Leica Q3 Expectations vs Reality Impressions?

[bobtodrick]

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2 hours ago, BobsFirstLeica said:

I cannot comment on that.  What I can comment is, I can imagine someone spending premium $$$ for a premium camera from a premium manufacturer wanting to see all that "premium" perform right out of the box.  Imagine some of those poor brand-new Nikon Z8 owners not being able to mount their lenses properly then finding out they need to send it back for repairs.  Like many of you I've been in the "pro" digital photography world from the beginning.  A these pieces of sophisticated tech increase in complexity and capability the more they may develop problems.  OTOH, my new iPhones work pretty well right out of the box.  😀.

Bob

Than why do I get updated notifications to my iPhone on a monthly basis to fix bugs and security issues?

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[BobsFirstLeica]

1 hour ago, beewee said:

Having purchased the M10, SL2-S, and Q3 within weeks of initial launch, I’d say the Q3 is, by far, the most mature camera I’ve seen from Leica with the least amount of deficiencies. Also, having purchased the M8.2 soon after the launch of the M9 and shooting it for many years, I can easily say that the Q3 is way more mature than the M8.2 ever was, with all the firmware updates that’s been added over the years.

I’ve been following this thread but have yet to experienced any issues so far related to instability, EVF issues, LCD issues, or anything else that appear to be a bug but having used Leica cameras for this long, there are some practices that I’ve adopted and recommend everyone else to do as well.

Thanks for your comments.  I've been a Leica Q-owner for a relatively brief time (3 months) first with a Q2 and now a Q3.  I also have been reading this thread and have yet to experience issues brought up.  So, a thank you for the rest of your post since you are a "seasoned" Leica owner.  A hard reset after FW upgrade is not something I normally do but upon your recommendation I will do so when the next FW is released.

I do have one last question for you.  I asked this awhile ago in another thread but I did not get a good answer.  Have you used a 256gig card in your Q3?    It seemed as if everyone is using a 128gig card.  Thanks,

Bob

[beewee]

8 minutes ago, BobsFirstLeica said:

Have you used a 256gig card in your Q3?    It seemed as if everyone is using a 128gig card

Yes, I’ve been using the 256 GB Kingston Canvas React Plus UHS-II SDXC card on the SL2-S since 2020 and on the Q3 since a got the camera a little over 1 week go and never had trouble with these cards.

[BobsFirstLeica]

6 minutes ago, bobtodrick said:

Than why do I get updated notifications to my iPhone on a monthly basis to fix bugs and security issues?

Well, my "current" iPhone has never frozen up, the battery life is excellent, the AF is accurate, and the exposure you see on the LCD is what is recorded.  As I stated previously these are technological marvels all bundled up in a small package and I recognize there will be FW and software issues that need to be fixed.  But I get your comment.  I'm making comments in this thread based upon digital camera manufacturers' initial offerings and the need to be a little patient to work the bugs out.  My iPhone, at least to my way of thinking, is in another category.   There was a time my patience wore thin.....thinking back to MSDOS and the first iterations of Windows.  Those were frustrating days!

Bob

[LocalHero1953]

23 hours ago, LatestWord33 said:

1.  The AF is great for people, but hopeless for architecture and landscapes. The boxes around people and the circles on eyes frankly look stupid.

 

Suggestion: for architecture and buildings, don't use Body/Face/Eye recognition?😉

[bobtodrick]

8 hours ago, BobsFirstLeica said:

Well, my "current" iPhone has never frozen up, the battery life is excellent, the AF is accurate, and the exposure you see on the LCD is what is recorded.  As I stated previously these are technological marvels all bundled up in a small package and I recognize there will be FW and software issues that need to be fixed.  But I get your comment.  I'm making comments in this thread based upon digital camera manufacturers' initial offerings and the need to be a little patient to work the bugs out.  My iPhone, at least to my way of thinking, is in another category.   There was a time my patience wore thin.....thinking back to MSDOS and the first iterations of Windows.  Those were frustrating days!

Bob

I agree with you.

I feel (and it is only a feeling) that the camera manufacturers actually purposely do 90% of the R&D on a camera, and then wait for customer feedback to fine tune the product through firmware updates.

