davidmknoble Posted March 30, 2023 Share #1 Posted March 30, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) I just received my Leica 1.4x extender for the Leica 100-400 zoom lens. First, I was impressed that the items have been in stock this fast. There is an advantage to higher volume manufacturing, if the tolerances and design are strong enough to warrant the Leica logo. I have the Leica R APO 1.4x and APO 2.0x extenders, the 1.4x extenders are very similar in mount. The lens side of the extender protrudes into the base of the lens, which is why it will not work with the other SL lenses that have glass all the way to the lens mount. Still, I felt like I had to slowly mount the lens to the adapter so that I would not scratch the glass. The Leica R lenses have a wider throat at the lens mount and it feels like it is a closer fit with the SL lenses. Remembering that the f/stops increase with an extender, the SL now reads effectively f/7 to f/9 wide open. These are very high f/stops even for a digital system. So, because the focusing is done on the sensor, there is much less light reaching the sensor. Because of this, interior low light focusing was extremely difficult at the 400mm range (or at 1.4x, 560mm). As a result the SL2-S (with much better low light performance than the SL2) was constantly hunting back in forth in low light. The lower range of the zoom seemed to focus well enough and I did not noticing the focus hunting. However, if I were to use the low range, I would not need the 1.4x conversion. My conclusion is that low light is not a good application for this pair, but that was to be expected. There is no reason to post images from this experiment. I will say that the low end of the zoom with the 1.4x extender seems to have strong details but this is the best range of this zoom lens. I have no doubt that the pair will focus well in outdoor and strong lighting, but have yet to try it early in the morning and late in the daylight. It is also very clear that with the high f/stops coupled to the higher focal lengths that the IBIS and OS can only go so far. We will have to up our technique to get the most out of the highest range of this lens with the coupled 1.4x. This will likely involve a physical stabilization to lessen the need for software stabilization. This pair keeps the volume down for an extended range of lenses for the SL system. However, the application is important as the APO 90-280 still has the edge with the APO designation and the brighter f/stops from 2.8 to 4.0. There is no miracle here with increasing the long end to 400mm because of the decreased light available. Choosing a lens requires choosing an application and then living with the need for different techniques to achieve the long end of the zoom ranges. Just my thoughts! 7 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 Hi davidmknoble, Take a look here First Take on the Leica 1.4x Extender for the Leica 100-400 zoom. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
kobra Posted March 30, 2023 Share #2 Posted March 30, 2023 2 hours ago, davidmknoble said: I just received my Leica 1.4x extender for the Leica 100-400 zoom lens. First, I was impressed that the items have been in stock this fast. There is an advantage to higher volume manufacturing, if the tolerances and design are strong enough to warrant the Leica logo. I have the Leica R APO 1.4x and APO 2.0x extenders, the 1.4x extenders are very similar in mount. The lens side of the extender protrudes into the base of the lens, which is why it will not work with the other SL lenses that have glass all the way to the lens mount. Still, I felt like I had to slowly mount the lens to the adapter so that I would not scratch the glass. The Leica R lenses have a wider throat at the lens mount and it feels like it is a closer fit with the SL lenses. Remembering that the f/stops increase with an extender, the SL now reads effectively f/7 to f/9 wide open. These are very high f/stops even for a digital system. So, because the focusing is done on the sensor, there is much less light reaching the sensor. Because of this, interior low light focusing was extremely difficult at the 400mm range (or at 1.4x, 560mm). As a result the SL2-S (with much better low light performance than the SL2) was constantly hunting back in forth in low light. The lower range of the zoom seemed to focus well enough and I did not noticing the focus hunting. However, if I were to use the low range, I would not need the 1.4x conversion. My conclusion is that low light is not a good application for this pair, but that was to be expected. There is no reason to post images from this experiment. I will say that the low end of the zoom with the 1.4x extender seems to have strong details but this is the best range of this zoom lens. I have no doubt that the pair will focus well in outdoor and strong lighting, but have yet to try it early in the morning and late in the daylight. It is also very clear that with the high f/stops coupled to the higher focal lengths that the IBIS and OS can only go so far. We will have to up our technique to get the most out of the highest range of this lens with the coupled 1.4x. This will likely involve a physical stabilization to lessen the need for software stabilization. This pair keeps the volume down for an extended range of