Base ISO 100 on Q 3

[city of bristol]

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In his recent video "mathphotographer" explained that the true base ISO of the Q 3 [ must also be the Q 2] is 100 , i asked him how he knew this and explained leica told him and also because it was in the marketing material at leica stores.

I do not think jono slack covered this in his review and in the past some reviewers like DP review said they thought the ISO 50 was genuine.

1] is maathphotographer  correct?

2] Why would you use ISO 50 if its not a true ISO 50?

Edited July 4, 2023 by city of bristol
spelling

[jaapv]

@ 1 I don't know

@ 2 If you want to use a wide aperture and run out of shutterspeed.

[clifak]

1 hour ago, city of bristol said:

In his recent video "mathphotographer" explained that the true base ISO of the Q 3 [ must also be the Q 2] is 100 , i asked him how he knew this and explained leica told him and also because it was in the marketing material at leica stores.

I do not think jono slack covered this in his review and in the past some reviewers like DP review said they thought the ISO 50 was genuine.

1] is maathphotographer  correct?

2] Why would you use ISO 50 if its not a true ISO 50?

Many of the reviews I read list 100 as the base with 50 being pulled so it's probably in the press docs. I don't know of any cameras with a base iso of 50. 100 is pretty common these days.

Edited July 4, 2023 by clifak

[SrMi]

59 minutes ago, city of bristol said:

In his recent video "mathphotographer" explained that the true base ISO of the Q 3 [ must also be the Q 2] is 100 , i asked him how he knew this and explained leica told him and also because it was in the marketing material at leica stores.

I do not think jono slack covered this in his review and in the past some reviewers like DP review said they thought the ISO 50 was genuine.

1] is maathphotographer  correct?

2] Why would you use ISO 50 if its not a true ISO 50?

With Q2 (and SL2), Leica is doing something strange at ISO 50. While ISO 50 seems to have better DR, it contains some non-linearity, making it hard to use. That is why Auto-ISO starts at ISO 100 instead of ISO 50.

I have not seen any Leica documentation that says what the native ISO of Q2 or Q3 is.

However, Q3 Auto ISO also starts with ISO 100. Therefore it may make sense to treat ISO 100 as the base ISO. I hope that Bill Claff (P2P) will be able to publish measurements so we can get more insights about ISO 50 vs. ISO 100.

For the lucky owners of Q3, what is your experience of ISO 50 vs. ISO 100?

[city of bristol]

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

@ 1 I don't know

@ 2 If you want to use a wide aperture and run out of shutterspeed.

Why does leica not simply tell us the truth so as customers we can use the ISO 50 setting with that in mind?

[jaapv]

What truth? No camera maker lists such curves for the general public. We depend on sites like PhotonstoPhotos or DXO Best way to find out is to use the settings and judge for yourself. There is nothing exotic about a pull setting. 

[city of bristol]

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43 minutes ago, jaapv said:

What truth? No camera maker lists such curves for the general public. We depend on sites like PhotonstoPhotos or DXO Best way to find out is to use the settings and judge for yourself. There is nothing exotic about a pull setting. 

You previously stated on here that you get a stop more dynamic range using ISO 50 ,does that mean anything or just how you felt at that time ? Q 2

Edited July 4, 2023 by city of bristol

[jaapv]

Where did I state that?  A pull setting has less dynamic range in general. 

[city of bristol]

1 minute ago, jaapv said:

Where did I state that?  A pull setting has less dynamic range in general. 

May 26th 2020 regarding the iso 50 setting on the Q2 you said " you gain one stop dynamic range over ISO 100" according to photonstophotos,,, this is the puzzle for me as various sights say you gain a stop dynamic range at ISO 50 but that makes no sense if its a pull 50 ISO?

[SrMi]

8 minutes ago, city of bristol said:

May 26th 2020 regarding the iso 50 setting on the Q2 you said " you gain one stop dynamic range over ISO 100" according to photonstophotos,,, this is the puzzle for me as various sights say you gain a stop dynamic range at ISO 50 but that makes no sense if its a pull 50 ISO?