This however does not excuse things like random glitches which are a quality control issue.  But in reality they have already sold a lot of Q3’s and I have a feeling the vast majority of them are working just fine.

That’s the problem with forums…some one has a problem…a bunch of people pile on with how terrible that is and how they will be expecting it and all of a sudden one persons issue is four pages long and anyone reading would think it is affecting every camera.

[Pelu2010]

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13 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

There isn’t a pro level camera introduced in the last 15 years that hasn’t needed firmware updates to fix issues found by users…there is no way a development team can foresee everything.

Leica users are the only ones that I have found to expect things to be perfect right out of the box.

Many of them don’t seem to have a grip on reality.

true so true .... 

I bet the beta team did its best to address the issues. 

 

[Pelu2010]

9 hours ago, BobsFirstLeica said:

Well, my "current" iPhone has never frozen up, the battery life is excellent, the AF is accurate, and the exposure you see on the LCD is what is recorded.  As I stated previously these are technological marvels all bundled up in a small package and I recognize there will be FW and software issues that need to be fixed.  But I get your comment.  I'm making comments in this thread based upon digital camera manufacturers' initial offerings and the need to be a little patient to work the bugs out.  My iPhone, at least to my way of thinking, is in another category.   There was a time my patience wore thin.....thinking back to MSDOS and the first iterations of Windows.  Those were frustrating days!

Bob

Hey Bob, 

there are several modes to operate the camera in which the EVF will not show you the correct result. 

It depends on how you set up the camera and what situation you're in, to get the perfect WISIWIG impression. 

cheers Peter 

[BobsFirstLeica]

44 minutes ago, Pelu2010 said:

Hey Bob, 

there are several modes to operate the camera in which the EVF will not show you the correct result. 

It depends on how you set up the camera and what situation you're in, to get the perfect WISIWIG impression. 

cheers Peter 

Hmm?  Maybe I'm being dense here but I've not encountered this.  Just used the default settings for stills and video and they've worked ok.  Occasional edit in the phone.

Bob

[nariza7]

First Hour Impressions:
Coming from a sony user (rx1rii, a7riii). Have owned Leica Q years ago briefly.

Ergonomics:

1. Totally not used to the PASM setting where the dials determine what mode it is as opposed to selecting the mode explicitly (ex, for aperture priority mode, you don't select A like on sony, but you make shutter and iso on auto settings while the lens is on a specific aperture). Was able to set it how I want either way though, so it's no biggy.
2. I felt like the Leica Q was kinda bulky back then, but after getting used to sony a7 bodies for awhile, now I think the Q3 (Q series in general) has a nice compact form factor.
3. Using the Q2 leica hand grip only which does make it feel better to hold, but definitely need the thumb grip to fully feel solid when holding. The Q that I had awhile back had it, and it felt great.
4. Removing the hood makes it feel more compact. Switched it out with a sony 49mm lens cap. Will try a stepdown ring later to see if it vignettes
5. Q3 did get warm from setup and testing out stills/video mode, but didnt get too hot yet. Was not testing for heat, but just noticed it after some time.

Stills:

1. Shot under 10 test stills and was able to directly import it into Lightroom 5 standalone (last standalone LR that can be installed on macs after mojave due to loss of 32bit support which LR6 needed for authorization or something). Didn't need to use Adobe DNG Converter like how I usually do with newer sony/canon raw files.
2. AF felt snappy for stills. Havent tested with moving subjects and other stuff. Just pointed and half pressed which felt nice.

Video:

1. Video OIS only has ON/OFF while stills has ON/OFF/AUTO. Video ois was better than I thought, but still a little shaky at times. Great when hand holding with two hands and slowly moving it. Not so good if holding with one hand as its too shaky.
2. Video 4k and 8k did show some minor crop while 1080p had barely or none. This was done by toggling video/stills and noticing the frame change between them. Only tested in L-log, so im not sure if other gamma/picture profiles do the same.
3. Video autofocus (not with subject detection) was kind of slow, but it's near quiet with the lens when recording. When you have video mode on and not recording, the lens will make noise to keep focusing. I think it does what Canon R5 does where it slows the lens focusing to make it near silent.