lenses for the SL system. However, the application is important as the APO 90-280 still has the edge with the APO designation and the brighter f/stops from 2.8 to 4.0. There is no miracle here with increasing the long end to 400mm because of the decreased light available. Choosing a lens requires choosing an application and then living with the need for different techniques to achieve the long end of the zoom ranges. Just my thoughts! Very helpful, thanks David! I think you've nailed where a big challenge for this combo might be... outdoor in early morning or evening. Considering a common use case for this lens will be wildlife and landscape photography, I can imagine many times where shooting in those lower light hours will happen. I also appreciate you sharing your experiences using this combo on the SL2-S. Knowing there are significant low light challenges in AF performance with the TC is very helpful. Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpitt Posted March 30, 2023 Share #3 Posted March 30, 2023 Twilight is about 4 stops lighter than home interior and 6 stops better than candle light. That will make a huge difference. I can not imagine sensible applications for 400mm or 560mm indoors, so for this lens only outdoors performance would matter to me. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmknoble Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share #4 Posted March 30, 2023 1 hour ago, dpitt said: Twilight is about 4 stops lighter than home interior and 6 stops better than candle light. That will make a huge difference. I can not imagine sensible applications for 400mm or 560mm indoors, so for this lens only outdoors performance would matter to me. I understand and I agree. However, the test is interesting nonetheless because the 90-280 focuses very well inside, and the 100-400 focuses fine in low light without the 1.4x. Sort of at the extremes... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellisson Posted March 30, 2023 Share #5 Posted March 30, 2023 I've been considering the 100-400 zoom and also the APO 90-280 for long lens use in landscape and water sports shooting with the SL2-S camera. Considering that I would not need the shorter range of these lenses, and that autofocus is not needed, I'm also considering one of the long R lenses with the R to L adapter (which I have). The APO-telyt R 280 F4 with an APO-R 1.4 extender is the option that interests me the most, even with lack of autofocus and the significant weight of R-L adapter, extender, lens and camera. Can anyone opine on using the APO-telyt R 280/f4 or the telyt-R 280/2.8 with the SL2 cameras? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 30, 2023 Share #6 Posted March 30, 2023 The Apo Telyt is the best lens ever built in its class. And that includes the Apo 90-280. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschuette Posted March 30, 2023 Share #7 Posted March 30, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) vor einer Stunde schrieb ellisson: I've been considering the 100-400 zoom and also the APO 90-280 for long lens use in landscape and water sports shooting with the SL2-S camera. Considering that I would not need the shorter range of these lenses, and that autofocus is not needed, I'm also considering one of the long R lenses with the R to L adapter (which I have). The APO-telyt R 280 F4 with an APO-R 1.4 extender is the option that interests me the most, even with lack of autofocus and the significant weight of R-L adapter, extender, lens and camera. Can anyone opine on using the APO-telyt R 280/f4 or the telyt-R 280/2.8 with the SL2 cameras? I own the APO Telyt R 280/4 with APO 1.4x extender for four weeks now and I am very happy with it. Focusing with the SL2-S is not difficult. IQ is fantastic. Have a look here: For the same price you also get a used Canon EF 400/4 DO II (with 1.4x TC) which has almost the same size, weight and IQ as the Telyt R. But it has AF that works on the SL(2…) with the Sigma adapter. My first choice for wildlife with the SL2-S. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpitt Posted March 30, 2023 Share #8 Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) I have no experience with the APO Teleyt R 280 F4 but I have the APO Telyt R 280 F2.8. What can I say... I wish I had a lens this good on every FL I use. It is so good and gives such a special look that I even try to force myself using it outside the normal use of such a lens. I have not had the chance to use it on my SL because the weather was really bad, but I am sure it will get used on that one too. I often try to use it handheld, and it handles much better than you would expect. The previous owner told me people often laughed at him when he used it for shooting at weddings and such...until they saw the results. He even took it with him to shoot some street... I am not that crazy, but I gave it a try as a portrait lens on my R8+DMR (see photo below) With a APO 1.4 converter it becomes a very good 400 F4 With APO 2x it is a 560 F5.6 With stacked APO 2x and 1.4 it is still a great 800 F8 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited March 30, 2023 by dpitt 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/374846-first-take-on-the-leica-14x-extender-for-the-leica-100-400-zoom/?do=findComment&comment=4740074'>More sharing options...
