M6 TTL longevity

[quietglow]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I've owned at least one of each of the Leica film bodies, excepting some of the barnacks along with the M6 and M7. A few days ago I bought an M6 TTL from B&H on a whim. I've been mostly shooting an M3 & M2 for the past 5 years or so, and I am fine using sunny f/16 with the occasional light meter check. I also occasionally shoot digital Leica bodies, and there are times when the idea of a film body with the exact same metering interface as the digi bodies does seem appealing: hence the M6 TTL.

The camera I got from B&H has been used extensively. At the beginning of the pandemic, I bought an M8 which had 800 frames shot on it -- effectively new. I proceeded to walk 75-200 miles a week with it for 2 years, sometimes carried in a waist pack, sometimes over my shoulder. At the end of those two (long) years, every edge on my M8 was silvered as was most of the baseplate. This M6 looks very much like this. I also has obvious wear from where the previous owner's thumb and middle fingers regularly rested. If you've ever seen the photo of Gary Winogrand's M4, this camera is about 30% ish to that level of wear. Notably: the camera does not have a single ding anywhere and all the glass is pristine. I would guess it was owned by a single, very prolific, photographer who took good care of it. It's just worn because it probably hung around someone's neck for the last 20+ years (serial number indicates it was made in 2000). 

That said: my question is about the actual lifespan of an M6. I shoot a whole lot and have for years, but I have never worried about actually wearing an M body out. Is it actually possible to do so? I've done the normal checks I do with a "new" body (speeds, 1/1000th shutter banding, baffles leaks etc) and everything checks out. Part of me thinks it's wonderful having a camera that has clearly already been on a bunch of adventures. Part of me is concerned about getting a body at the later end of its life. The price was very good, but it was still wasn't inexpensive. I have 30 days to return it. Would you keep it? All anecdotes welcome.

Edited July 6, 2023 by quietglow

[twogun]

I have a couple of M bodies including an M6 TTL. I always presume that they will outlive me for the next 40 or 50 years. As a mechanical body I don't think there should be too much of concern with your purchase. The light meter might be the only issue but then I'm confident technology will resolve that.  Use it to the fullest and maybe send it off for a CLA to rejuvenate it. 

[spydrxx]

If it checks out I wouldn't worry about its lifespan. All devices have wear and tear lifespans, although it is often impossible to predict exactly what those lifespans will be. If you have serious reservations, return it, otherwise use it and deal with the normal consequences when and if they appear.

[jakontil]

There’s always failure in electronics in this case the lightmeter, having one myself too sometimes the thought haunt my mind

anyway, i take my chances.. there’s a few to very few reports regarding its failure

mechanically safe to say it’s lifetime adventure 

[smb]

I am under the impression that they need servicing every 50 years.  If it ain't broke don't fix it, is my opinion

[colint544]

A nice story about a worn-out M4 being brought back to life.

[TomB_tx]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

22 hours ago, smb said:

If it ain't broke don't fix it, is my opinion

Do you ever change the oil in your car? Mechanisms wear if not lubricated, and especially the older lubricants dry out.

[Bobonli]

I just sent a Nikon purchased in 1983 for its first CLA. I just bought an M4-P with its original packaging from probably the same era. Both work fine because they’ve been taken care of and not abused. I shot the Nikon A Lot, didn’t baby it but also didn’t treat it poorly. It looks brand new. I expect both to outlast me and then my kids will wonder what the hell they are!

If it works and the images are ok, keep it and enjoy it. I for one have really enjoyed getting back into analog and not chipping every shot I take. The cliche that ‘it slows you down to be more thoughtful” has been true in my experience. 

