Get one more Leica body or Hasselblad X2D

[Yihong]

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Dear Leica enthusiasts:

After my recent trip to Amsterdam, I'm considering getting one more Leica body or Hasselblad either for travel or studio shooting purposes. 

• For travel: I really liked my M11 with Nocti 50mm to go around the city and museums. However,  I changed between 50mm to 21mm(I don't enjoy 35mm smh) back and forth for some landscape/architecture/narrow street shooting, and the sensor becomes dusty very quickly. Add another M body seems to make my life easier, or it makes non-sense to have two M bodies on the neck? M system is designed to be compact meanwhile with high image quality, I've never seen anyone with two Leica M on street, maybe I'm too narrow 🥲?
• For portrait: I occasionally shoot portraits in the studio. Generally, I'm only shooting with Nocti 0.95 or 1.25 on M11, the shallow DOF and manual focus make it a challenge to focus on the model's eyes hence I missed many good shots.  I'm wondering if SL2 or Hasselblad X2D with Nocti lens (either 50 or 75) will give much better results? 

If I had two camera bodies, I would prefer 21mm lux + 50mm Nocti or 50mm Nocti+ 90mm Elmar combo for universal purposes. Just curious about your guy's suggestions and setup, much appreciate it if you can share them here.

 

Kind Regards

Yihong

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Yihong

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[Knipsknecht]

Well we all have different needs and preferences. Given this, personally I would not travel with more than one body unless it’s a paid job. Even a Leica M body, although being small it’s not exactly lightweight. And while this is not a problem for a one or two hour photo walk, it gets a little nasty after five or six hours of walking unknown streets while traveling. Additionally I never had problems with dust on the sensor, but maybe I am just a little bit more tolerant😅.

So, my recommendation would be to look for a focal length that fits most situations and try to stick with it. Recently I found, that I like 24mm a lot for streetphotography, because I like to show a little bit more “context” in my photos as well as I like the ability to crop on photos taken with a wide but not too wide lens. But - of course - your needs and preferences may vary.

Concerning studio shots, the SL2 might be better suited for getting the correct focus with a Noctilux. The Hasselblad X2D is a wonderful camera, but it has no shutter in the body. It’s in the Hasselblad lenses. So using a X2D with Leica glas is either impossible or at least cumbersome because you would need an adapter with built in shutter and I don’t know if something like this exists. Personally I wouldn’t use a X2D with anything else than Hasselblad lenses.

[dpitt]

9 hours ago, Yihong said:

...Add another M body seems to make my life easier, or it makes non-sense to have two M bodies on the neck? M system is designed to be compact meanwhile with high image quality, I've never seen anyone with two Leica M on street, maybe I'm too narrow 🥲?

...

 

We clearly have not met yet 😀

I really like taking out two M's. It is still more compact than one DSLR or mirrorless with zoom lens and you have no need for changing lenses in the field. I have no budget for 2 M11s, but I take my M8 and M9. The M8 has a 50mm or 90mm, the M9 40mm or wider. Since the M8 is a crop of the M9 it makes no sense doing it the other way around. In the near future I would like to upgrade to M240 and M9 or M10 and M9 combo. Maybe it is an option for you to have a M11 and M11 Mono,  M10 Mono or M10 R. This would add some variance in strong points to the equation and economize the budget a bit.

I prefer to use very compact lenses, style 28mm Elmarit or Summicron 40 C. The Macro Elmar M 90 is my preferred tele for the M. If need be a body with wide 40mm or less can be put in a coat pocket. The other around my neck.

I looked at the X2D and was tempted (a used X1D was in my budget now). In the end I bought a used SL. The SL is used differently, essentially for anything my M's won't do, like macro, long tele and maybe extreme low light. If I had a M11, the low light use case would not be applicable for the SL. Also the SL is used where I can bring my car. I do not like to carry it for a longer distance like I often do with my M's.

The X2D could be a fine option, but I have so many M and R lenses, that investing in the SL made more sense to me.

Edited April 22, 2023 by dpitt

[lifeandmylens]

The X2D with adapted lenses is terrible.  It's e-shutter only and very slow, with lots of vignetting. It would not be my pick for using it with a Leica lens.  

