted or not, and if the latter, what a waste of effort if it ends up going through a CT machine.

[BradS]

For US domestic flights, there is absolutely no problem getting film inspected by hand. I've never even had to wait more than a couple minutes extra. I've never had trouble in South America either. Just be polite. They'll know what to do.

I haven't been back to Europe in more than 7 years but in my experience, the situation there is totally different. Hand inspection is not generally done and has on more than one occasion, asking brought an angry, threatening response from the security agent.  I'm really not sure what to do there now that they are moving to the new CT scanners. I'm planning a trip to Spain and at present, my plan is to carry film with me from home and have it all developed and printed there before leaving.

 

[BradS]

19 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said:

 ....and to think just a few years ago I was carrying a 5x4 and boxes of its film through airports, and merrily putting it through the X-ray machine with no probs (I would assume large format film is pretty impossible to travel with now ....how can a hand check be done if unable to open the box to light?!).....

I've done it several times (SFO, OAK, and LAX) with no problem. Brought a changing bag and an example film box with all of the packaging and one sheet of film in it. Asked for a physical inspection. Told them it was film, show them the demonstration box. They took me to a nearby conference room with a table and chairs. I put changing bag on the table, placed the film boxes in the bag, zipped it up and let them do their thing. The guy at Oakland was actually pretty excited. He said they trained to identify thing by touch with a similar setup. As always, just be polite and professional. Expect them to do their best. Don't be in a hurry and don't be an asshole.

Edited August 2, 2023 by BradS

[Surge]

2 hours ago, BradS said:

I've done it several times (SFO, OAK, and LAX) with no problem. Brought a changing bag and an example film box with all of the packaging and one sheet of film in it. Asked for a physical inspection. Told them it was film, show them the demonstration box. They took me to a nearby conference room with a table and chairs. I put changing bag on the table, placed the film boxes in the bag, zipped it up and let them do their thing. The guy at Oakland was actually pretty excited. He said they trained to identify thing by touch with a similar setup. As always, just be polite and professional. Expect them to do their best. Don't be in a hurry and don't be an asshole.

Sorry, this sounds like a nightmare. And it’s not consistent - we will not get the same response wherever we go. 

We need a consistent solution that can be relied on with any machine. 

I have written to the author of the test asking them to elaborate on their conclusions.

I will be traveling to Tokyo next month (from Canada) and will have the film in a Domke bag as a carry-on. I am not going to ask for a hand inspection. I have no additional time, nor any desire to get into a discussion with an overworked, low IQ, airport security agent.

[Surge]

From the B&H Photo website:

FilmGuard bags were tested for effectiveness by InVision Technologies, Inc., manufacturers of the only Federal Aviation Administration-approved checked-luggage scanning system. Films with up to ISO 800 speeds were tested. The extensive tests showed that the FilmGuard design will protect film and disks from the low-dosage x-ray units used to check carry-on luggage. 

InVision makes CT scanners 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Anbaric]

26 minutes ago, Surge said:

From the B&H Photo website:

FilmGuard bags were tested for effectiveness by InVision Technologies, Inc., manufacturers of the only Federal Aviation Administration-approved checked-luggage scanning system. Films with up to ISO 800 speeds were tested. The extensive tests showed that the FilmGuard design will protect film and disks from the low-dosage x-ray units used to check carry-on luggage. 

InVision makes CT scanners 

I think B&H are just quoting the old Domke blurb from when these bags were first introduced. Although InVision used to make checked baggage CT scanners, 'the low-dosage x-ray units used to check carry-on luggage' are the previous generation of pre-CT carry-on scanners (InVision was bought out by GE and sold on to Safran before carry-on baggage CT scanners were a thing). The next sentence says 'The tests also showed that the amount of lead needed to protect film from high-dosage x-ray units would make the bags too heavy to be practical.' I assume this refers to the checked baggage CT scanners of the time. Carry-on CT scanners are higher dosage than the older carry-on scanners, though I would guess lower dosage than the checked luggage CT scanners. The bags weren't designed to protect film from CT scanners, and while the Carmencita test looks promising, I wouldn't assume anything about how well they protect film from carry-on CT scanners in general.

[davidmknoble]

So, I typically do use the Domke lead bags, but more often than not when it went through the scanner, I would get a request to inspect the bag it was in.  Recently, that has not been the case so I wonder if the scanners have changed out to more CT scanners.  Inside the US, it is less of a problem, but international is more of a problem.  I’m headed to Dublin in a few weeks, however, I guess the best course is to just keep trying until I find it ruins the film.  Definately a market for good film bags to bock the CT scanners!