 

 

[criogenics]

I returned my Q3 after trying it for 3 weeks. I wanted to keep it but in the end I don't think my main issues with it could be fixed. My background is an event and dance photographer. I have shot multiple weddings with the Q2.

Pros:

1. AMAZING quality even at extremely high ISOs. I shoot a lot of nighttime events and boy does the Q3 shine over the Q2 at high ISO. Definitely the biggest upgrade in my view.

2. Finally the DNG files are compressed in camera. Smaller raw files at 60MP than Q2 at 47MP.

3. Amazing M-DNG implementation when you don't need full resolution files. Makes everything much faster in post-processing.

Cons:

1. Terrible EVF blackout. I measured it in slow-motion with my iPhone, and it averaged to about 0.4 seconds of blackout after each shot, regardless of electronic or mechanical shutter. My Fujifilm bodies averaged about 0.15 seconds. This is unacceptable and you will miss SO many shots if you shoot any kind of moving subjects. You simply don't have time to adjust to the next shot with such a long blackout. Probably the deal-breaker for me since I don't think it's fixable in firmware.

2. Weird EVF issues in low light. For some reason, as you increase the ISO in darker scenes, the EVF gets more and more laggy as you increase ISO. It makes zero sense and none of my other cameras have this issue. It's like it is spending extra processing power raising the image brightness in the EVF to compensate for low light, and lagging the EVF in the process. There seems to be no way to turn it off, I thought it was the "Exposure Preview" setting but both settings still gave laggy EVF, albeit the PASM mode made it even worse.

3. The tilt screen is really hard to deploy. You need to dig into it with your fingers to pull out the screen. I found it extremely hard to do in a hurry.

 

As others have pointed out, I'm also a bit disappointed by online reviewers. No one but Jono Slack has even mentioned the blackout, and no one has commented about the EVF in low light.

[katieg]

On 6/29/2023 at 2:17 AM, LatestWord33 said:

I am considering selling mine if various issues aren't sorted in the near future. The main cons are the following when compared with the Q2:

1.  The AF is great for people, but hopeless for architecture and landscapes. The boxes around people and the circles on eyes frankly look stupid.

2. The exposures and consequently EVF/LCD live view images go wrong when the shutter button is half depressed

3. The freezes

4. The battery life is limited.  You could go close to a whole day of heavy shooting on the Q2 on a single battery. You might be on your third battery if you did that on a Q3.

In my view thew bulk of the above problems are related to a poor implementation of the AF.

It is potentially a great camera, but will require significant firmware upgrades to improve on the Q2. As a Q2 owner, I would advise people considering the upgrade to wait until these issues are sorted. 

I agree completely, have had my Q3 for a week and all of these issues/gripes are similar to mine. The iAF is pretty mediocre. It becomes a distraction to the experience so I have gone back to single point, spot focus like I did on the Q2 and use on my Q2m.

It will not compare to modern day DSLR 3D tracking modes (Nikon Z8 user here).
 

Really disappointed with battery life, glad I just got my second battery for it. Was used to all day shooting on one charge with Q2, this is nearly impossible with Q3 as far as I can tell. I am using the Q3 batteries exclusively on this camera and not mixing with Q2 batteries. And I am not even using video functionality. It seems the iAF / tracking modes appear to drain battery.

The low light ISO performance is not “that” much improved over previous generation. I am primarily a monochrome shooter in my personal work and I held on to my Q2m to compare and I think I’m still spoiled by monochrome sensor low light performance. Q2M will definitely remain in my kit.

 

All that being said, since it’s so early in the product launch I will hold onto the Q3 and hope firmware upgrades improve some of the gripes I have. I had planned on using it as my second body/personal camera/travel to the Z8 but for now I think I will keep using the Q2m more than Q3…if you ask me today to decide, I’d lean towards selling my Q3.

[BobsFirstLeica]

4 hours ago, katieg said:

I agree completely, have had my Q3 for a week and all of these issues/gripes are similar to mine. The iAF is pretty mediocre. It becomes a distraction to the experience so I have gone back to single point, spot focus like I did on the Q2 and use on my Q2m.

It will not compare to modern day DSLR 3D tracking modes (Nikon Z8 user here).
 