[Anbaric]

Pretty much everything mechanical in this camera is likely to be fixable for the forseeable future. Even Leicas from nearly a century ago are serviceable. If you are unlucky enough to have certain faults with the meter, they may not currently be fixable, though some correspondence from Leica quoted in another thread suggests that converting the camera to use the new M6 meter may be possible, potentially starting from this month (but it won't be cheap if it happens). It's not clear if this would also involve a change in the shutter speed dial or its direction of rotation.  Any metering issues that develop may not in any case be related to the cosmetic condition of the camera, unless (e.g.) it has taken a hard knock or been stored in humid conditions. I would guess that electronic failures are probably not very common at this point, or we'd be hearing more about them on forums like this, but they can happen.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Anbaric

[Huss]

2 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

Pretty much everything mechanical in this camera is likely to be fixable for the forseeable future. Even Leicas from nearly a century ago are serviceable. If you are unlucky enough to have certain faults with the meter, they may not currently be fixable, though some correspondence from Leica quoted in another thread suggests that converting the camera to use the new M6 meter may be possible, potentially starting from this month (but it won't be cheap if it happens). Any metering issues that develop may not in any case be related to the cosmetic condition of the camera, unless (e.g.) it has taken a hard knock or been stored in humid conditions. I would guess that electronic failures are probably not very common at this point, or we'd be hearing more about them on forums like this, but they can happen.

Leica won't even fix/correct the lens hood on the new SteelRim 35 lens that they are selling now!  You think they are working on a replacement meter for a 30 year old camera?

[Anbaric]

3 minutes ago, Huss said:

Leica won't even fix/correct the lens hood on the new SteelRim 35 lens that they are selling now!  You think they are working on a replacement meter for a 30 year old camera?

I guess we are about to find out.

 

[jakontil]

1 hour ago, Huss said:

Leica won't even fix/correct the lens hood on the new SteelRim 35 lens that they are selling now!  You think they are working on a replacement meter for a 30 year old camera?

According to leica the lens hood on steelrim is fine working as supposedly, i guess… 😂😂😂

53 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

I guess we are about to find out.

 

i have one myself and honestly i do really hope i wont lose the LM in my m6 TTL dragon…. Doesnt matter if it doesnt have the TTL function

[thrid]

I bought my M6TTL new around 1997, so that's about 25 years ago. I think I paid $2499 at Samy's Camera in Los Angeles.
 

If I remember correctly back in the day Leica rated the M6TTL shutter at 400,000 exposures.

Most of the M6TTL gearing is steel and extremely durable. It took about 10 years of heavy use for mine to really break in. It feels different than the brass M2/M3/M4 etc. more like a high precision tool running on ballbearings. The brass geared bodies feel more like a perfectly lubricated super precise watch. 

The M6TTL top plate is not really prone to denting, because it's nickel plated magnesium, instead of brass. Leica made the nickel plating really thick to protect the magnesium because it can oxidize if exposed to air. I suppose the top plate would crack before it dented, but I haven't managed to do that in all these years.

My meter still works, but at one point I did fry the TTL circuitry and DAG fixed it. Just make sure you turn the flash on AFTER you have mounted it. For me personally a total failure of the metering system due to a lack of spare parts wouldn't be a total disaster. I use a hand held meter 99% of the time, but I would miss TTL flash. So, it's not like the camera would become useless. Luckily I still have my M7 to fall back on for flash photography if needed.

The black anodizing on my M6ttl is the worst of the 8 M bodies that I own (M2/M4/M4-2/M6ttl/M7/M10). For some reason the finish on the rewind lever and battery cover don't really match the rest of the camera. Overall it feels thin and showed sign of wear very quickly. The black is worn through to the nickel in the front and back where the camera is held and my nose rubs up against the top plate. I'm guessing the acidity of sweat doesn't help either. 

From the factory the M6TTL rangefinder is missing the condenser lens found in older and newer cameras, but countless bodies were upgraded over the years with the 'flare fix'. Sherry Krauter upgraded mine a long time ago.

Over the years the ttl has had to make a few trips to the camera hospital, but the worst issues were due to operator error or for upgrades.

