Pre-Asph Summilux 35 vs. Nokton Classic 35mm f/1.4 II

[mediumformula]

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I'm looking for a compact, light weight but fast 35mm lens for film and monochrome digital.  I'm looking at both the pre-aspherical Summilux (version 2) and the Voigtlander 1.4 Nokton II.  Both of these lenses are small and compact and apparently produce good results when stopped down and have some character when wide open.    Is the Nokton essentially a modern re-issue of the classic Summilux 35 pre-aspherical?   Does anyone have experience with both.  Used versions of the Summilux are approaching $3000.  Does the Nokton have 1/3 aperture stops or 1/2?  Any insight on these two lenses would be helpful.  I don't mind spending the extra money if the Summilux is notably better than the Voigtlander.   I'm mainly interested in the lens for shooting documentary and ethnographic/anthropological fieldwork.  So I don't want something too dreamy, as accurate reproduction of the subjects and their environment are important.  I currently use my 50 Summilux Asph for this work but would like a wider (and something smaller and lighter weight) lens option as well.  Thank you. 

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[lct]

I don't shoot film anymore and i use both Summilux 35/1.4 v2 and Nokton 35/1.4 SC v2 on M11 and digital CL mainly. The Nokton is sharper with less flare and the Summilux has more glow. Both are character lenses and none is as sharp as modern asph lenses so i'm not sure i would use either for accurate work. Both have 1/2 aperture stops.

[mediumformula]

2 hours ago, lct said:

I don't shoot film anymore and i use both Summilux 35/1.4 v2 and Nokton 35/1.4 SC v2 on M11 and digital CL mainly. The Nokton is sharper with less flare and the Summilux has more glow. Both are character lenses and none is as sharp as modern asph lenses so i'm not sure i would use either for accurate work. Both have 1/2 aperture stops.

Thanks.  Sounds like the Nokton has a more "modern" rendering than the Summilux.

[hansvons]

I owned the Nokton classic and sold it. It’s well-made and a true f 1.4 lens and as such a bargain, but I didn’t like the rendering. At open aperture it glows like old Leica glass (I think the original glow is nicer) and is very soft. It vignettes strongly on the SL2-S and smears in the corners unacceptably (for me). Plus the vignetting part renders cooler than the centre. I found it usable at f 2.8 but still nothing to write home about. 
 

The f 2.5 Color Skolopar is even smaller and renders nicer images, but overall shows the same issues on digital sensors. This, however, is quite different on film as the smearing and vignetting is much less pronounced.
 

The same behavior (digital vs film) can be seen with the Summicron ASPH, only the vignetting doesn’t show that cooling effect and is less pronounced and the smearing is complete gone a f 4/5,6. It’s in a different league—you get what you pay. 
 

If I were in the market for a sharp 35mm M lens, the Summicron ASPH would be it. 
 

 

 

[hdmesa]

5 hours ago, mediumformula said:

I'm looking for a compact, light weight but fast 35mm lens for film and monochrome digital.  I'm looking at both the pre-aspherical Summilux (version 2) and the Voigtlander 1.4 Nokton II.  Both of these lenses are small and compact and apparently produce good results when stopped down and have some character when wide open.    Is the Nokton essentially a modern re-issue of the classic Summilux 35 pre-aspherical?   Does anyone have experience with both.  Used versions of the Summilux are approaching $3000.  Does the Nokton have 1/3 aperture stops or 1/2?  Any insight on these two lenses would be helpful.  I don't mind spending the extra money if the Summilux is notably better than the Voigtlander.   I'm mainly interested in the lens for shooting documentary and ethnographic/anthropological fieldwork.  So I don't want something too dreamy, as accurate reproduction of the subjects and their environment are important.  I currently use my 50 Summilux Asph for this work but would like a wider (and something smaller and lighter weight) lens option as well.  Thank you. 

If you currently use the 50 Summilux ASPH and are happy with that, you may prefer the new Voigtlander 35 1.5 ASPH over the two choices you mentioned. You could also consider the Voigtlander 35 1.2 III. Both these Voigtlanders have the added benefit of 0.5m close focus.

Edited May 1, 2023 by hdmesa

[jimmielx]

May also be worth considering the close focus distance of each of the two lenses mentioned.

The Nokton 1.4 has MFD of 0.7m.
The Summilux v2 has an MFD of 1m. 

[Keith (M)]

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There is a very long thread on the Nokton II f1.4 that may contain information or links useful to you.

[FrozenInTime]

@mediumformula Fred Miranda has direct comparison shots between the Voigtländer and Leica Summilux SR reissue that you might find interesting.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1779165/3

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

I own and use on B&W film a late German pre-aspherical Summilux and both versions of the 35/1.4 Nokton.  They are all character lenses, but pretty sharp stopped down.  In my experience, the Voigtlanders are probably more practical -- sharper wide open w/ more contrast and w/o flare issues but lacking the Leica glow.  In fact the Voigtlander can be used wide open w/o concern.  All of them can give you that crazy bokeh that you either love or hate.  There's no "woo, woo magic" in the Leica optic compared to the others.  The Leica lens can be flarey w/o a hood (even with a hood!). The Voigts have normal filter threads and 0.7m MFD, where with the Leica the filters attach to the hood and the lens has. MFD of 1.0m.  The Voigts come in both multi and single coated, a nice option.  They're all capable of taking great photos.  The Voigts are seamless whereas you have to learn how to use the pre-aspherical Summilux.  Needless to say the Voigtlander are better values for the money, but Leica stuff tends to appreciate better over time.  Examples of all three lenses on my Flickr page.

