Leica SL... Rational or Irrational Camera for a Nature Photographer

[hansvons]

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1 hour ago, BLeventhal said:

As for my interest in Leica... clearly this is a ego/nostalgia mission.

Cool. Don't postpone it. Do it

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[BernardC]

Just try one, preferably from a reputable shop with return privileges. It's a wonderful camera to use, and it's also proven to be very reliable. You might find that you "click" with it, or you might not.

[pgh]

What's a hobby forum without the encouraging of endless consumption of things one doesn't need and are actually an inferior tool for stated purpose? 

[LocalHero1953]

1 minute ago, pgh said:

What's a hobby forum without the encouraging of endless consumption of things one doesn't need and are actually an inferior tool for stated purpose? 

Yes, it's remarkable how the market has decided that Nikon, Canon, Sony and Fuji offer the best value for money for amateurs and professionals alike, by all measurable standards, and yet so many of those amateurs and professionals just want a Leica.🤔

[pgh]

16 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Yes, it's remarkable how the market has decided that Nikon, Canon, Sony and Fuji offer the best value for money for amateurs and professionals alike, by all measurable standards, and yet so many of those amateurs and professionals just want a Leica.🤔

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but OP frankly admits there are no functional reasons in wanting the camera - that coupled with what I find Leica strengths to be (the objective fact and for me useful, practical facts that there are no other digital rangefinder cameras, and there is no smaller full frame digital camera kit) have nothing to do with wildlife photography - I think your observation is a slightly off. 

If Nikon or Sony made a compact interchangeable lens full frame digital camera the size of the M with appreciable improvements that would make a difference in my intended use over my M10, I'd seriously consider it. Japanese manufacturing is still the most reliable and highest quality in almost any segment (in my experience this has certainly been the case with cameras - the problem ratio I have had with Leicas far exceeds any Japanese camera I've ever used, and I've used a lot.)

In fact, I used a Sony Rx1RII instead of a Q when I used to shoot wider more often. But yes - as I said elsewhere - the brand association and the physical design are really the primary (and sometimes) only selling points. If that's enough for a user, then it is. 

[LocalHero1953]

3 minutes ago, pgh said:

I think your observation is a slightly off

What, that people want a Leica despite all the practical and measurable factors being against them?

There was no need to justify your ownership of a Leica. I hadn't mentioned it, and we all understand.....

[Knipsknecht]

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vor einer Stunde schrieb LocalHero1953:

Yes, it's remarkable how the market has decided that Nikon, Canon, Sony and Fuji offer the best value for money for amateurs and professionals alike, by all measurable standards, and yet so many of those amateurs and professionals just want a Leica.🤔

… most luxury tools are by all measurable (technical) standards either outdated or inferior to „average“ custom tools. Every 200,- Euro Seiko Watch shows the time much more precise than a Rolex or any other luxury watch. But still the luxury tools are sought after goods that are mostly even immune to economic cycles (so called “Veblen goods”).

Why is this? These goods incorporate either a certain symbolism of wealth as well as certain specific design features, not necessarily superior but rather rare technological features and a history that provides a certain “aura” (of masculinity, femininity, professionalism etc.) that a customer likes and wants to be associated with.

And this is - at the same time - a strength and a weakness of Leica as a brand.

[LBJ2]

2 hours ago, Knipsknecht said:

… most luxury tools are by all measurable (technical) standards either outdated or inferior to „average“ custom tools. Every 200,- Euro Seiko Watch shows the time much more precise than a Rolex or any other luxury watch. But still the luxury tools are sought after goods that are mostly even immune to economic cycles (so called “Veblen goods”).

Why is this? These goods incorporate either a certain symbolism of wealth as well as certain specific design features, not necessarily superior but rather rare technological features and a history that provides a certain “aura” (of masculinity, femininity, professionalism etc.) that a customer likes and wants to be associated with.

And this is - at the same time - a strength and a weakness of Leica as a brand.

* 

Edited March 11, 2023 by LBJ2

[pgh]

4 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

What, that people want a Leica despite all the practical and measurable factors being against them?

There was no need to justify your ownership of a Leica. I hadn't mentioned it, and we all understand.....

No - that there are a few practical and measurable factors for preferring a Leica...but there aren't that many of them - that wasn't clear? I can be a little long winded at times, apologies. 

