Eye AF Q2 in FW5.0.... is it limited or am I just Too New?

[Simone_DF]

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3 hours ago, Casey Jefferson said:

Absurd FUD? I'm proud to be one. 😏

@BobsFirstLeica I enjoyed the Q2 for what it is, and it does things I really love, while also irked me for certain things too, lacking eye af isn't one of it. It's not a perfect camera, but none of the camera is.

Leica didn't not falsely advertise it. Does it detect eyes? Yes it does. Does it perform reliably and highly dependable? That's not what Leica claimed. It's been around for 4 years now and finally everyone is trying to attack it when Leica spent the effort to squeeze out the last drop of juice from the camera.

Now let me go double check the meaning of "absurd"...

You can't claim something works and then it doesn't. It doesn't work like that. Go have a look at Tesla and their false advertising about autonomous drive. It works, but "it doesn't perform reliably and highly dependably". Result? Class action. Sure, it's an extreme example as Tesla staged a false video demonstration, and that one is a car and this is a camera and nobody really cares.

And no one is trying to attack Leica. I plaud them for releasing a firmware at the end of the camera lifecycle trying to improve a broken tech, but to claim eye-af is unreliable on other camera brands and users are unhappy is quite the overstatement. Eye-af is incredibly reliable on Sony and Canon cameras. 100% perfect? No. No AF system is and never will be. Highly reliable? Yes, definitely. 

Also, FUD is not a personal offence, but applies to comment / statements. Apologies if you took it personally but it was not direct to you as a person. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty,_and_doubt

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[Casey Jefferson]

21 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

You can't claim something works and then it doesn't. It doesn't work like that. Go have a look at Tesla and their false advertising about autonomous drive. It works, but "it doesn't perform reliably and highly dependably". Result? Class action. Sure, it's an extreme example as Tesla staged a false video demonstration, and that one is a car and this is a camera and nobody really cares.

And no one is trying to attack Leica. I plaud them for releasing a firmware at the end of the camera lifecycle trying to improve a broken tech, but to claim eye-af is unreliable on other camera brands and users are unhappy is quite the overstatement. Eye-af is incredibly reliable on Sony and Canon cameras. 100% perfect? No. No AF system is and never will be. Highly reliable? Yes, definitely. 

Also, FUD is not a personal offence, but applies to comment / statements. Apologies if you took it personally but it was not direct to you as a person. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty,_and_doubt

Thanks for clarifying, I didn't take it personally but thought it was pretty vague 😂 I've been around internet long enough to learn to live in real world and never get myself deep into the world wide web.

Anyway for the sake of argument, initial post from OP stated that it worked when the subject is close like 5 or 6 feet (and also remarked that it worked as advertised), so I don't see a point to prove it otherwise.

In comparison I tested the X2D recently for example, the AF accuracy left a pretty bad impression on me, I set the focus point to smallest and point to a pretty much black/white contrast subject and guess what, the focal plane didn't fall within where I wanted/expected it to be, partly because of the ultra shallow depth of field I suspect but I definitely won't depend on it if I use it as a professional tool. But that doesn't mean they falsely advertise the product as being able to autofocus (which again in my own way of using, the af was pretty much "inaccurate").

I feel that it's very nice of Leica still spending effort to improve their product after years in the market, especially adding features apart from just fixing bugs. But on case by case basis, I feel that the Q2 doesn't really need one to begin with, it's incredibly easy to nail focus with the traditional way of shooting, hence my initial respond.

[LocalHero1953]

I have just compared the Q2 and v5.0 with the SL2-S and the 24-90 SL zoom, before a crowded theatre stage of about 5m depth. The Q2 could not pick one person out from the crowd: not body, face or eye. It made no difference when I used the crop function to limit the scope of the AF search. This is in line with my expectations from v4.0.

The SL2-S at 24mm filled the screen with body boxes, face boxes and some eye boxes - in theory allowing me to choose which one I wanted to focus on - in reality the people were moving around and turning too quickly. The SL2-S also picked out a head even though it was side on and masked entirely by long curly hair - no visible face at all. NB and everyone says a Sony or Canon is much better than the SL2-S at face recognition and tracking (I haven't tried one, but I have no reason to doubt them).

So Leica clearly knows how to make a functioning body/face/eye AF system, but have not/cannot implement it in the Q2. My conclusion is that the difference is down to a combination of insufficient processor power, possibly combined with all those extra pixels in the Q2. (I'd be interested to hear if the SL2 face recognition/tracking performs worse than the SL2-S: same processor, more pixels).

