250swb Posted February 27, 2023 Share #21 Â Posted February 27, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) There are reasons you could suspect a light leak if it was just one camera, especially if there was longer between shots before the bar appears, but not with two lenses on three different cameras. However, the negative of the boy sat down with legs outstretched, is there a hint of a faint tone matching the bar that goes beyond the edge of the negative? Look very closely at negative 22 in post #18 (and post #16) and the clear negative surround. If so it would imply the bar itself is the correct exposure and it's the rest of the image that is suffering from flare/a leak. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 27, 2023 Posted February 27, 2023 Hi 250swb, Take a look here Strange horizontal bar on negatives driving me crazy!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
105012 Posted February 27, 2023 Share #22 Â Posted February 27, 2023 Could be flare, see this topic with very similar horizontal bar, but on digital M: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/292763-m10-sensor-error-or-hood-blocking-the-light/#comment-3655992 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaidshirts Posted February 27, 2023 Share #23 Â Posted February 27, 2023 The problem persists from 3 different bodies and 2 lenses so you can rule those out as culprits. I don't think it's development error as the lines are too precise. I'd expect to see random splotches, not consistent banding with sharp edges. The only thing I can think of is bad film as someone suggested before. Try the Tri-X as you stated and another color one to confirm. That seems to make the most sense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share #24  Posted February 27, 2023 5 minutes ago, 105012 said: Could be flare, see this topic with very similar horizontal bar, but on digital M: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/292763-m10-sensor-error-or-hood-blocking-the-light/#comment-3655992 Holy cow!!!! This looks EXACTLY like my issue. And as it turns out, I've noticed this the most with my 28mm.  While I *do* use the hood, I don't about 90% of the time.  THANK YOU for finding this.  The thread you linked also links to yet another one on an M-D and M240.  I guess I'm taking the issue even further back in time to film.  Go figure 😅 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share #25 Â Posted February 27, 2023 For anyone in the future: Here's a thread about this happening on the 28mm elmarit v2 asph Here's one about the M10 Here's one about the M-D and the M240 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaidshirts Posted February 28, 2023 Share #26  Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, anonymous said: Holy cow!!!! This looks EXACTLY like my issue. And as it turns out, I've noticed this the most with my 28mm.  While I *do* use the hood, I don't about 90% of the time.  THANK YOU for finding this.  The thread you linked also links to yet another one on an M-D and M240.  I guess I'm taking the issue even further back in time to film.  Go figure 😅 Does the position of the sun and the location of the bar/flare in your photos match adan’s diagram? What about the one with the bar on top AND bottom? I don’t see it but the effect is eerily similar. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited February 28, 2023 by plaidshirts Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/368802-strange-horizontal-bar-on-negatives-driving-me-crazy/?do=findComment&comment=4703812'>More sharing options...
anonymous Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share #27  Posted February 28, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) 4 minutes ago, plaidshirts said: Does the position of the sun and the location of the bar/flare in your photos match adan’s diagram? What about the one with the bar on top AND bottom? I don’t see it but the effect is eerily similar. In some cases yes, but in some cases, no.  I would say there are a few where I definitely wasn't shooting into the sun but the effect is still present.  Here's an example from the same roll as the negatives I pictured earlier. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/368802-strange-horizontal-bar-on-negatives-driving-me-crazy/?do=findComment&comment=4703814'>More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted February 28, 2023 Share #28  Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) Interesting, I have often same on M4-2 with different lenses. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Was told by Leica certified technician with his own Leica seal - curtains for replacement.  And on M-E 220 with Summarit-M 35 2.5 and its hood, just once or twice. Could be two different issues.  Edited February 28, 2023 by Ko.Fe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Was told by Leica certified technician with his own Leica seal - curtains for replacement.  And on M-E 220 with Summarit-M 35 2.5 and its hood, just once or twice. Could be two different issues.  ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/368802-strange-horizontal-bar-on-negatives-driving-me-crazy/?do=findComment&comment=4703828'>More sharing options...
