First Impressions of 75mm Summarit

[marknorton]

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Maybe a comparison Summarit-Summilux 75mm would be possible now ...

 

Ruben, the latest issue of LFI included a comparison of the new Summarits with lenses like the Summilux ASPHs and the 90 AA, They couldn't obtain a 75 AA so used the Summilux instead. As you might expect, the Summarit was shaper wide open than the Summilux at the same aperture, hardly surprising given the Summilux goes 1.5 stops faster and is a 30 year old design. Still love it though!

 

The Summarits did well in comparison with lenses that cost twice as much, typically, and I feel sure they will sell well. Hopefully, the profits will contribute to a 28mm Summilux or 16mm Elmarit. I live in hope.

[tom0511]

I must admit that I am puzzled by the comments saying the photos appear dull. To my eye the images are a very close representation of the actual scenes - at least comparing my memory to the images on my computer. When Robert first mentioned the dull colors, I went back and tweaked the processing (e.g. levels) and had no trouble getting more pop out of the photos, but I didn't think they were as realistic. If there is a problem with the images, then it is my processing or monitor calibration, not the lens. Images taken with the Summarit compare favorably (on my computer) to my other Leica lenses in terms of color and rendition. Do others think the images are dull?

 

A comparison with shooting the same scene with a Summarit and an asph lens would show if there is a difference.

The portraits tonanlity I liked a lot, the leaves and the carussel images are nice but dont seem to have the last pop to my eye. However I think its easier to add contrast to a scene vs having too much contrast in it in the first step.

Regards, Tom

[lct]

I must admit that I am puzzled by the comments saying the photos appear dull...

So am i as your pics look very nice to me but your daughter's skin is slightly undersaturated IMO. Perhaps it comes from the ir-cut filter i don't know but i've noticed this effect already with the R-D1 and Leica ir-cuts. Not with all portraits though....

[Peter Branch]

So am i as your pics look very nice to me but your daughter's skin is slightly undersaturated IMO. Perhaps it comes from the ir-cut filter i don't know but i've noticed this effect already with the R-D1 and Leica ir-cuts. Not with all portraits though....

 

There is a well established difference in the rendition of skin related to the IR sensitivity of the imaging system. With IR the image includes details, such as blood vessels, from just under the surface. If the IR sensitivity of the system is eliminated then the image is limited to the skin surface.

 

Particularly with B&W images many "prefer" the "softer" look from systems with some IR sensitivity but like all subjective judgements there tend to be as many opinions as there are photographers.

[pelikan1931]

try adjust the tint level, move the slider a bit to the right, and also try underexpose by 1/3 stop.

[rosuna]

Ruben, the latest issue of LFI included a comparison of the new Summarits with lenses like the Summilux ASPHs and the 90 AA, They couldn't obtain a 75 AA so used the Summilux instead. As you might expect, the Summarit was shaper wide open than the Summilux at the same aperture, hardly surprising given the Summilux goes 1.5 stops faster and is a 30 year old design. Still love it though!

 

The Summarits did well in comparison with lenses that cost twice as much, typically, and I feel sure they will sell well. Hopefully, the profits will contribute to a 28mm Summilux or 16mm Elmarit. I live in hope.

 

Mark, I read the LFI article. It was interesting but very brief. I would like to test more parameters, like chromatic aberrations, sharpness at different distances, etc.

[marknorton]

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Ruben, I am sure Sean will go into the level of detail you're looking for when he posts his reviews on his site. Sadly, I will not be able to see them as I am banned for the foreseeable future...

[Shootist]

Ruben, I am sure Sean will go into the level of detail you're looking for when he posts his reviews on his site. Sadly, I will not be able to see them as I am banned for the foreseeable future...

Just how did you get banned from RR. What did you post something out of one of his reviews?

[gogopix]

I must admit that I am puzzled by the comments saying the photos appear dull. To my eye the images are a very close representation of the actual scenes - at least comparing my memory to the images on my computer. When Robert first mentioned the dull colors, I went back and tweaked the processing (e.g. levels) and had no trouble getting more pop out of the photos, but I didn't think they were as realistic. If there is a problem with the images, then it is my processing or monitor calibration, not the lens. Images taken with the Summarit compare favorably (on my computer) to my other Leica lenses in terms of color and rendition. Do others think the images are dull?