[Jeff S]

21 hours ago, BLeventhal said:

I just checked with lensrentals.com in the US and see that the SL and SL2's are in their catalog.

I was just about to suggest this. Good way to know if reality meets fantasy.

Jeff

[Mute-on]

Some threads on the Leica R Macro lenses, etc. Enjoy @BLeventhal!
 

 

[dpitt]

As some others suggested, why not go with the Nikon Z + Leica R lens setup. See where this gets you and then proceed with the SL later if it pleases you. To use all manual lenses like the Leica R line up, all you need is a simple LR-NZ adapter. I have a Novoflex LM - LL adapter and it is good, but I can also recommend the even cheaper URTH adapters. I have used a LM-NZ URTH adapter and it was as good as the Novoflex IMO.

You will not be using the AF possibilities of your body, but I found that MF with R lenses is really easy and after a while you do not miss AF at all. I am old school and prefer MF to AF in most cases for the added control and simplicity. If you want to see samples of Leica R glass for wildlife,  you should look at http://www.wildlightphoto.com/

Some Leica R lenses are real bargains. They can still give stunning results that are hard to match, even with modern gear. One of those hidden gems is the Leica 250mm F4 R. Buy one of those with the URTH adapter and it will probably cost you less than a few days rent for the Leica SL2. Pick up a standard Leica R extender 2x (no ROM or APO needed) and you have a very useable 500mm F8. I am well aware it is heavy, but it is worth the extra sweat hauling it up the mountain and your Nikon lenses are not lightweight either.

I bought mine from someone who published over 4000 dragonfly pictures on a specialised website. Not the easiest subject for a MF lens if you ask me.

The fun part is that it will only get better
If you really want to take a plunge in Leica R tele lenses the Leica R APO Telyt 180 F3.4 and  Leica R  APO Telyt 280 F2.8, with a optional APO extender can give results that are very hard to mach by any lens today. In particular the APO 180mm is still priced a lot cheaper than it should be for its performance. (and nice and compact too) Have a look here if you want links to all the R lenses and threads about them

https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/R_Lenses_x_Focal_Length

Edited March 12, 2023 by dpitt

[larsv]

Hi Bruce,

Love your website!  You definitely don’t need any other gear. Have you thought of the Q, Q-P or Q2?  It’s a wide angle and also semi-macro.  Really fun to use and a beuatiful form factor, especially the Q-P.  Optical quality is very good and pleasing.  

[didier]

Your website is great. Wonderful pics !

 

I have a SL I love for its ergonomics, the superb IQ at low iso (I find there is something special in the 50-64 ISO range).

Works wonderfully for landscape (I own to native Lenses I love : ‘lux SL 50 and the 90-280).

I used it once for wildlife in South Africa with the 90-280. For a previous trip, I had used a Nikon D500 with the 80-400. It was very frustrating with the SL in comparison : as a lot of posts mentioned it, the autofocus tracking is very weak compared to best in class. But the pics I managed (when I managed) to catch with the SL/90-280 were amazing.

 

 

[BernardC]

20 hours ago, Knipsknecht said:

Every 200,- Euro Seiko Watch shows the time much more precise than a Rolex or any other luxury watch.

Off-topic alert:

Ironically, it's "Spring forward" day in parts of North America. I can tell you that the timekeeping accuracy of digital clocks is hugely over-rated! My mechanical watch was much closer to being accurate than any of the 5 digital clocks that I re-set.

I used to have a car with two clocks (one in the instrument cluster, one on the radio). One was fast, the other was slow, which meant that they would only stay synchronized for a few days. I would expect better performance from a good mechanical watch (a Rolex in your example, but other brands are available at different price points).

[BLeventhal]

19 hours ago, larsv said:

Hi Bruce,

Love your website!  You definitely don’t need any other gear. Have you thought of the Q, Q-P or Q2?  It’s a wide angle and also semi-macro.  Really fun to use and a beuatiful form factor, especially the Q-P.  Optical quality is very good and pleasing.  

Hello... Thank you for giving my site a look. I definitely don't need more gear to do what I do... I looked at Q in they appear to be a great discrete camera. I recently saw that the Q2 is the most popular "compact" camera that lens rentals rents... food for thought.