[chasdfg]

I'd get another Leica body. Maybe a monochrom + EVF or SL2. 

I have always been tempted by the mini-medium format cameras, especially when it comes to adapting fast full-frame glass. But as others have mentioned, particularly with the Hasselblads, it's electronic shutter only. Not all M or R/DSLR glass covers the entire image circle, some work fine up-close but not at infinity, some have hard vignetting and/or require some crop to another aspect ratio. To me, it's a bit too much of a hassle (blad and predictable pun intended). Sometimes, to further dissuade myself from going down the mini-medium format + Leica M/DSLR route, I tell myself that I'm sure there are plenty of very good micro4/3, 4/3, Nikon DX, EOS M glass - but I've never contemplated adapting those to full-frame (flange distance issues aside). So why adapt full frame glass to a larger format? 

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Yihong said:

Dear Leica enthusiasts:

After my recent trip to Amsterdam, I'm considering getting one more Leica body or Hasselblad either for travel or studio shooting purposes. 

• For travel: I really liked my M11 with Nocti 50mm to go around the city and museums. However,  I changed between 50mm to 21mm(I don't enjoy 35mm smh) back and forth for some landscape/architecture/narrow street shooting, and the sensor becomes dusty very quickly. Add another M body seems to make my life easier, or it makes non-sense to have two M bodies on the neck? M system is designed to be compact meanwhile with high image quality, I've never seen anyone with two Leica M on street, maybe I'm too narrow 🥲?
• For portrait: I occasionally shoot portraits in the studio. Generally, I'm only shooting with Nocti 0.95 or 1.25 on M11, the shallow DOF and manual focus make it a challenge to focus on the model's eyes hence I missed many good shots.  I'm wondering if SL2 or Hasselblad X2D with Nocti lens (either 50 or 75) will give much better results? 

If I had two camera bodies, I would prefer 21mm lux + 50mm Nocti or 50mm Nocti+ 90mm Elmar combo for universal purposes. Just curious about your guy's suggestions and setup, much appreciate it if you can share them here.

 

Kind Regards

Yihong

 

 

 

The best solution to achieve predictable focus accuracy with the Noctilux (wide open) that I have found is the SL2(-S). The SL2 body balances well with the 50/0.95 and 75/1.25.
You should try this combination in a store if you have a chance (might have to bring your own Noctiluxes ...).

[FlashGordonPhotography]

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As someone who owns the x2D as well as M11 &M11M, I’d also get an SL2 body if it’s the Noctilux you want to use, or any manual focus lens for that matter. If you’re interested in adding XCD lenses than absolutely get the X2D. It’s incredible. Or get another M11 or M11M and the EVF for Noctilux use. I think the IBIS is worth the extra weight of the SL2.

I leave tomorrow on a trip and I’ll have all three bodies (x2D, M11, M11M). But likely the X2D will be the main and I’ll have the M11M over one shoulder with a 28mm strapped to it. The M11 is probably the world’s most expensive backup for this trip.

Gordon

[hdmesa]

Why not just get a filtered bulb blower and do all your lens changes indoors in a place without much air circulation? Each time you change the lens:

• Blow off the base cap of the lens to mount
• Blow off the camera and lens around the mount before removing the lens to change
• Keep the lens mount opening facing downward during the entire lens change
• Optional: give the sensor a few strong puffs from the blower between the changes (while mount opening is still facing downward)

If you can't get indoors, you're stuck with no other option but a second camera/lens combo. Changing a lens outside almost always will get dust on the sensor.

If it were me, I might prefer using a Q camera as my second body for the wide shots since the FOV of the Q lens is closer to 25mm than the stated 28mm.

 

[Yihong]

On 4/22/2023 at 11:13 AM, Knipsknecht said:

And while this is not a problem for a one or two hour photo walk, it gets a little nasty after five or six hours of walking unknown streets while traveling.

Yeah, I need to get a personal trainer first for my neck and back in order to achieve that 🙂

On 4/22/2023 at 11:13 AM, Knipsknecht said:

So, my recommendation would be to look for a focal length that fits most situations and try to stick with it.

I agree, I usually do street photography with only one lens, Nocti 50mm 90% of the time. However, this is not ideal for tourism purposes because once you missed it you won't be back in a short period of time. Somehow I just want to cover as much as possible with a complimentary perspective, maybe it's my OCD.