davidmknoble Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share #9 Posted March 31, 2023 @ellisson, I’ve used them both on the SL system. With the EVF and focus magnification it does a great job. The f/4 version is one of a handful of the best lenses Leica has ever made. Many of the “modern” R lenses are tremendous and I have over a dozen that I use regularly with the SL2-S and the R8/R9. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planetwide Posted March 31, 2023 Share #10 Posted March 31, 2023 The 280 F4 R lens shows no appreciable loss of quality with the 1.4x on a 24mp camera. A truly amazing lens. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planetwide Posted March 31, 2023 Share #11 Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited March 31, 2023 by Planetwide 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/374846-first-take-on-the-leica-14x-extender-for-the-leica-100-400-zoom/?do=findComment&comment=4740165'>More sharing options...
davidmknoble Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share #12 Posted March 31, 2023 At the end of the day, you get what you started with. The 100-400 is a very good lens. Given the APO R and S lenses I have used, along with the APO SL lenses, I don't classify the 100-400 lens in that same category. However, the long-end focal lengths are much easier to correct than wide-angle lenses. So, I don't have reservations using this lens for its intended use. However, I also don't shoot landscapes at 400mm and if I were to use a long focal length for landscapes I would use the APO 90-280 (or an apt R lens). Leica is also known for higher f/stops to preserve quality, which I assume is why this lens starts at f/5.6 and I am not expecting corner-to-corner sharpness without stopping down to f/8-f/11 but even then the depth of field is still narrow and even more so with the 1.4x. So, I come back to: heavy, but compact in size for the focal length; it already has a tripod mount making it more compact (less gear to use); same 82mm filter as the other SL zooms and most of my S lenses (still compact or at least efficient) and weather sealed (not like my R lenses). To really put this lens in perspective, the used Leica R APO 280mm f/4 lens is more expensive than this lens new, and similar in cost to this lens plus the 1.4x extender. It's all about intended use. I can see a reasonably compact SL kit to travel for landscape/wildlife work with the following SL lenses: 16-35 zoom 50 APO submicron 100-400 zoom 1.4x extender I'm not talking about walk about street photography. More interesting, if you took the kit with the 28-70 SL zoom and the 100-400 SL zoom, the cost would be similar to the 16-35 zoom and a fairly long range with a small gap would be covered. Thus, the 1.4x is an interesting add on to this lens. If the 1.4x is only compatible because of the recessed rear element, then I could see Leica designing another lens, maybe a lower zoom range that would also fit the 1.4x. If it is optically coupled to the 100-400, that wouldn't happen. So I come back to my original post. Nice add for the lens.... 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HPFM Posted March 31, 2023 Share #13 Posted March 31, 2023 After switching from the Sigma 100-400 and TC14 to the new SL Vario 100-400 (yes, I like the Leica lens....) my next step could be to sell my Sigma 150-600 and buy the Leica- Extender (ok, less light, perhaps less performance) to avoid carrying a heavy lens.... Today tried to get some information here from Leica Store (Germany, Stuttgart) or a dealer about the optical performance of the Extender, but no experts here and the marketing guys only tried to sell the extender to me for testing by myself 😬 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellisson Posted March 31, 2023 Share #14 Posted March 31, 2023 12 hours ago, davidmknoble said: At the end of the day, you get what you started with. The 100-400 is a very good lens. Given the APO R and S lenses I have used, along with the APO SL lenses, I don't classify the 100-400 lens in that same category. However, the long-end focal lengths are much easier to correct than wide-angle lenses. So, I don't have reservations using this lens for its intended use. However, I also don't shoot landscapes at 400mm and if I were to use a long focal length for landscapes I would use the APO 90-280 (or an apt R lens). Leica is also known for higher