Monochrom’ers also M colour?

[Nimar]

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I’ve exclusively shot B/W for the last 15 years. I’ve a q2m (that I’m trying to sell) and an m10-m. Prior to that I shot b/w film and converted colour photos from phone into B/w (had it defaulted to B/w). 
 

From some other comments it seemed some own both a m10-R and m10-M or similar combo. If so how do you choose which to use?

I’m on the hunt for a second used body and am leaning towards another m10-m so I can have a back up but also to carry two lenses at times. Having a colour body might be useful for some niche uses but I fear I’d always be frustrated with it and if carrying both would just use whatever lens was on the monochrom. 
 

Part of my love of B/w and Lecias is having fewer options, having a colour camera would introduce too much complexity in my mind. 

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[mediumformula]

Why don't you get a Leica MP so you can shoot color film every now then when not shooting b&w film. 

[Jeff S]

I own the M10 Monochrom and the M10-R. But I never take them out on the same shoot. One of the greatest benefits of the M10M for me is maintaining a b&w mindset, whereby I’m never distracted by looking for potential color pics (similar to shooting rolls of b&w film).  As we know, color hue and saturation have no effect on b&w tonality; only luminance (brightness) matters. I can intentionally, and successfully, take pics meant for b&w with a color-based camera (with the added benefit of using color channels in post), but without the same visual and shooting discipline.
 

As a primarily b&w shooter, my M10-R therefore gets far less use.  I take it out when I am specifically in the mood to shoot at least some color work. I also own the SL2, but for very different shooting needs (zooms, weather sealing, etc) and experiences (AF, focus aids, IBIS, etc). Still mostly b&w, but not exclusively.

Jeff

[Nimar]

32 minutes ago, mediumformula said:

Why don't you get a Leica MP so you can shoot color film every now then when not shooting b&w film. 

Just don’t have the time budget for film anymore (two small kids). And beyond loving the idea of a truly mechanical camera, I’ve no particular nostalgia for film over digital.  Sold my film cameras, scanner, and developing paraphernalia years ago.  

[UliWer]

I have never been fond of taking black and white photos, neither with film nor digital. My interest in b+w started after I got interested in using "old" lenses: often they don't look good with color: washed out, and/or too warm/cold etc. Converting color to b+w seemed manipulative to me and I didn't like the lack of decision to go one way or other. So when the M10 Monochrome came out and I looked at my ever increasing row of "old glass" I took the risk - and liked the experience very much. Since then the "new" glass sticks on the camera with color and the "old" on the Monochrome and I am enjoying the "old" way a lot more than my traditional path of color.

[Nimar]

9 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

I own the M10 Monochrom and the M10-R. But I never take them out on the same shoot. One of the greatest benefits of the M10M for me is maintaining a b&w mindset, whereby I’m never distracted by looking for potential color pics (similar to shooting rolls of b&w film).  As we know, color hue and saturation have no effect on b&w tonality; only luminance (brightness) matters. I can intentionally, and successfully, take pics meant for b&w with a color-based camera (with the added benefit of using color channels in post), but without the same visual and shooting discipline.
 

As a primarily b&w shooter, my M10-R therefore gets far less use.  I take it out when I am specifically in the mood to shoot at least some color work. I also own the SL2, but for very different shooting needs (zooms, weather sealing, etc) and experiences (AF, focus aids, IBIS, etc). Still mostly b&w, but not exclusively.

Jeff

Agree entirely on how a monochrom camera provides focus. I suspect the same would happen if I had a m10-r. It would be a very expensive paper weight and if it had to serve backup purpose I’d be annoyed by the extra process steps. Also not benefit from the option of using two lenses at once. 
 

I know these are famous last words but I’d like the m10-m to actually be my forever setup, or at the very least for a good 10 years. 

[Jeff S]

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If forced to pick one, I could do very well with just the M10 Monochrom.  There’s something to be said for the “less is more” approach. As long as one enjoys the process and can produce the desired end results.  For me, that’s a good print of a worthy pic; the gear used doesn’t matter at the end of the day, especially not to others.