Really disappointed with battery life, glad I just got my second battery for it. Was used to all day shooting on one charge with Q2, this is nearly impossible with Q3 as far as I can tell. I am using the Q3 batteries exclusively on this camera and not mixing with Q2 batteries. And I am not even using video functionality. It seems the iAF / tracking modes appear to drain battery.

The low light ISO performance is not “that” much improved over previous generation. I am primarily a monochrome shooter in my personal work and I held on to my Q2m to compare and I think I’m still spoiled by monochrome sensor low light performance. Q2M will definitely remain in my kit.

 

All that being said, since it’s so early in the product launch I will hold onto the Q3 and hope firmware upgrades improve some of the gripes I have. I had planned on using it as my second body/personal camera/travel to the Z8 but for now I think I will keep using the Q2m more than Q3…if you ask me today to decide, I’d lean towards selling my Q3.

Horses for courses.  I suppose I am getting older yet more forgiving of what my use case for the Q3 is.  Recently I was on holiday in Europe and used my Q2 as my only cam for the entire 2 week trip.  Had an X-H2 with lenses which would have been snappier, quicker, longer battery life, better tracking (had the 70-300).  But as a travel cam the Q2 was absolutely fine.  Got the images (about 3000) I wanted and was a happy camper.  The little I have used the Q3,  it will be the same save a little battery life.  But as I mentioned in a previous post, my shooting style for years, especially on holiday, is to shoot then turn the cam off saving battery life.

For the previous poster, I would not use the "Q" for an event as an immediate backup but I will bring it along as a third.  In fact today I am shooting a 75th birthday party (no I didn't shoot 74 preciously 😁), and will have the Q3 with me and will test it out (primary -- A1's).  I've found the face/eye detection to be accurate and fast-enough.  So, we'll see.  

Bottom line for me, the Q is a very fine, if expensive, tool for just what I want to use it for.  Not being an owner of a Q2M I cannot comment.  However, everything I've seen makes me think it is a prime performer.  So far....... very pleased! (and I also own a Z9 for my second photographer to use).

Bob

[bobtodrick]

1 hour ago, BobsFirstLeica said:

Horses for courses.  I suppose I am getting older yet more forgiving of what my use case for the Q3 is.  Recently I was on holiday in Europe and used my Q2 as my only cam for the entire 2 week trip.  Had an X-H2 with lenses which would have been snappier, quicker, longer battery life, better tracking (had the 70-300).  But as a travel cam the Q2 was absolutely fine.  Got the images (about 3000) I wanted and was a happy camper.  The little I have used the Q3,  it will be the same save a little battery life.  But as I mentioned in a previous post, my shooting style for years, especially on holiday, is to shoot then turn the cam off saving battery life.

For the previous poster, I would not use the "Q" for an event as an immediate backup but I will bring it along as a third.  In fact today I am shooting a 75th birthday party (no I didn't shoot 74 preciously 😁), and will have the Q3 with me and will test it out (primary -- A1's).  I've found the face/eye detection to be accurate and fast-enough.  So, we'll see.  

Bottom line for me, the Q is a very fine, if expensive, tool for just what I want to use it for.  Not being an owner of a Q2M I cannot comment.  However, everything I've seen makes me think it is a prime performer.  So far....... very pleased! (and I also own a Z9 for my second photographer to use).

Bob

Nailed it.

The Q series of cameras do what they were designed for (travel, street, documentary) extremely well.

For some reason people seem to feel the Q3 should be a Holy Grail that does everything.

[beewee]

22 minutes ago, bobtodrick said:

Nailed it.

The Q series of cameras do what they were designed for (travel, street, documentary) extremely well.

For some reason people seem to feel the Q3 should be a Holy Grail that does everything.

No matter how good the Q cameras are, I would never recommend it as the only camera for someone unless they have a very, very, very particular use case that matches the capabilities of the Q. 

The Q is best suited as a camera that complements another system camera, whether M, SL, or both. The most fascinating thing about the Q is that, although it overlaps with a lot of the M and SL system capabilities, it doesn’t compete with either system and excels in very specific areas that neither can do at its price, size, and weight.

