M lenses that fit CL

[AdHox]

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Has anybody compiled a list of M lenses that can be adapted for use on the CL - whether Leica or other brands? Or, if the list is shorter, a list of M lenses that can’t be adapted to the CL. 🤔

Out of curiosity I tried to mount a lens and found that the back of the lens projected beyond the M-L adapter so it physically would not fit on the CL.😢

If there are otherwise equivalent lenses but only one of them would fit, that might be a factor when buying.

[tommonego@gmail.com]

I would say any M lens that doesn't collapse too far (50 Elmar or the 90mm colllapsibles) or like the 21 Super Angulons have a conponent that projects behind the mount. I use my 50 V1 Summicron on my CL, no problem in the collaped state, and a 25mm Canon that just fits. I think your list would be shorter and easier if you go with Leica's no-no list, even that is conservative. Also with the collapsibles you can always mount them expanded, put a piece of tape on the barrel so you won't collapse them. Also the Leica Mto L adapter is the way to go.

Edited May 9, 2023 by tommonego@gmail.com

[pop]

You can mount any lens that you can mount on a digital M body. I think you should use the Leica M to L adapter. It's strongly advised to mount collapsible lenses in the uncollapsed state, but this is merely to prevent the lens from scratching the throat of the camera.

The throat of the CL is as wide as the throat of any M camera and the clearance between the rear end of the lens and the shutter curtain is about the same. I have used and collapsed the 50mm Elmar without any problems.

[dpitt]

21 hours ago, tommonego@gmail.com said:

I would say any M lens that doesn't collapse too far (50 Elmar or the 90mm colllapsibles) or like the 21 Super Angulons have a conponent that projects behind the mount. I use my 50 V1 Summicron on my CL, no problem in the collaped state, and a 25mm Canon that just fits. I think your list would be shorter and easier if you go with Leica's no-no list, even that is conservative. Also with the collapsibles you can always mount them expanded, put a piece of tape on the barrel so you won't collapse them. Also the Leica Mto L adapter is the way to go.

I think all collapsibles can be collapsed once they are mounted since the L mount is wider than that of the M. The 21 Super Angulon should fit, but maybe it will show pink corners as it does on my M9. Not sure if the sensor of the CL will be better suited than my M9 is to the very uncommon angle of the light rays hitting it in the corners with the Super Angulon.

[wizard]

vor einer Stunde schrieb dpitt:

Not sure if the sensor of the CL will be better suited than my M9

I am not too familiar with the digital Leica CL, but seem to remember that it is not full frame, but APS-C. If so, there should be less problems with pink corners on the CL, as its sensor will only make use of the more central portion of the 21 Super Angulon's image circle (and, of course, the same applies to any other FF lens).

[dpitt]

4 hours ago, wizard said:

I am not too familiar with the digital Leica CL, but seem to remember that it is not full frame, but APS-C. If so, there should be less problems with pink corners on the CL, as its sensor will only make use of the more central portion of the 21 Super Angulon's image circle (and, of course, the same applies to any other FF lens).

Thank you. I did not think of that. It should then perform even a bit better than on my M8.

[ramarren]

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On 5/8/2023 at 10:25 PM, AdHox said:

Has anybody compiled a list of M lenses that can be adapted for use on the CL - whether Leica or other brands? Or, if the list is shorter, a list of M lenses that can’t be adapted to the CL. 🤔

Out of curiosity I tried to mount a lens and found that the back of the lens projected beyond the M-L adapter so it physically would not fit on the CL.😢

If there are otherwise equivalent lenses but only one of them would fit, that might be a factor when buying.

(bolded) That's kind of my simple test: If a lens projects beyond the Leica M Adapter L, it likely should not be used or should only be fitted with extreme care to be sure it does not interfere with anything in the CL body. You really don't want a lens to tangle with the shutter curtains or hit the sensor... 