- I dropped the camera in Munich, when I staggered off an amusement park ride and cracked the body shell at the 12 o'clock position of the lens mount.

- I fried the flash metering circuitry, but the actual of the shutter metering still worked. It just wouldn't talk to the flash anymore. I assume this was due to me mounting a Metz 32-2 flash while it was powered on.

- After 18 years of being bounced around in a bag a screw came loose in the advance mechanism and jammed the camera. Don Goldberg fixed it and I think he also replaced the standard plastic frame counter with a metal one.

- The strap loops were replaced with the latest ones, which I think are titanium. The old steel ones were really tough compared to the brass ones on the pre M6 bodies, but I had it done when the camera got a CLA as a preventive measure.

- The original rangefinder was .85 and I had it swapped out for a .72 with the flare fix and multicoated windows introduced with either the M7 or MP. On the .85 I couldn't see the 35mm framelines properly and also wanted the markings for a 28mm

 

Leica M bodies are really tough and will outlast the operator if maintained by a properly trained technician. My M2/M4 bodies are from the 1960s and show no signs of slowing down.

The key to longevity for any mechanical device is preventative maintenance.

All of my cameras have been heavily used, but not abused. They get a CLA every 3-5 years, depending on use and operating environment. Lubricants dry up and the film bodies aren't really sealed, so schmutz and moisture gets inside and can act like an abrasive. 

My M6ttl has been all over the world with me and I've put hundreds, if not over a thousand rolls through it. She still going and shows no sign of slowing down.

The M6ttl is a really, really  nice camera. The worst thing I can say about it is that I hate the inaccuracy of the 50mm markings, which show coverage at 70cm, instead of 1 meter like on the pre-M6 bodies. This carried over into the M7 and MP, so I simply shoot the 50 on the M2/M4 and put the 28/35 on the newer bodies.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[jakontil]

20 hours ago, thrid said:

I bought my M6TTL new around 1997, so that's about 25 years ago. I think I paid $2499 at Samy's Camera in Los Angeles.
 

If I remember correctly back in the day Leica rated the M6TTL shutter at 400,000 exposures.

Most of the M6TTL gearing is steel and extremely durable. It took about 10 years of heavy use for mine to really break in. It feels different than the brass M2/M3/M4 etc. more like a high precision tool running on ballbearings. The brass geared bodies feel more like a perfectly lubricated super precise watch. 

The M6TTL top plate is not really prone to denting, because it's nickel plated magnesium, instead of brass. Leica made the nickel plating really thick to protect the magnesium because it can oxidize if exposed to air. I suppose the top plate would crack before it dented, but I haven't managed to do that in all these years.

My meter still works, but at one point I did fry the TTL circuitry and DAG fixed it. Just make sure you turn the flash on AFTER you have mounted it. For me personally a total failure of the metering system due to a lack of spare parts wouldn't be a total disaster. I use a hand held meter 99% of the time, but I would miss TTL flash. So, it's not like the camera would become useless. Luckily I still have my M7 to fall back on for flash photography if needed.

The black anodizing on my M6ttl is the worst of the 8 M bodies that I own (M2/M4/M4-2/M6ttl/M7/M10). For some reason the finish on the rewind lever and battery cover don't really match the rest of the camera. Overall it feels thin and showed sign of wear very quickly. The black is worn through to the nickel in the front and back where the camera is held and my nose rubs up against the top plate. I'm guessing the acidity of sweat doesn't help either. 

From the factory the M6TTL rangefinder is missing the condenser lens found in older and newer cameras, but countless bodies were upgraded over the years with the 'flare fix'. Sherry Krauter upgraded mine a long time ago.

Over the years the ttl has had to make a few trips to the camera hospital, but the worst issues were due to operator error or for upgrades.

- I dropped the camera in Munich, when I staggered off an amusement park ride and cracked the body shell at the 12 o'clock position of the lens mount.

