M11 Mono YouTubers VS Magnum Photographers

[LeicaTobin]

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Watching coverage on You Tube regarding the new M11 Monochrom I started to realize that everyone is talking specs and basically the same things time and time again.

 

No one is actually saying anything with the images. I remember in 2012 when Magnum Photographer Jacob Aue Sobol was the face of the campaign for the first Monochrom with his Arrivals and Departures project. His images had something to say and the vehicle for that message was how he used the mono and his strong connections to the subjects he met along his amazing train journey. Leica did a wonderful job at making a series of small artistic films that made you want to see the world in black and white.

 

Where are we headed? Why are companies not putting new cameras in the hands of people who are actually using them in the field instead of people who take photos around their houses because they have the camera sent to them for 3 days.

 

Trust an artist to make me weep and yearn for these new tools because the images are so good instead of talking heads doing dramatic pauses. Say something with the images and I’m guessing people will fork over their money faster.

 

Tobin

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[frame-it]

good variety of beautiful images here > https://www.slack.co.uk/leica-m11-monochrom.html

[vinicio]

I don’t think the issue is directly connected to Leica but it’s mainly from people that want to be present on the web and use all the tool to post “copy and paste” info

[sometimesmaybe]

28 minutes ago, LeicaTobin said:

Trust an artist to make me weep and yearn for these new tools because the images are so good instead of talking heads doing dramatic pauses.

pure speculation on my part... but my hypothesis is that for a true 'artist', the camera/lens is prob just a tool. in the same sense that brush/paint would be for an old master. leica wants it to be about the brush/paint (since they make bloody stuff), while the 'artist' is prob going to focus on something else like the subject or something more metaphysical.

dont get me wrong, some times advancements in brush/paint tech can offer an 'artist' something new to explore, but this usually doesn't happen on a 3 to 5 year product cycle  

personally im more about the brush/paint, i dont have the vision for the rest. i assume the youtubers are closer to people like me 😅

[otto.f]

I could not finish the series of 60 photo’s on dpreview because they were so utterly dull. So it’s not only the amateur vloggers and reviewers but it happens on this site too, a site which is perhaps not famous for their outstanding samples with new camera’s, but this series is rather an example of how depressing B&W can be than something else. 

[Printmaker]

Basically free advertising for Leica. Hand out a dozen cameras and let the talking heads do their thing. You get the cameras back and they go into the demo fleet. 
How many did you watch?

[otto.f]

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12 minutes ago, sometimesmaybe said:

tech can offer an 'artist' something new to explore, but this usually doesn't happen on a 3 to 5 year product cycle  

In the Netherlands there’s a photojournalist who won severeal Dutch rewards for his work, mainly in war situations. He stil works with an M4. 

[Simone_DF]

3 hours ago, LeicaTobin said:

Where are we headed? Why are companies not putting new cameras in the hands of people who are actually using them in the field instead of people who take photos around their houses because they have the camera sent to them for 3 days.

Because sending a camera to a random dude that will do free advertising for you is cheaper.

[colint544]

Alan Schaller says he has an upcoming film about the M11 Monochrom - I'm sure that will be good

 

[Lelmer]

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Lelmer

[Stuart Richardson]

I think a lot of it is also because it speaks to the demographic they are trying to sell to. I would submit that most people who buy a Leica M11 Monochrom don't know who Jacob Aue Sobol is, or if they do, they don't really "get it".  But they probably know who Hugh Brownstone or the mathphotographer guy is. Look at the kind of photography that is popular on instagram or in Leica workshops. It is not Magnum work. Part of this is that most artists and professional photographers are in no way able to afford a 9000+ dollar camera with lenses in the same price range. And in journalism? The cost of the camera and two lenses is probably approaching the full year of salary. The people who can afford this tend to be business people and the independently wealthy. Some of them are also excellent photographers, but probably not as neck deep in the world of contemporary photography. The reality is, however, that a lot of these people buy an M11M and use it to photograph their home life or travels, and perhaps are not really breaking any aesthetic records doing so. The only skilled contemporary photographer I know who used a monochrom camera happened to also come from a wealthy family.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[jaapv]

Interesting you should say this; I spent an hour talking to one of my patients yesterday. He spent his working life as a Shell employee building up his studio and  customer circle for events and corporate work on the side. Now he is retiring and plans to do this full-time. But he told me that is income may well just cover his costs. He is, BTW, one of the best street photographers I know, but could never afford a Leica M.