 

I am sorry I was so imprecise; what I mean by dull here is a lack of depth sense.

 

The images are quite nice; you caught an interesting expression in the portrait and the carousel is well focused.

 

What I have come to really like, and seems pay for! :-) is the Leica look; to me that is an intangible sense of 'presence'. You don't look at sharpness (these are not that eye blinding sharp of a S-K Digitar, nor saturated (Leica vs Zeiss). I see a 'slip' back towards more common 'good' glass.

 

The compromises are likely in some glass material, components, extra groups, floating lenses etc. To expect the same performance from a $1k as a 3-5K lens would put Leica out of business.

 

The REAL bargain these days are lenses like the 28mm 2.,8. It almost BEATS the 2.0 in presence from the shots I have seen (admitedly at 250kb jpgs)

 

Thank you sharing this, but sharing means you are going to get honest responses; I have between 40-60 lens (and have my medicare card!) so I have been collecting and judging lenses for too many years. Oh my eyes are still pretty 20/20 (after the obligatory readers for 0-18" !! LOL)

 

SO, there you have it. A snap opinion, that should be taken as just that; I am amazed that Sean actually often captures the essense of lenses not so much in his technical comparisons but in the full images where he shows the CHARACTER of the lenses

 

I too, await a review (and also from Guy M who really starts with a lenses character; if you dislike my comment, it was stimulated by that word 'dull' used for the comparison of the R 80 LUX a magnificent lens against the 90s, with much character and presence, but not the sharpest in the bag.)

 

The point will be this; these lenses were designed by Leica. I am sure at certain apertures and conditions that Leica saturation and presense will also come out. It will just not be quite a noticable as with the classic line.

'

best reagrds

Victor

[tom0511]

Here are some more 75 Summarit samples and crops. All shots taken at or near the minimum focus distance. My purpose for these photos was to see the out of focus rendering of the lens. You can see that I missed the focus slightly on the dogwood leaf, but it was moving in the wind and I was hand holding (swaying some).

 

Dogwood Leaf: iso 160, 1/750 sec, f 2.5, distance about 0.7 meters

Yellow Maple Leaf: iso 160, 1/1500 sec, f 2.5, distance about 0.7 meters

 

I hope it doesnt offend you if I post your image with slightly pp.

if you dont like me to then let me know and I will delete my answer

[gogopix]

This I think is the 50 lux

one of my first M8 shots.

I actually have the 75 lux, but $#%^& RF don't show lens! so I can't find any

 

:-)

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[hankg]

On the comments about the image of your daughter looking dull. The shot is a bit underexposed and the lighting is flat but you could easily set the raw processor for those conditions or make some simple global adjustments in photoshop. I realize you were trying to show what came out of the camera but with digital there really is no 'neutral' state unless you are talking about the raw data which you can not view except through the filter of a raw converter with the parameters of how the data is processed being set by the photographer. I took the liberty of making a minor adjustment in 2 versions .

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

[robsteve]

Call me crazy, but the portrait of the girl has that 'Mandler' look you see in the pre-ASPH Leica glass, like the old 2/90 and 1.4/75

 

Nice.

 

I noticed that too.

[robsteve]

I must admit that I am puzzled by the comments saying the photos appear dull. To my eye the images are a very close representation of the actual scenes - at least comparing my memory to the images on my computer. When Robert first mentioned the dull colors, I went back and tweaked the processing (e.g. levels) and had no trouble getting more pop out of the photos, but I didn't think they were as realistic. If there is a problem with the images, then it is my processing or monitor calibration, not the lens. Images taken with the Summarit compare favorably (on my computer) to my other Leica lenses in terms of color and rendition. Do others think the images are dull?

 

 

Mark:

 

I don't have a 75mm for the M8,but here are a few examples of what I was referring to. Both of these were shot in the 70mm setting of the 35-70mm. The leaves may have been at f3.4 and the girl at f4. I may have boosted the saturation on the leaves in Lightroom, but the girl shot is straight out of Flexcolor without any adjustments.

 

Forgetting about the saturation differences, the leaves shown below seem to have more fine detail and more contrast than the samples you posted. This was shot hand held too.