The way I see three camera systems is as follows:

• M - you want full control, you want to work to get that exact image you have in mind, and you enjoy every part of the process to get there.
• Q - you want something small, compact, versatile, and something that can help automate most of the decisions so you can enjoy the experience of a unique moment while capturing the memories at the highest quality possible, all the while without standing out of the crowd with a big or slow camera to capture that may disrupt the spontaneity of the moment, and most importantly, you are happy doing it with a ~26mm field of view
• SL - you want to capture something that is very technically challenging due to either the environment, lighting, or focal length requirements, and you want to do so with the highest image quality possible without lugging a giant medium format system and dealing with all the additional challenges of such a system such as limited lens choice, limited depth of field which may require focus stacking, and overall having to carry a whole lot more gear

Edited July 1, 2023 by beewee

[Tobers]

I got my Q3 on launch day. I have many years of experience with Leica digital cameras including the Q1. I skipped the Q2 to wait for the Q3 and had an X100V in the meantime.

Views so far:

It is exactly what I expected. Same amazing lens, better sensor, and very useful tilt screen.

While small it's also chunky due to the length/size of the lens. This makes it less suitable as a go-anywhere travel camera than the X100V (which is excellent and much more compact).

But...the images from the Q3 are superior. Every now and then there's one that just has a wow factor. The combination of the contrasty lens, the shallow f1.7 depth of field and the 28mm angle of view yields the sort of image I've only ever got with an M10 and 24 Summilux.

The additional croppability is really useful and I utilise 90mm frequently. 

The tilt screen is also an excellent feature, though i concur that it spoils the elegant lines of the back of the camera. 

I'm prepared to manage the awkward size/shape of the Q3 in return for the super images it produces. I just returned from a 2 week motorbike tour of France with the Q3 over my shoulder the entire time (sometimes under my jacket) and finally bonded with it. Pictures to come in the other thread in a few days. 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Tobers

[LocalHero1953]

9 hours ago, criogenics said:

AMAZING quality even at extremely high ISOs. I shoot a lot of nighttime events and boy does the Q3 shine over the Q2 at high ISO. Definitely the biggest upgrade in my view.

 

8 hours ago, katieg said:

The iAF is pretty mediocre. It becomes a distraction to the experience so I have gone back to single point, spot focus like I did on the Q2 and use on my Q2m.

...........

The low light ISO performance is not “that” much improved over previous generation. 

 

3 hours ago, BobsFirstLeica said:

 I've found the face/eye detection to be accurate and fast-enough.  

Am I the only one here feeling VERY confused?

Edited July 1, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[criogenics]

25 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

 

 

Am I the only one here feeling VERY confused?

The high-iso performance is a lot better. It's backed up by multiple tests, including Reidreviews. I found the autofocus to be usable. It did do the weird thing where the EVF looks pixellated for a second while it decides between phase and contrast AF.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[city of bristol]

My problem with face detection is that the camera is deciding where to focus so i never use it.

I prefer single point AF then recompose if need be even with my olympus camera.

[BobsFirstLeica]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

4 hours ago, BobsFirstLeica said:

 I've found the face/eye detection to be accurate and fast-enough.  

Am I the only one here feeling VERY confused?

For my part quoted, I am comparing it to the Q2.  The Q3's eye/face is fine and better than the Q2.  Not up to Sony and Nikon but perfectly fine.  I can only judge empirically about the others you mentioned beyond reading reviews and looking at sample images.  If I do not use face/eye detection I use single point AF as I have done for years on all my other cams and the Q2.  

I can see your being confused.  Someone said in another post the half case scratches the Q3 because it is not secure.  Not my experience yet.  It may be I am not only just using my fingers to secure the lock at the bottom, but use Swiss Army knife's screw driver to give it a little extra pressure to secure.

I know I am a relative newbie on this forum but my experience in a lot of forums is you will get a diverse amount of info to digest.  Hard to make a distinction at times between people's unfamiliarity with or lack of skill with a new cam and an actual problem internally......and even some of both.  I bought the Q3 based upon a solid experience with the Q2.  I trust that Leica has set a standard for reliability and function that will be applied to the Q3 and, hopefully all their new products.

Bob

Bob