L0071 Posted February 28, 2023 Share #29  Posted February 28, 2023 It looks like your door is leaking   Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakontil Posted February 28, 2023 Share #30  Posted February 28, 2023 11 hours ago, anonymous said: In some cases yes, but in some cases, no.  I would say there are a few where I definitely wasn't shooting into the sun but the effect is still present.  Here's an example from the same roll as the negatives I pictured earlier. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! do you usually cock your shutter before taking a shot? it might be lights accumulating or flares or some sort.. if it flares than it's good, otherwise the light baffle in every of the camera need changing? hope not...  11 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said: Interesting, I have often same on M4-2 with different lenses. Was told by Leica certified technician with his own Leica seal - curtains for replacement.  And on M-E 220 with Summarit-M 35 2.5 and its hood, just once or twice. Could be two different issues.  happened to my m2-r it happened only if i cocked my shutter and let it sit before taking the photos Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaidshirts Posted February 28, 2023 Share #31  Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, anonymous said: In some cases yes, but in some cases, no.  I would say there are a few where I definitely wasn't shooting into the sun but the effect is still present.  Here's an example from the same roll as the negatives I pictured earlier. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! This photo fits the conditions to a tee. The sun was above the lens almost directly in front. I wasn't using a hood on my Elmar 50/2.8. There's even a sliver of a darker, more distinct secondary bar on top. Edited February 28, 2023 by plaidshirts Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted February 28, 2023 Share #32  Posted February 28, 2023 2 hours ago, jakontil said: do you usually cock your shutter before taking a shot? it might be lights accumulating or flares or some sort.. if it flares than it's good, otherwise the light baffle in every of the camera need changing? hope not...  happened to my m2-r it happened only if i cocked my shutter and let it sit before taking the photos  Even if I pre-advance film, most of the time it is not for significant time. M should be as bad as O, in this regard.   1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclectic Man Posted February 28, 2023 Share #33 Â Posted February 28, 2023 You say that you have this issue with three cameras, all 'vintage' Leica M cameras. Â It could be that the same 'wear and tear' issue is affecting all three if none has been serviced and the light seals checked. Â How about this, advance the film and put the camera in a very bright light all round for some minutes. Â Put the lens cap back on and shoot a frame at fastest shutter speed and smallest aperture. Â This should be blank. Â If it is a light seal issue, then maybe it will show up. I have an R5 and the light seal around the film canister window on the hinged back decayed causing fogging. Â It was easy enough to replace (back then). Good luck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share #34 Â Posted February 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Eclectic Man said: You say that you have this issue with three cameras, all 'vintage' Leica M cameras. Â It could be that the same 'wear and tear' issue is affecting all three if none has been serviced and the light seals checked. Â How about this, advance the film and put the camera in a very bright light all round for some minutes. Â Put the lens cap back on and shoot a frame at fastest shutter speed and smallest aperture. Â This should be blank. Â If it is a light seal issue, then maybe it will show up. I have an R5 and the light seal around the film canister window on the hinged back decayed causing fogging. Â It was easy enough to replace (back then). Good luck. Sounds like an interesting experiment! Â My m2 was serviced by DAG in 2022 and my m5 was serviced by him just this year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share #35 Â Posted February 28, 2023 I just grabbed the m6 that made the roll of negatives I showed and did a quick flashlight test: - Body cap off, bottom and back open -- I shined a bright light into the lens mount area in a dark room and looked at the shutter from the back. Â Not a spec of light. - Then, I put the bottom plate on with back closed, camera in bulb mode, and shined the light all around the back to see if I could see something through the lens mount. Â If the door was leaking I would assume I'd see it a little bit. Â Shutter open and nothing -- not a spec of light. Â I still think I could run that experiment you mentioned @Eclectic Man, but maybe this is a decent enough proxy? Â What do you think? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclectic Man Posted February 28, 2023 Share #36  Posted February 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, anonymous said: I just grabbed the m6 that made the roll of negatives I showed and did a quick flashlight test: - Body cap off, bottom and back open -- I shined a bright light into the lens mount area in a dark room and looked at the shutter from the back.  Not a spec of light. - Then, I put the bottom plate on with back closed, camera in bulb mode, and shined the light all around the back to see if I could see something through the lens mount.  If the door was leaking I would assume I'd see it a little bit.  Shutter open and nothing -- not a spec of light.  I still think I could run that experiment you mentioned @Eclectic Man, but maybe this is a decent enough proxy?  What do you think? Seems like you found a pretty good alternative to my suggestion, only issue could be that if the fogging is due to a light leak, and the leak is quite small, you might not notice it unless your eye is 'dark adapted', which might be tricky when using a flashlight.  I suggested in an earlier post that you ask Ilford.  Try https://www.ilfordphoto.com/contact-form/ , after all, they must have come across any number of weird film camera faults. Good luck 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huss Posted February 28, 2023 Share #37 Â Posted February 28, 2023 I've had that similar bar flare pattern on my Nikon F2 w/ CV 40 f2. Â But it has been very rare. Â Also Nikon had a recall of their D750 because there was something in the mirror box that could cause the same shape flare patterns, if the light hit it just wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share #38 Â Posted February 28, 2023 While not directly contributing to this thread, I wanted to take a beat to thank everyone who has responded here. Â This is the first thread I've started here on the forums (though I've been a long time lurker) and you all have been wonderful. Â Thank you so much for all your input, advice, ideas, etc. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuboZ Posted March 3, 2023 Share #39  Posted March 3, 2023 Hi, as well as I know if the color of this light leak is white it comes from shutter not back door. I have this as well, I suspect light seals around shutter on my M4-P. It happens usually when I leave the camera sitting for a longer time without lens cap on (longer means in hours not days). The lens cap seems to help a lot as well as (maybe) covering lens with hand white rewinding (not sure about this one really). I’m going to send it for CLA to take care for light seals and hope that’s the problem. BTW last time it happened in a massive way was while using sonnar 50 1.5 usually wide open or close to that and leaving the camera somewhere without lens hood one (which I lost long time ago…). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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