[BLeventhal]

So I threw caution to the wind and purchased a Leica SL (Typ 601) from CameraWest this weekend. I payed $1650 which seems to be on the lower side of the going price. My (new to me) camera is rated at 8+ and appears to be used but not abused. CameraWest offers a 90 day warranty on their used gear, and this will be long enough for me to know if it is destined to fail. 

For those who have not read my initial post, this will supplement an Nikon System that now consists of a Z9, Z6II, 800PF, 400 f4.5, 50mm MC Macro, and 24-120 f4S. I am a wildlife shooter that likes to do a bit of moody landscape work and detail studies. The SL will be my "also" camera, something that I will carry to shoot a mix of nature and shadow play. I will also use it for landscape photography. While 24MP is modest by present standards, I have yet to shoot a 24MP landscape that can't be enlarged to 30" and pass careful scrutiny. 

With respect to lenses, I purchased a used Sigma 45mm DG DN f2.8 so I could have something in the short term to learn the camera. I am open to lens suggestions, but am not interested in buying a $3000 + SL lens at the moment. I need to make a commitment to the camera before going big with the ultra-expensive SL glass. I know Leica makes some "Leicafied" Sigma and Panasonic lenses, but I'm not sure these will fill the niche I am seeking to fill. 

I am curious about Leica R lenses that people might recommend. I have seen that the 2 or 3-cam 100mm f4 Macro-Elmar can be had for less than $500. I am also interested in lens that falls between 16 and 20mm. I am not looking for speed, as I will use these lenses from a tripod and stop down. I've seen that Sigma has these focal lengths in the contemporary line.. but am open to other suggestions.

thanks and regards,

bruce

[Olaf_ZG]

@BLeventhali recently bought a EF adapter as I wanted a ts-e lens and this weekend I discovered there are many great zeiss lenses available for low price, manual focus though.

so, if af isn’t a must, i suggest you take a look: sigma adapter is 150€ secondhand and lenses start at 800€ for almost new.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[BLeventhal]

I love Zeiss optics... Shot w Contax bodies in the 80's and 90's and used a Zeiss (Cosina) 18mm f3.5 in Iceland on my Nikon D810 in 2017... I forgot that these ZE/ZF lenses could be adapted

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, BLeventhal said:

So I threw caution to the wind and purchased a Leica SL (Typ 601) from CameraWest this weekend. I payed $1650 which seems to be on the lower side of the going price. My (new to me) camera is rated at 8+ and appears to be used but not abused. CameraWest offers a 90 day warranty on their used gear, and this will be long enough for me to know if it is destined to fail. 

For those who have not read my initial post, this will supplement an Nikon System that now consists of a Z9, Z6II, 800PF, 400 f4.5, 50mm MC Macro, and 24-120 f4S. I am a wildlife shooter that likes to do a bit of moody landscape work and detail studies. The SL will be my "also" camera, something that I will carry to shoot a mix of nature and shadow play. I will also use it for landscape photography. While 24MP is modest by present standards, I have yet to shoot a 24MP landscape that can't be enlarged to 30" and pass careful scrutiny. 

With respect to lenses, I purchased a used Sigma 45mm DG DN f2.8 so I could have something in the short term to learn the camera. I am open to lens suggestions, but am not interested in buying a $3000 + SL lens at the moment. I need to make a commitment to the camera before going big with the ultra-expensive SL glass. I know Leica makes some "Leicafied" Sigma and Panasonic lenses, but I'm not sure these will fill the niche I am seeking to fill. 

I am curious about Leica R lenses that people might recommend. I have seen that the 2 or 3-cam 100mm f4 Macro-Elmar can be had for less than $500. I am also interested in lens that falls between 16 and 20mm. I am not looking for speed, as I will use these lenses from a tripod and stop down. I've seen that Sigma has these focal lengths in the contemporary line.. but am open to other suggestions.

thanks and regards,

bruce

I'm a bit of the opposite - my main system is an SL 601 and Sigma150-600; I bought the camera specifically for this lens. It balances perfectly and the UI is superior to any other camera that I know.  I use a variety of other gear (mostly Leica M) for general nature and landscape .
I had a Panasonic S5 previously -actually it lives in my safe- but I don't like the colours. Backup is a Leica CL. It does not balance that well, but the results are fine. I am a 24 MP person. I don't print larger than A3+ and have never seen any advantage in more.