 

 

This one is the 35-70mm once again in the 70mm setting and shot on an overcast day.

 

[sean_reid]

Some follow-up info.

I am growing to like the push-on metal lens cap more and more - it doesn't seem as fiddly as the pinch-on style.

 

I've always found them to be the most ergonomic type caps ever designed. They pass the acid test of camera/lens ergonomics which is that one can mount and dismount them in the dark with no fumbling. I'm disappointed to see CV move away from them and the Zeiss lens cap design (for the smaller diameter ZMs) is the worst I've ever used. As you know, details like this do matter if one is using a lens day in and day out.

 

And...all four Summarits arrived here for testing....FINALLY!

 

Apparently the production lenses started to arrive at Leica USA last week although various European Leica divisions had some earlier. The pre-production models that were here (and that I wrote about in the first Summarits article) were not final versions and were not coded. I'll start testing all four, along with the other lenses and cameras being tested, and will shoot to have something up by next week.

 

------------------------------------------------------------

 

Since mark Norton chose to raise the following on this thread, I'll respond to it here in this thread...once only.

 

In short, lest this thread get sidetracked into yet another soap opera, Mark Norton was the first and only person to ever have his RR subscription suspended because he knowingly violated the rules of the site (actually bragging to me about it in a PM) and published a screen capture of a section from one of my articles. Andreas (this site's owner) has already removed the post and responded to it in this thread. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/35012-why-tri-elmar-discontinued-4.html#post388420

 

I think Andreas has made it quite clear that this sort of thing should not happen on the LUF.

 

I don't want Mark Gowin's thread derailed with this, and Mark Norton and I can discuss this off-list if needed. I've been harrassed and insulted by Mr. Norton (primarily off-list) for over a year now but that's really a matter he and I should sort out privately. I think the tones of some of his posts sometimes speak for themselves although he also contributes some excellent technical information to the forum.

 

If some feel the need to discuss this in a thread (I certainly do not) then lets at least make it a new thread so that people who actually want to read about the Summarits on this thread don't need to wade through the usual forum soap opera B.S. It can be on a separate thread that can be ignored as needed. Or, as I say, Mark and I can discuss this privately.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[stunsworth]

The problem I've found with the CV caps it that the felt wears down after a time and the caps won't stay on the lens. The worst lens for this is the 15mm, I assume because it isn't a full lens hood, and helps explain why it's the only lens I have with a scratch on the front element.

[sean_reid]

The problem I've found with the CV caps it that the felt wears down after a time and the caps won't stay on the lens. The worst lens for this is the 15mm, I assume because it isn't a full lens hood, and helps explain why it's the only lens I have with a scratch on the front element.

 

Hi Steve,

 

Its one of those old-fashioned things where one replaces the felt every few years. So far, my CV caps seem to be fine but some of my older LTM lens caps are wobbly. You're right that the CV 15 hood does allow the cap to move around a bit but it shouldn't ever reach the front element.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[stunsworth]

Hi Sean, it came off when I was taking the lens out of the bag, or putting it back, and the cap scrapped across the lens. My own fault really, I've been noting an increase in flare, so I might replace it and sell the old one at a bargain price - with the problem explained of course.

[sean_reid]

Hi Sean, it came off when I was taking the lens out of the bag, or putting it back, and the cap scrapped across the lens. My own fault really, I've been noting an increase in flare, so I might replace it and sell the old one at a bargain price - with the problem explained of course.

 

Ouch..I'm always afraid I'm going to do that with one of those fiddly little Zeiss caps (esp. with hoods on those lenses).

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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[c6gowin]

Thank you to everyone who has offered criticizm and pp advice. Hank, your version of my daughter's portrait looks much better. I also think that Thomas' pp of the yellow maple leaves photo brings it closer to the point of the leaf photo Robert posted. Victor's point about lens character is valid and I tried to touch on that earlier when I commented that I felt the 75 Summarit exhibits similar characteristics to my other Leica lens. I was trying to say the Summarit definitely has the Leica look without sounding like a Leica snob - if that makes sense. I gotta go now, but will try to expand on these thoughts and post some of my own attempts at getting pop out of the photos with better pp later in the day.