[pgk]

4 hours ago, LeicaTobin said:

Watching coverage on You Tube regarding the new M11 Monochrom I started to realize that everyone is talking specs and basically the same things time and time again.

I'm still using my M9s. I sometimes think that it would be fun to 'upgrade' but as I'm a low ISO shooter and have no more space for large prints I talk myself out of it quickly enough. The problem is that 'advances' in cameras are mostly nuance and this nuanceis of genuine use to a small % of camera users. So somehow manufacturers have to sell new products and the strategies employed need to appeal. I assume that they have done their homework and that their marketing works because they need to stay in business. Whether this marketing has anything valid to do with 'better' imagery is a completely different question of course .....

[LocalHero1953]

It's good marketing for Leica - I am sure they are happy with it. If 90% of the potential buyers (my unreliable guess) only consider specs, what not to like? 

I might reply: you don't have to watch those videos - watch only those from good photographers. But that is the problem with video reviews: you have to watch them to decide if you agree with their approach. I don't watch video reviews; I prefer to read a text review with stills, and jump straight to the key findings. I waste far less time.

[Stuart Richardson]

I think another side of it is that many higher end artists are probably not as interested in being associated with a particular brand. During my MFA we met with several Magnum people at their studios, and at the time Fuji had sent them all GFX's. Some liked them, some didn't, but I don't recall any of them being in a big campaign for Fuji. Certainly in their work out in the world they don't bring up the cameras they are using very often, unless there is the characteristic that they want to convey (like it being large format film or something). But I have never heard a gallerist say "well, so and so uses a Leica monochrom". I am sure it happens, but not as often as some might like to think.

[insomnia]

Well the luxury brand needs to continue, especially when the old wealthy guys who have a historical connection to the brand/the concept slowly shuffle out of the rotation.

[wattsy]

40 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

But I have never heard a gallerist say "well, so and so uses a Leica monochrom". I am sure it happens, but not as often as some might like to think.

Things might have changed recently (I'm no longer so interested in the "gallery" or "art book" world) but, yes, I've rarely seen work by a serious artist be accompanied with reference to a camera brand or anything like that. Seeing someone described in gear terms (as a "Leica photographer" or a "Phase One photographer", etc.) or not is usually a good way of differentiating between those who are creating serious work and those who are largely just using or promoting gear. There are exceptions like the established artists who are also Hasselblad "ambassadors", etc. but I think that is usually restricted to the brand marketing. Ralph Gibson is also someone never shy to shill for Leica and he is indisputably a serious artist but generally I find that kind of thing very off-putting.

[Mike Rawcs]

6 hours ago, colint544 said:

Alan Schaller says he has an upcoming film about the M11 Monochrom - I'm sure that will be good

 

They should loan you the Camera, Colin.

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[Marc B-C]

The marketing for a new cameras is all about the spec. That will appeal to both new buyers and existing xxxx model owners who believe they need the latest to be a good photographer.

Camera makers do not want us to think we can take a good photograph with anything but the latest technology. The number of people who think their current cameras are suddenly rendered useless by the release of some new kit is somewhat saddening.

[Scott_Allen]

Interesting observation.  As others have said, it’s a marketing decision.  No youtuber who is after clicks and subscribes is going to turn down the chance to “review” the M11M.  As for stunning shots from magnum photographers, the reality is they can make stunning shots with any camera or any Leica monochrome camera.   We probably have been in a cycle of marginal gains in camera tech for some time and these gains are harder and harder to really identify in photos, especially on the web.