I don't expect the Q3 to perform miracles, and it is not a camera format I would choose on its own for theatre work. But I hope it is a big step up in AF.

Edited April 21, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[Daniel C.1975]

I have not expected miracles with the same hardware behind it. 

Still, it is better than before for certain applications, but still limited. For a unexpected freebe update fine with me. 

My SL2-s is way more capable.  However,  I take it and am happier than before. Know your tool and use it accordingly  

 

[BobsFirstLeica]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I have just compared the Q2 and v5.0 with the SL2-S and the 24-90 SL zoom, before a crowded theatre stage of about 5m depth. The Q2 could not pick one person out from the crowd: not body, face or eye. It made no difference when I used the crop function to limit the scope of the AF search. This is in line with my expectations from v4.0.

The SL2-S at 24mm filled the screen with body boxes, face boxes and some eye boxes - in theory allowing me to choose which one I wanted to focus on - in reality the people were moving around and turning too quickly. The SL2-S also picked out a head even though it was side on and masked entirely by long curly hair - no visible face at all. NB and everyone says a Sony or Canon is much better than the SL2-S at face recognition and tracking (I haven't tried one, but I have no reason to doubt them).

So Leica clearly knows how to make a functioning body/face/eye AF system, but have not/cannot implement it in the Q2. My conclusion is that the difference is down to a combination of insufficient processor power, possibly combined with all those extra pixels in the Q2. (I'd be interested to hear if the SL2 face recognition/tracking performs worse than the SL2-S: same processor, more pixels).

I don't expect the Q3 to perform miracles, and it is not a camera format I would choose on its own for theatre work. But I hope it is a big step up in AF.

Thanks for your post.  At least I know I was not doing anything wrong, especially since the Q2 is my first Leica.

Bob

[Simone_DF]

22 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I have just compared the Q2 and v5.0 with the SL2-S and the 24-90 SL zoom, before a crowded theatre stage of about 5m depth. The Q2 could not pick one person out from the crowd: not body, face or eye. It made no difference when I used the crop function to limit the scope of the AF search. This is in line with my expectations from v4.0.

The SL2-S at 24mm filled the screen with body boxes, face boxes and some eye boxes - in theory allowing me to choose which one I wanted to focus on - in reality the people were moving around and turning too quickly. The SL2-S also picked out a head even though it was side on and masked entirely by long curly hair - no visible face at all. NB and everyone says a Sony or Canon is much better than the SL2-S at face recognition and tracking (I haven't tried one, but I have no reason to doubt them).

So Leica clearly knows how to make a functioning body/face/eye AF system, but have not/cannot implement it in the Q2. My conclusion is that the difference is down to a combination of insufficient processor power, possibly combined with all those extra pixels in the Q2. (I'd be interested to hear if the SL2 face recognition/tracking performs worse than the SL2-S: same processor, more pixels).

I don't expect the Q3 to perform miracles, and it is not a camera format I would choose on its own for theatre work. But I hope it is a big step up in AF.

For about 2 weeks I had the SL2-S and the SL2 (and the S5 too!) at the same time. I had the impression that the SL2-S was slightly faster / more reactive. But this was a totally unscientific test based on my own impressions, so take it with a grain of salt. The SL2-S is the camera I kept in the end though.

Sony and Canon are much better at face recognition and tracking because of PDAF. I haven't tried the S5II yet, but I'm considering getting one. From what I've seen in videos, it looks on par with the other brands, or at least very close to.

[rtai]

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On 4/20/2023 at 1:28 PM, Farrell Gallery said:

It is….but it’s not a Sony. Technology vs. character 

Post a photo from your Q2 showing that character.

[rtai]

On 4/20/2023 at 9:36 PM, BobsFirstLeica said:

I didn't realize my question would get an emotional response by a few members.  I knew what the Q2 could do and not do before my recent purchase.  What I didn't know is Leica was about to release FW 5.0.  My initial question was one of curiosity.  As I stated initially, focus and recompose is fine with me.....especially with that beautiful 28mm/1.7 lens in front of the sensor.

Bob

I agree with that. I have very low expectations when comes to Leica and technology but will not help the Red Dot make excuses. I have a choice to buy or not to buy. It’s all on me if I am not happy.