Jeff

[Gregm61]

M246 and M262 here, often but not always in the Artisan and Artist GCAM 1000 bag at the same time, with anywhere from 3-5 lenses. 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Gregm61

[kkochheiser]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

I own the M10 Monochrom and the M10-R. But I never take them out on the same shoot. One of the greatest benefits of the M10M for me is maintaining a b&w mindset, whereby I’m never distracted by looking for potential color pics (similar to shooting rolls of b&w film).  As we know, color hue and saturation have no effect on b&w tonality; only luminance (brightness) matters. I can intentionally, and successfully, take pics meant for b&w with a color-based camera (with the added benefit of using color channels in post), but without the same visual and shooting discipline.
 

As a primarily b&w shooter, my M10-R therefore gets far less use.  I take it out when I am specifically in the mood to shoot at least some color work. I also own the SL2, but for very different shooting needs (zooms, weather sealing, etc) and experiences (AF, focus aids, IBIS, etc). Still mostly b&w, but not exclusively.

Jeff

Exactly this.

[pippy]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

I own the M10 Monochrom and the M10-R. But I never take them out on the same shoot. One of the greatest benefits of the M10M for me is maintaining a b&w mindset...

I adopt a slightly different approach in maintaining my b&w mindset when using my M Monochrom and Colour (M-D Typ-262) bodies.

95%+ of my images are rendered in B'n'W regardless of whether they were captured in colour. If I'm going out with the intention of some serious B'n'W snapping I will carry both cameras (usually with 28mm and 35mm lenses fitted) and will often have Orange filters on the lenses of each camera. The 35 will have the 12504 hood on which can easily be slipped off in a matter of seconds if I absolutely need to take a colour snap.

Philip.

[Olaf_ZG]

After two years of searching/creating a perfect system (for me, to be clear), I have a m10m for b/w.

a q2 is for daily colourful life, whereas the SL is for specific needs.

Also, despite the fact I have more lenses, I only use one on the m.

so, if I go out with the m, I know it will be b/w, 50mm only and I really enjoy this simplicity…

[Jeff S]

21 minutes ago, pippy said:

I adopt a slightly different approach in maintaining my b&w mindset when using my M Monochrom and Colour (M-D Typ-262) bodies.

95%+ of my images are rendered in B'n'W regardless of whether they were captured in colour. If I'm going out with the intention of some serious B'n'W snapping I will carry both cameras (usually with 28mm and 35mm lenses fitted) and will often have Orange filters on the lenses of each camera. The 35 will have the 12504 hood on which can easily be slipped off in a matter of seconds if I absolutely need to take a colour snap.

Philip.

But that means that you’re still aware of (or looking for) color pics, even if only taken infrequently.  Maybe I should have referred to it as an exclusively b&w mindset, which is the distinction of a Monochrom for me.  I, too, shot 95% in b&w with my color-based digital cameras.  But anything less than 100% results in a totally different mindset for me, which I didn’t expect until after I bought a Monochrom. It’s not about the percentage, or ease of taking, the pics; rather it’s about having zero distractions looking for them in the first place. That’s the mindset, just like my b&w film days. But each individual will have different experiences.

Jeff

[pippy]

2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

But that means that you’re still aware of......color pics, even if only taken infrequently...

Yes, Jeff, you are spot-on when you say that I can approach my snapping with a mindset which allows me still to be aware of the possibility that there will be a situation where an image might work 'better' in colour than in monochrome.

My being able to switch-on to capturing a colour frame, however, is not something which would distract me from the monochrome mindset which is - and pretty much always has been - my default setting. In fact it is this B'n'W approach to my own personal photography which has me fitting colour-contrast filters at the shooting stage rather than sorting them out with sliders later in post-production.

As you quite rightly say;

"...each individual will have different experiences."

Philip.

[DadDadDaddyo]

This is both interesting and relevant to a dilemma I'm currently wrestling with. 

I didn't really shoot color in a serious sense until digital SLRs came along and then suddenly the camera I had was producing color results, despite what my eye was "seeing".

This forced a realization and an adjustment upon me. The way I observed potential shots hadn't changed, and for quite a while I simply continued to produce shots using monochrome thinking. The result was that color elements would appear in my shots by "accident". For quite a while in the early 2000s I was at a loss as to how to deal with them. My spouse is a painter, and she helped me to begin to come to terms with these color elements over time. 