 

On 4/22/2023 at 11:13 AM, Knipsknecht said:

Personally I wouldn’t use a X2D with anything else than Hasselblad lenses.

Yeah, I would like to take advantage of the Nocti lenses I have, SL system makes more sense.

[Yihong]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:16 PM, dpitt said:

We clearly have not met yet 😀

I really like taking out two M's. It is still more compact than one DSLR or mirrorless with zoom lens and you have no need for changing lenses in the field.

I met a guy using Leica-MP with a flashlight but not two bodies. Did you get paid? Two M's on the neck give you more credit 🤣

 

On 4/22/2023 at 12:16 PM, dpitt said:

Maybe it is an option for you to have a M11 and M11 Mono,  M10 Mono or M10 R.

I'm now thinking about getting an M11M, tempted by Youtube reviewers but I will try it in-store. M11M is also fabulous for Nocti 0.95.

On 4/22/2023 at 12:16 PM, dpitt said:

The Macro Elmar M 90 is my preferred tele for the M.

Elmar 90 is a sharp and compact lens, I usually just drop it in my pocket.

 

On 4/22/2023 at 12:16 PM, dpitt said:

The X2D could be a fine option, but I have so many M and R lenses, that investing in the SL made more sense to me.

Eventually, we will buy them all 🤣 Thanks for sharing!

[Yihong]

On 4/22/2023 at 1:26 PM, lifeandmylens said:

The X2D with adapted lenses is terrible.  It's e-shutter only and very slow, with lots of vignetting. It would not be my pick for using it with a Leica lens.  

Thanks for sharing, just found this thread: 

Looks great,  better than initially thought! 

[DenverSteve]

I sold off my Hassy film, and digital, cameras a couple of years ago because there just no use anymore for me to have them.  Image sensors in full-frame 35mm cameras now having 60+ MP makes the medium format obsolete for me.  Additionally, I like carrying bodies with the same batteries and accessories.  I would, and do, carry 2-3 Leica bodies when I'm shooting.  At minimum 2 with one having a 50 and another a 35 or 75 depending on what/where I'm shooting.  If working I have 3 bodies, 4-6 lenses all in one bag.  It really depends on what and where.  If I know exactly where I'll be and what I'm shooting, I will have one camera with 2-3 lenses.   For me, backing up an M11 with a medium-format is pointless, and overkill. 

[Yihong]

On 4/22/2023 at 3:15 PM, chasdfg said:

To me, it's a bit too much of a hassle (blad and predictable pun intended)

I agree, now there's a monkey in my mind talking to me 24/7. 😅 

[Yihong]

On 4/22/2023 at 4:49 PM, mzbe said:

You should try this combination in a store if you have a chance (might have to bring your own Noctiluxes ...).

Thanks, I should be able to rent one if I attend some Leica events, so I can use it for some time to have a test. The SL body is almost 900g, I don't think I will take it out together with my M but good for portrait shooting.

[Yihong]

On 4/23/2023 at 12:58 AM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

As someone who owns the x2D as well as M11 &M11M, I’d also get an SL2 body if it’s the Noctilux you want to use, or any manual focus lens for that matter.

Yeah, I'm still in bokeh fever from the Noctilux lenses. 75mm is much easier to nail the focus in close-up shooting when compared to 50mm on M11, even without EVF or magnification(I don't usually use it, switching around makes me dizzy). 

On 4/23/2023 at 12:58 AM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I leave tomorrow on a trip and I’ll have all three bodies (x2D, M11, M11M). But likely the X2D will be the main and I’ll have the M11M over one shoulder with a 28mm strapped to it.

I never tried 28mm before, I have 35 lux but don't like it too much, 21mm is super wide and fits me quite well. May I please ask how you find 28mm different from 35mm? 

[Yihong]

On 4/23/2023 at 1:13 AM, hdmesa said:

If you can't get indoors, you're stuck with no other option but a second camera/lens combo. Changing a lens outside almost always will get dust on the sensor.