Edited May 1, 2023 by TheBestSLIsALeicaflex

[Knipsknecht]

I had the opportunity to test both lenses before buying and in the end I opted for the Voigtlander. As others have already mentioned both lenses are what we call today “character lenses”, and I wouldn’t use either of them if it comes to documentary work, unless you want to give your photos some kind of deliberately chosen “old fashioned” look. 
Given this the Voigtlander is available in two versions, a single-coated version and a multi-coated version of which the later has a much more modern rendering. Personally I use the single-coated version and I like it a lot because it gives my street photography that tiny bit more atmosphere that modern aspherical lenses lack. But this is highly subjective!

When I tested the pre-aspherical Lux it gave me just too much glow, flare and coma to be used as an every day lens. The Voigtlander on the other hand has just enough of these imperfections to suit my individual needs.

And again, as others have already mentioned, in your case I would recommend either a new aspherical Summicron, which is still small and light but very modern and neutral concerning rendering, or the afore mentioned lenses from Voigtlander. If size and weight don’t matter too much, the big but brilliant Zeiss f1.4 Distagon would be another reasonable option (not to forget the big but great 35mm Voigtlander APO Lanthar f2.0). And of course - if money is no objection - just go for the newest Summilux.

[oldwino]

I didn’t see it mentioned yet, but as far as I can remember, the version 2 Nokton corrects a lot of the focus shift inherent in the design of this lens.

[28framelines]

Another thing to consider: it seems like the Voigtlander, from what I’ve read, has considerably more distortion than the Summilux (virtually 0).

Edited May 1, 2023 by 28framelines
Clarity

[mediumformula]

I've been reading that stopped down to f2 the Summilux begins to get very shop across the field whereas the Nokton still is soft at the edges until you get to around f11.  

[lct]

55 minutes ago, mediumformula said:

I've been reading that stopped down to f2 the Summilux begins to get very shop across the field [...].  

As far as my 1989 copy is concerned, i would not expect significant sharpness at edges and corners below f/4.

Edited May 1, 2023 by lct

[lct]

3 hours ago, 28framelines said:

Another thing to consider: it seems like the Voigtlander, from what I’ve read, has considerably more distortion than the Summilux (virtually 0).

The Summilux v2 is clearly ahead there but the (barrel) distortion of the Nokton SC v2 is easy to adjust in PP.

[mediumformula]

I picked up the multi-coated Nokton today from B&H.  I had some trade in credit.  The lens construction feels very solid and it is nice and compact.  I like the fact that it takes normal threaded filters, has .7m minimum focus, and was relatively inexpensive.   After looking into the version II 35mm Summilux it does seem like a really fun lens and I will keep my eye out for one at a decent price.  This is my first 35mm M lens.  Up until now all I have is 50s.  

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

Not what you asked, but sounds like a Q could fit your needs very well. Close focus option to get in much closer than any M lens, and a good second camera in case you’re not carrying a backup. Q2 also gives you a certain degree of weather sealing. 

[mediumformula]

7 hours ago, TheGodParticle/Hari said:

Not what you asked, but sounds like a Q could fit your needs very well. Close focus option to get in much closer than any M lens, and a good second camera in case you’re not carrying a backup. Q2 also gives you a certain degree of weather sealing. 

I'm pretty committed to investing in M mount. Not a fan of electronic viewfinders or wide angle.  But I can see how for some people the Q would be ideal.

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[rustyrus]

On 4/30/2023 at 2:41 PM, mediumformula said:

I'm looking for a compact, light weight but fast 35mm lens for film and monochrome digital.  I'm looking at both the pre-aspherical Summilux (version 2) and the Voigtlander 1.4 Nokton II.  Both of these lenses are small and compact and apparently produce good results when stopped down and have some character when wide open.    Is the Nokton essentially a modern re-issue of the classic Summilux 35 pre-aspherical?   Does anyone have experience with both.  Used versions of the Summilux are approaching $3000.  Does the Nokton have 1/3 aperture stops or 1/2?  Any insight on these two lenses would be helpful.  I don't mind spending the extra money if the Summilux is notably better than the Voigtlander.   I'm mainly interested in the lens for shooting documentary and ethnographic/anthropological fieldwork.  So I don't want something too dreamy, as accurate reproduction of the subjects and their environment are important.  I currently use my 50 Summilux Asph for this work but would like a wider (and something smaller and lighter weight) lens option as well.  Thank you. 

 

If you can strech it, grab the new 35 Summilux. It is considerable smaller than the 35 with the metal hood. Its one of the reasons I went to it. 

 

I know the budget is a stretch but if you can do it, its great and small. 

 

[lct]

1 hour ago, rustyrus said:

If you can strech it, grab the new 35 Summilux. It is considerable smaller than the 35 with the metal hood [...]

Would you have a picture by chance? Here 35/1.4 v2 and 35/1.4 FLE v1 which looks somewhat bulky by comparison.

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