The fact that reality has color does not impose upon us an obligation to incorporate it into our work. Charcoal, or pen and ink, remain valid modes of image creation even in the presence of pastels and oil paints. It's about choices and interpretation. 

So here's my dilemma. I'm preparing for a first-time trip to a visually rich and personally unknown environment, to take place in about eight months. My instinct suspects that I'll want color, but I'll certainly want my M10M along as well,  because it's my most natural and comfortable tool. 

My color-capable choices on hand are a Fujifilm GFX100S and a Leica SL2, both with a nice set of lenses. However, the trip will involve a great deal of walking, and if I surrender to the temptation to carry two bodies (lightly with a different focal length prime on each), there's an argument for acquiring a color-capable M body. 

An M11 would be the obvious choice. On the other hand, an M10-R would employ the same batteries I carry for the M10M, could use the same electronic viewfinder, and would have me working in a close as possible to a perfectly equivalent muscle-memory set. As I would see a shot I'd simply lift one or the other camera for black and white or color. I've got a great two-camera harness. 

Naturally I realize the color-capable body alone would give me files I could render as black and white if I chose. But as my eye looks around and sees shots, it's already evaluating, "Color," or, "That's for the M10M..." Saves time in post. 

Anyway, this is what I'm mulling my way through these days. It's become a kind of pre-project of it's own.

So long story short, this thread represents real and valid issues that folks who are serious about their photography can usefully reflect upon and experiment with. I've been looking over a lot of threads here, and while many provide insights tangentially, this one's right in the wheelhouse!

So, Thank You to the original poster, and to each who have contributed to this conversation. I appreciate your perspectives, and I assure you, your contributions are useful in ways beyond what you may expect as you write. 

Thanks all!

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by DadDadDaddyo
Typos

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

This is both interesting and relevant to a dilemma I'm currently wrestling with. 

I didn't really shoot color in a serious sense until digital SLRs came along and then suddenly the camera I had was producing color results, despite what my eye was "seeing".

This forced a realization and an adjustment upon me. The way I observed potential shots hadn't changed, and for quite a while I simply continued to produce shots using monochrome thinking. The result was that color elements would appear in my shots by "accident". For quite a while in the early 2000s I was at a loss as to how to deal with them. My spouse is a painter, and she helped me to begin to come to terms with these color elements over time. 

The fact that reality has color does not impose upon us an obligation to incorporate it into our work. Charcoal, or pen and ink, remain valid modes of image creation even in the presence of pastels and oil paints. It's about choices and interpretation. 

So here's my dilemma. I'm preparing for a first-time trip to a visually rich and personally unknown environment, to take place in about eight months. My instinct suspects that I'll want color, but I'll certainly want my M10M along as well,  because it's my most natural and comfortable tool. 

My color-capable choices on hand are a Fujifilm GFX100S and a Leica SL2, both with a nice set of lenses. However, the trip will involve a great deal of walking, and if I surrender to the temptation to carry two bodies (lightly with a different focal length prime on each), there's an argument for acquiring a color-capable M body. 

An M11 would be the obvious choice. On the other hand, an M10-R would employ the same batteries I carry for the M10M, could use the same electronic viewfinder, and would have me working in a close as possible to a perfectly equivalent muscle-memory set. As I would see a shot I'd simply lift one or the other camera for black and white or color. I've got a great two-camera harness. 

Naturally I realize the color-capable body alone would give me files I could render as black and white if I chose. But as my eye looks around and sees shots, it's already evaluating, "Color," or, "That's for the M10M..." Saves time in post. 

Anyway, this is what I'm mulling my way through these days. It's become a kind of pre-project of it's own.

So long story short, this thread represents real and valid issues that folks who are serious about their photography can usefully reflect upon and experiment with. I've been looking over a lot of threads here, and while many provide insights tangentially, this one's right in the wheelhouse!

So, Thank You to the original poster, and to each who have contributed to this conversation. I appreciate your perspectives, and I assure you, your contributions are useful in ways beyond what you may expect as you write. 

Thanks all!