As said, the ISO 50 in Q2 is weird. P2P does show higher PDR at ISO 50, and Q2 owners have observed better shadow noise with ISO 50, but highlights clip much easier at ISO 50 and histogram does not seem correct.

Leica indicated to me that ISO 50 is pull, but Bill’s measurements indicate that it is not a pulled ISO.

With Q2 it is good advice to avoid ISO 50. I have no experience with  Q3.

[city of bristol]

Just now, SrMi said:

As said, the ISO 50 in Q2 is weird. P2P does show higher PDR at ISO 50, and Q2 owners have observed better shadow noise with ISO 50, but highlights clip much easier at ISO 50 and histogram does not seem correct.

Leica indicated to me that ISO 50 is pull, but Bill’s measurements indicate that it is not a pulled ISO.

With Q2 it is good advice to avoid ISO 50. I have no experience with  Q3.

Thanks ,that is very helpful ,i think with my Q2 i will run with ISO 100 unless some information tells me otherwise.

It does seem like a subject that most reviewers/ youtubers avoid and struggle with when you ask them directly as i did with mathphotographer.

[jaapv]

Ah yes, I remember the episode now. Maybe Leica figured out a way to lower the noise floor? They did that before on the M240 IIRC by shifting the Black Point. Or some kind of dual gain? Sensor technology is not as straightforward as it used to be. 
As I said, go by the results you actually get, not by the results you think you should get.
PtP is quite reliable, and he reports the results, not the theory. 

[city of bristol]

16 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Ah yes, I remember the episode now. Maybe Leica figured out a way to lower the noise floor? They did that before on the M240 IIRC by shifting the Black Point. Or some kind of dual gain? Sensor technology is not as straightforward as it used to be. 
As I said, go by the results you actually get, not by the results you think you should get.
PtP is quite reliable, and he reports the results, not the theory. 

Thanks i will do that ,i suppose i am looking for some official guideline to reassure me although i have taken some images at ISO 50 which were quite stunning in clarity to my eyes.

[jaapv]

Well, there you are - believe your eyes, not graphs.  

[Miltz]

The Base ISO is not 50, it’s 100. He is correct. If you shoot at 50 you will lose highlights faster than at 100. Shadow Image quality is the same. That being said, does it really matter? No it doesn’t. If you need 50 use it, if not use 100. That’s how I use all my cameras including the Nikon Z6, Olympus EM1 mark II, and Q2. 

[city of bristol]

20 hours ago, Miltz said:

The Base ISO is not 50, it’s 100. He is correct. If you shoot at 50 you will lose highlights faster than at 100. Shadow Image quality is the same. That being said, does it really matter? No it doesn’t. If you need 50 use it, if not use 100. That’s how I use all my cameras including the Nikon Z6, Olympus EM1 mark II, and Q2. 

Do you have an official link from leica literature to confirm this?

[Miltz]

6 hours ago, city of bristol said:

Do you have an official link from leica literature to confirm this?

He confirmed it in his video using science. I personally confirmed it on my Q2. The question is does it really matter? 

[SrMi]

34 minutes ago, Miltz said:

He confirmed it in his video using science. I personally confirmed it on my Q2. The question is does it really matter? 

 Note that both Bill Claff (P2P) and Jim Kasson measure higher DR at ISO 50 than at ISO 100.

[Miltz]

12 minutes ago, SrMi said:

 Note that both Bill Claff (P2P) and Jim Kasson measure higher DR at ISO 50 than at ISO 100.

I hold those two guys in high regard, I have yet to see them test the Q3. The Q2 at 50 ISO has better shadow detail but highlights get blown out much faster. So usable DR is higher at 100 ISO. Try it for yourself. The same holds true for my other cameras. Shadows improve but highlights get clipped. 

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[SrMi]

9 minutes ago, Miltz said:

I hold those two guys in high regard, I have yet to see them test the Q3. The Q2 at 50 ISO has better shadow detail but highlights get blown out much faster. So usable DR is higher at 100 ISO. Try it for yourself. The same holds true for my other cameras. Shadows improve but highlights get clipped. 

What we see with ISO 50 in Q2 and SL2 is not noticeable with any other cameras.

I agree that ISO 100 is more usable than ISO 50 in Q2.