Not that I have an overly huge collection of lenses, or have tested any others I don't own... but I have a dozen LTM and M-Bayonet lenses. All of them fit (with LTM->M-bayonet adapters in the case of the LTM lenses) with the Leica M-Adapter-L and work well on the CL sensor:

Voigtländer HyperWide 10/5.6 Aspheric
Voigtländer Color-Skopar 21/3.5 II
MS-Optical Aporia 24/2
Voigtländer Color-Skopar 28/3.5 (LTM)
Leica Summicron-M 28/2 ASPH
Leica Summilux 35/1.4 (1972)
SMC-Pentax-L 43/1.9 Special (LTM)
Leica Summicron-M 50/2
Voigtländer Color-Skopar 50/2.5 (LTM)
Leica Summarit-M 75/2.4
Minolta M-Rokkor 90/4 (identical to Leica Elmar-C 90/4)
Leica Hektor 135/4.5 (1960)

G

[pop]

3 hours ago, ramarren said:

If a lens projects beyond the Leica M Adapter L, it likely should not be used or should only be fitted with extreme care to be sure it does not interfere with anything in the CL body. You really don't want a lens to tangle with the shutter curtains or hit the sensor...

If a lens projects beyond the M-L adapter, it will also project beyond the lens mount of an M body, be it digital or film. M bodies have shutter curtains, too, and nobody so far thought that a collapsible lens built for the M series can not be used on an M type camera because it projects into the body.

Like with an M body, it's probably wise to mount and unmount collapsible lenses in the extracted state, so as not to scratch the inside of the camera.

[lct]

On 5/9/2023 at 4:34 PM, pop said:

You can mount any lens that you can mount on a digital M body.

Not sure i would say this. I can mount my S-A 21/3.4 on digital Ms for instance but not on the CL. The optical cell of the lens intrudes too far. 

[pop]

3 hours ago, lct said:

Not sure i would say this. I can mount my S-A 21/3.4 on digital Ms for instance but not on the CL. The optical cell of the lens intrudes too far. 

I find this a bit surprising. I can find reviews in the internet which tell that there even was a variant that could be used on an M5 or (film) CL. That certainly would provide more than sufficient clearance for the shutter, and there are no other obstacles in the body of the (digital) CL I'm aware of.

[lct]

Just a fact sorry. The lens intrudes so far into the body that it would hit the black innards of the camera around the sensor.

[tommonego@gmail.com]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb pop:

I find this a bit surprising. I can find reviews in the internet which tell that there even was a variant that could be used on an M5 or (film) CL. That certainly would provide more than sufficient clearance for the shutter, and there are no other obstacles in the body of the (digital) CL I'm aware of.

On the CL the cavity going back to the sensor is just a little bit larger than the sensor, much smaller than on an M camera even an M8. My 25 Canon just fits, it has touched the shoulder of the cavity if I don't put it on flat. The SA lenses are much bigger and more of the lens is behing the mount. I wouldn't try to put a 50 2.8 Elmar or a 90 Elmar on collapsed. 

[ramarren]

7 hours ago, pop said:

If a lens projects beyond the M-L adapter, it will also project beyond the lens mount of an M body, be it digital or film. M bodies have shutter curtains, too, and nobody so far thought that a collapsible lens built for the M series can not be used on an M type camera because it projects into the body.

Like with an M body, it's probably wise to mount and unmount collapsible lenses in the extracted state, so as not to scratch the inside of the camera.

The M-mount registration is ~27.95mm. The L-mount registration is 20.00mm. The M Adapter L is therefore 7.95mm thick in order to provide infinity registration for M-mount lenses. So for a rigid mount lens to project into the body cavity of an L-mount body plus adapter it would have to extend more than 7.95mm past the M's lens mount.

Many M-mount lenses project past the flange into the M camera body, few if any by more than 7.95mm. Anything that does not project past the M-Adapter-L cannot touch anything in the interior of the CL body: it's just not long enough. 

The M camera interior is largely a big rectangular box with the rangefinder cam wheel at the top to engage the moving part of the lens focus helicoid; there's not much for a lens to hit until it gets about 26mm past the mounting flange, which is where the shutter curtains are approximately. The CL camera interior is NOT a big rectangular box ... it has protrusions and baffling that fits fairly tightly around the shutter and sensor and reduce space above and below the sensor, and has the electrical contacts for L-mount lens controls. So if a collapsible M-mount lens projects more than 8mm past the M-Adapter-L, it runs the risk of mechanical interference with the CL body and its internal bits. 