 

I’ve already given my view on this.  My M10M is not carried along with a color-based camera; only used when ‘seeing’ and shooting is exclusively b&w.  Otherwise, I will pick the color-based camera that best suits the circumstances, subject matter and desired shooting experience (M10-R or SL2). I will still shoot intentionally, either for b&w (mostly) or color, not wait until PP to decide.  A benefit of using the color-based camera is the ability to use color channels in post, which provides more flexibility than using colored lens filters with the Monochrom.  A potential downside, however, is not being as locked into a b&w mindset, which might or might not affect resulting output. All of my cameras are capable of producing fine pics, and prints, if I do my job well, so IQ is really not an obstacle.

Jeff

[fededuran]

I only own an M11, but shoot 2/3rds of my work in bnw. 

That color third was the reason that prompted me to buy the M11. 

But I have never tried any camera like the M10M. I'd go so far as to say that it has a quality that is almost impossible to replicate in any other digital camera: it is without a doubt the sensor that most reminds me of analog photography.

Those two factors (amount of production in bnw and irreplaceable quality of monochrome sensors) are what make me want to add an M11M as soon as possible. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by fededuran

[johnwolf]

The only reason I can see for the OP to consider a color camera is to post-process color channels. After using the first two Monochroms for years and now an M10, I'm enjoying having that option and not using filters. I've shot BW-only forever and with color or BW bodies always have a "BW mindset." To me that has nothing to do with the body, but rather how you see the scene and envision the photograph.  

It's a little odd opening a file in color for post work. But it's also nice to know I can render colors as I want, rather than as Leica engineers decided. Monochrom files are generally beautiful, but often the ability for more tonal separation through channels is great, too.   

John

[Nimar]

29 minutes ago, johnwolf said:

The only reason I can see for the OP to consider a color camera is to post-process color channels. After using the first two Monochroms for years and now an M10, I'm enjoying having that option and not using filters. I've shot BW-only forever and with color or BW bodies always have a "BW mindset." To me that has nothing to do with the body, but rather how you see the scene and envision the photograph.  

It's a little odd opening a file in color for post work. But it's also nice to know I can render colors as I want, rather than as Leica engineers decided. Monochrom files are generally beautiful, but often the ability for more tonal separation through channels is great, too.   

John

Personally I don’t want the options.
 

Ive chosen the shutter speed, the aperture, the lens and I’m fine with only one more choice, yellow or orange or maybe red filter but the rest being out of my hands. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[ramarren]

On 2/12/2023 at 8:48 AM, Nimar said:

I’ve exclusively shot B/W for the last 15 years. I’ve a q2m (that I’m trying to sell) and an m10-m. Prior to that I shot b/w film and converted colour photos from phone into B/w (had it defaulted to B/w). 
 

From some other comments it seemed some own both a m10-R and m10-M or similar combo. If so how do you choose which to use?

I’m on the hunt for a second used body and am leaning towards another m10-m so I can have a back up but also to carry two lenses at times. Having a colour body might be useful for some niche uses but I fear I’d always be frustrated with it and if carrying both would just use whatever lens was on the monochrom. 
 

Part of my love of B/w and Lecias is having fewer options, having a colour camera would introduce too much complexity in my mind. 

I tend to prefer B&W photography over color, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy color photographs as well. I just acquired an M10-R so as to have two complementary cameras that use all the same lenses, batteries, and accessories. Of course, I have other color-capable cameras, but this is the digital kit that i'm trying to get down to .. just the two Leica M10 bodies. 

When to choose which ... Well, I only carry one camera at a time when I'm out shooting, and typically only one lens but sometimes two. So I choose whether i want B&W or color as I get ready to go out. (The same is true if I'm going out carrying a color-capable camera—I make the decision whether I'm shooting for B&W or color before I start shooting.)

It's simple really, a matter of personal discipline. 

G

[dpitt]

Let me admit first that I shoot mostly in color and have no experience with M camera's. When I go out with the mindset to shoot B&W, I put a yellow or orange filter on the lens and shoot away in DNG. As long as you do not take the filter off, B&W is basically your only option.

The big advantage on a trip IMO is that you can change this on the fly and shoot color one day and B&W the other.

Edited February 13, 2023 by dpitt