Exactly, that's why the title of this thread is to choose which camera body 🙂

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, Yihong said:

Exactly, that's why the title of this thread is to choose which camera body 🙂

If you don't want to use a Q as I recommended –> Get the GFX 100S for the ease of adapting lenses (not limited to electronic shutter like the X2D) and shooting in various aspect ratios or full 35mm crop. The aspect ratios are extremely important because they can mask off the areas of the frame you know will be unusable with various M lenses.

Edited April 25, 2023 by hdmesa

[dpitt]

3 hours ago, DenverSteve said:

I sold off my Hassy film, and digital, cameras a couple of years ago because there just no use anymore for me to have them.  Image sensors in full-frame 35mm cameras now having 60+ MP makes the medium format obsolete for me.  Additionally, I like carrying bodies with the same batteries and accessories.  I would, and do, carry 2-3 Leica bodies when I'm shooting.  At minimum 2 with one having a 50 and another a 35 or 75 depending on what/where I'm shooting.  If working I have 3 bodies, 4-6 lenses all in one bag.  It really depends on what and where.  If I know exactly where I'll be and what I'm shooting, I will have one camera with 2-3 lenses.   For me, backing up an M11 with a medium-format is pointless, and overkill. 

That reminds me. I often play a guessing game... "How much gear do I have in the bag ?" People have to guess how much bodies and lenses are in my compact Lowepro bag. It is generally used for one DSLR with lens 🙂

They are always amazed when I tell them there are 2 bodies and 3 lenses or sometimes even 4!

3 hours ago, Yihong said:

Thanks, I should be able to rent one if I attend some Leica events, so I can use it for some time to have a test. The SL body is almost 900g, I don't think I will take it out together with my M but good for portrait shooting.

I do have a SL, but it is used in very different way. The SL and my R lenses hardly ever get carried more than 100m from the car trunk. I used it when I have a planned trip to a subject with a parking spot nearby. And most of the time it is used at home or in my garden for some macro.

The Ms can (and will) be carried for several km. And are taken on city walks and hikes where I do not plan what exactly will come on my path. In most cases we park the car (or are on a trip with public transport) and choose what to take in the morning without opportunity to switch gear until evening. On hollidays, I take a big bag with several bodies and lots of lens options. Each day I choose what to take. Often my M8 and M9 with 2 lenses mounted and one or 2 spares. The lenses are never switched outside. Been there done that ...caused lots of work in PS because the wind blew a lot of dust on my sensor, and I shot for a week without noticing. I always wait for when we take a coffee break or something.

On 4/23/2023 at 2:13 AM, hdmesa said:

Why not just get a filtered bulb blower and do all your lens changes indoors in a place without much air circulation? Each time you change the lens:

• Blow off the base cap of the lens to mount
• Blow off the camera and lens around the mount before removing the lens to change
• Keep the lens mount opening facing downward during the entire lens change
• Optional: give the sensor a few strong puffs from the blower between the changes (while mount opening is still facing downward)

If you can't get indoors, you're stuck with no other option but a second camera/lens combo. Changing a lens outside almost always will get dust on the sensor.

If it were me, I might prefer using a Q camera as my second body for the wide shots since the FOV of the Q lens is closer to 25mm than the stated 28mm.

 

Main thing is to get inside and do not leave the camera open for too long. Never hold it pointing upwards when open. And my lenses always have clean caps on, only to be removed just before changing lenses. The Q makes sense, but it takes up more room than an extra M body, and often 28mm is too wide or not wide enough for my wide option. I like a 40mm and 90/135 combo too. Of course with a Q2 it can act as 40mm with cropping.

Edited April 25, 2023 by dpitt

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[hdmesa]

31 minutes ago, dpitt said:

...The Q makes sense, but it takes up more room than an extra M body, and often 28mm is too wide or not wide enough for my wide option...

If the Q would be too large for what you have in mind, then a second M body may make more sense than an X2D plus M adapter. You could have fun with the choice of the second body and add something unique like an M9 or a film M.

I still think given the fact that you have an M11 and know how good the IQ can be with your M lenses, you may be disappointed with their performance on the X2D sensor – the 21mm Lux would be borderline useless unless used at close distance wide open. You would be far better off with the X2D plus XCD 30mm lens (21mm equivalent FOV) and leave your Leica 21mm behind.

[chris7273]

 

 

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