f/stops to preserve quality, which I assume is why this lens starts at f/5.6 and I am not expecting corner-to-corner sharpness without stopping down to f/8-f/11 but even then the depth of field is still narrow and even more so with the 1.4x. So, I come back to: heavy, but compact in size for the focal length; it already has a tripod mount making it more compact (less gear to use); same 82mm filter as the other SL zooms and most of my S lenses (still compact or at least efficient) and weather sealed (not like my R lenses). To really put this lens in perspective, the used Leica R APO 280mm f/4 lens is more expensive than this lens new, and similar in cost to this lens plus the 1.4x extender. It's all about intended use. I can see a reasonably compact SL kit to travel for landscape/wildlife work with the following SL lenses: 16-35 zoom 50 APO submicron 100-400 zoom 1.4x extender I'm not talking about walk about street photography. More interesting, if you took the kit with the 28-70 SL zoom and the 100-400 SL zoom, the cost would be similar to the 16-35 zoom and a fairly long range with a small gap would be covered. Thus, the 1.4x is an interesting add on to this lens. If the 1.4x is only compatible because of the recessed rear element, then I could see Leica designing another lens, maybe a lower zoom range that would also fit the 1.4x. If it is optically coupled to the 100-400, that wouldn't happen. So I come back to my original post. Nice add for the lens.... That two zoom travel kit would be more practical for me also. Spending time in St Croix with fabulous water and beaches is one destination where I’d use that kit with some weather/moisture resistance in a backpack or swing-around pack. Yet…that R 280/4 or a 280/2.8 are also attractive, but more practically for roaming closer to home and at a base with drier conditions. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_50 Posted April 1, 2023 Share #15 Posted April 1, 2023 20 hours ago, HPFM said: After switching from the Sigma 100-400 and TC14 to the new SL Vario 100-400 (yes, I like the Leica lens....) my next step could be to sell my Sigma 150-600 and buy the Leica- Extender (ok, less light, perhaps less performance) to avoid carrying a heavy lens.... Today tried to get some information here from Leica Store (Germany, Stuttgart) or a dealer about the optical performance of the Extender, but no experts here and the marketing guys only tried to sell the extender to me for testing by myself 😬 If you already had the Sigma 100-400 and the 1.4 extender, you should have all the info needed on the Leica’s optical performance. They’re essentially the same. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 1, 2023 Share #16 Posted April 1, 2023 Not necessarily. The mechanics are different and they are as essential as the optical part. (Erwin Puts, Leica Lens Compendium, pp 41-44) 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HPFM Posted April 5, 2023 Share #17 Posted April 5, 2023 (edited) shots with the Leica SL Vario 100-400 at 400...SL2, cropped to 24 megapixels, ISO 400, 7.1, 1/1000, electronic shutter Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited April 5, 2023 by HPFM Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/374846-first-take-on-the-leica-14x-extender-for-the-leica-100-400-zoom/?do=findComment&comment=4743857'>More sharing options...
HPFM Posted April 5, 2023 Share #18 Posted April 5, 2023 (edited) next shot, SL2 at 400, cropped to 24 megapixels, 7.1, 1/1000, electronic shutter Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited April 5, 2023 by HPFM Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/374846-first-take-on-the-leica-14x-extender-for-the-leica-100-400-zoom/?do=findComment&comment=4743859'>More sharing options...
HPFM Posted April 5, 2023 Share #19 Posted April 5, 2023 Sleeping in the sun....SL2, 380 mm, 6.3, 1/1000, electronic shutter Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/374846-first-take-on-the-leica-14x-extender-for-the-leica-100-400-zoom/?do=findComment&comment=4743860'>More sharing options...
HPFM Posted April 5, 2023 Share #20 Posted April 5, 2023 Flying... SL2, 400mm, 6.3, 1/1000, electronic shutter Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/374846-first-take-on-the-leica-14x-extender-for-the-leica-100-400-zoom/?do=findComment&comment=4743862'>More sharing options...
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