- I fried the flash metering circuitry, but the actual of the shutter metering still worked. It just wouldn't talk to the flash anymore. I assume this was due to me mounting a Metz 32-2 flash while it was powered on.

- After 18 years of being bounced around in a bag a screw came loose in the advance mechanism and jammed the camera. Don Goldberg fixed it and I think he also replaced the standard plastic frame counter with a metal one.

- The strap loops were replaced with the latest ones, which I think are titanium. The old steel ones were really tough compared to the brass ones on the pre M6 bodies, but I had it done when the camera got a CLA as a preventive measure.

- The original rangefinder was .85 and I had it swapped out for a .72 with the flare fix and multicoated windows introduced with either the M7 or MP. On the .85 I couldn't see the 35mm framelines properly and also wanted the markings for a 28mm

 

Leica M bodies are really tough and will outlast the operator if maintained by a properly trained technician. My M2/M4 bodies are from the 1960s and show no signs of slowing down.

The key to longevity for any mechanical device is preventative maintenance.

All of my cameras have been heavily used, but not abused. They get a CLA every 3-5 years, depending on use and operating environment. Lubricants dry up and the film bodies aren't really sealed, so schmutz and moisture gets inside and can act like an abrasive. 

My M6ttl has been all over the world with me and I've put hundreds, if not over a thousand rolls through it. She still going and shows no sign of slowing down.

The M6ttl is a really, really  nice camera. The worst thing I can say about it is that I hate the inaccuracy of the 50mm markings, which show coverage at 70cm, instead of 1 meter like on the pre-M6 bodies. This carried over into the M7 and MP, so I simply shoot the 50 on the M2/M4 and put the 28/35 on the newer bodies.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Thanks for sharing the experience

to all M6 TTL users, what kind of battery do you guys prefer to use? Lately my M6 TTL dragon behaving in a weird way, like the metering is off, not shown during a shot, i read in manual i need to clean contacts which actually solved it, probably due to leakage or oxidation 

however sometimes it came back and it bothers me when shooting in succession indoors where i need accuracy

Previous owner told me he was using LR44 which prones to leakage.. i wonder..

[Fotoklaus]

CR 1/3N. No leakage.

[Matlock]

3 hours ago, jakontil said:

 

Previous owner told me he was using LR44 which prones to leakage.. i wonder..

Never use LR44 as they are alkaline. CR 1/3N is the way to go (or SR44 at a pinch, they are silver).

[jakontil]

2 hours ago, Fotoklaus said:

CR 1/3N. No leakage.

Not so easy to find here, but some unbranded floating around, i assume they were oke too? 

6 minutes ago, Matlock said:

Never use LR44 as they are alkaline. CR 1/3N is the way to go (or SR44 at a pinch, they are silver).

Hi mat, yeah im getting the SR44, easier to get than the CR 1/3N, which brand of the latter?

[Matlock]

1 minute ago, jakontil said:

Not so easy to find here, but some unbranded floating around, i assume they were oke too? 

Hi mat, yeah im getting the SR44, easier to get than the CR 1/3N, which brand of the latter?

I use Duracell but availability is different across the World and they seem difficult to find in some countries.

[quietglow]

I hadn't checked back on this thread in a few days. What a nice bunch of responses, thank you all!

Sadly, I decided to return the camera. The advance lever was slipping occasionally, which DAG identified as likely being a failing advance mechanism. Not the end of the world, but definitely a product of the extensive use of the camera. I decided I'd keep it and have that repaired, but then I developed a couple rolls I shot with it. They showed signs of a light leak that was something other than the one that results from failing baffles (which most of the Ms I've owned have to some extent). Having battled odd light leaks once before with an M4-P, I decided that discretion was the better part of valor in this case and returned it. Had I paid less for it, I may have stuck with it.

I also learned that sadly B&H does not actually repair cameras -- they just offer a refund if there is a problem. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M