Simple logic says "if no part of a lens goes past the M-Adapter-L back flange, the lens will fit" and also says "if a collapsed lens extends past the M-Adapter-L back flange, be very careful how you fit it to a CL body, and be careful if you collapse it that it doesn't hit some part in the interior of the camera body."

Leica has always recommended NOT fitting or removing collapsible lenses in the collapsed state even on an M body to prevent mechanical interference.

BTW: Leica provides a listing of M-mount lenses that they consider compatible with the M-Adapter-L here. This list doesn't include Voigtländer, Zeiss ZM, Konica, Canon LTM, or any other non-Leica lenses, of course. But if you look at the physical descriptions of these lenses and see how they compare to the other non-listed lenses, it will be pretty obvious what isn't going to be easily compatible. 

G

[Brilliant Observer]

Ramarren , thank you and sorry, too technical, gives a lot of headache. Mr Leica used all his M lenses on his CL, I use all my M lenses on my CL including 35AA, all my friends with Leica systems L, M, R, use R lenses on M, R&M lenses on L. 

To whom it may concern, the answer is YES, you can use M lenses and R lenses with corresponding adapters on your lovely CL.

With film CL user, can you not say things like' I can use M lenses on my film CL', you having a laugh?   

Edited May 13, 2023 by Brilliant Observer

[lct]

9 hours ago, Brilliant Observer said:

To whom it may concern, the answer is YES, you can use M lenses and R lenses with corresponding adapters on your lovely CL.

Sorry but as lovely as the digital CL may be, the answer is no when the lens intrudes too far into the body. I've given an example with the S-A 21/3.4 above.  Same for lenses like Elmar 50/2.8 in collapsed position. Some intruding lenses can fit though e.g. CV Heliar 15/4.5 v2, CV Skopar 21/4 or ZM Biogon 21/4.5.
Edit: For those having never seen a Super-Angulon 21/3.4, the lens looks like this:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited May 14, 2023 by lct

[Brilliant Observer]

1 hour ago, lct said:

Sorry but as lovely as the digital CL may be, the answer is no when the lens intrudes too far into the body. I've given an example with the S-A 21/3.4 above.  Same for lenses like Elmar 50/2.8 in collapsed position. Some intruding lenses can fit though e.g. CV Heliar 15/4.5 v2, CV Skopar 21/4 or ZM Biogon 21/4.5.
Edit: For those having never seen a Super-Angulon 21/3.4, the lens looks like this:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Oh, yes for these lenses, they are visibly too risky.

[ramarren]

8 hours ago, lct said:

Sorry but as lovely as the digital CL may be, the answer is no when the lens intrudes too far into the body. I've given an example with the S-A 21/3.4 above.  Same for lenses like Elmar 50/2.8 in collapsed position. Some intruding lenses can fit though e.g. CV Heliar 15/4.5 v2, CV Skopar 21/4 or ZM Biogon 21/4.5.
Edit: For those having never seen a Super-Angulon 21/3.4, the lens looks like this:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Just curious: What is the distance from the lens flange seat to the back of the rear element bezel on the S-A 21? It looks more than 8mm, which means it would project past the rear mounting flange of the M Adapter L, which makes it risky (at least) by my prior guideline.  

G

[lct]

3 hours ago, ramarren said:

Just curious: What is the distance from the lens flange seat to the back of the rear element bezel on the S-A 21? It looks more than 8mm, which means it would project past the rear mounting flange of the M Adapter L, which makes it risky (at least) by my prior guideline.  

G

I don't have a measuring instrument at hand but I would say about 19mm.

[ramarren]

Yeah, that's a lot ...! 😱 

G

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[odin]

My Elmarit-M 1:2.8/21, (E60, sn.3718451) can not be used on CL, you can mount it at the min.focus (0.7 m), but will hit the baffel at approx.1.1-1.2 m.

On my TL2 it is no problem.