Beginning of the end?

[sebben]

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I see that all Leica S lenses on Bhphoto and Adorama are listed as special order. Some are even listed as discontinued.

Perhaps the Mirrorless S system will be announced soon.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Medium-Format-Lenses/ci/467/N/4288584244?filters=fct_brand_name%3Aleica

https://www.adorama.com/l/?searchinfo=leica s 180mm&sel=Item-Condition_New-Items

https://www.adorama.com/l/?searchinfo=leica s 180mm&sel=Item-Condition_New-Items

 

[Paul0303]

I think it's been special order for a long time, its a very slow moving product and why would a dealer tie up capital in it? Basically I think Leica will keep it alive until the mirrorless S arrives just to keep the market presence in medium format but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[helged]

2 hours ago, sebben said:

I see that all Leica S lenses on Bhphoto and Adorama are listed as special order. Some are even listed as discontinued.

Perhaps the Mirrorless S system will be announced soon.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Medium-Format-Lenses/ci/467/N/4288584244?filters=fct_brand_name%3Aleica

https://www.adorama.com/l/?searchinfo=leica s 180mm&sel=Item-Condition_New-Items

https://www.adorama.com/l/?searchinfo=leica s 180mm&sel=Item-Condition_New-Items

 

Mirrorless S (possibly) in 2025: 

https://leicarumors.com/2022/10/19/extremely-interesting-comments-from-stefan-daniel-leica-mirrorless-medium-format-camera-m-camera-with-evf-and-more.aspx/

[sebben]

4 hours ago, Paul0303 said:

I think it's been special order for a long time, its a very slow moving product and why would a dealer tie up capital in it? Basically I think Leica will keep it alive until the mirrorless S arrives just to keep the market presence in medium format but I wouldn't hold my breath.

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[LeicaR10]

Sebben, I don't think this is the beginning of the end.  Most likely the CS lenses are not big sellers.  There are a lot of refurbished (new AF motors) S lenses available and bargin priced to keep this small niche MF market happy/going until the S4 and lenses arrive in 2025.  I would not be surprised if the S4 and a new S lens lineup is made available for the pros all at once, no waiting for lenses. The original S lenses will most likely be backward compatible with S4 like other M and SL camera systems.  If a pro or well heeled amateur needs/wants a S CS lens they will be there.  Just my thoughts on the most excellent S system.  r/ Mark

[Pieter12]

These are quite expensive, slow-moving items with a very limited consumer base.They have been out for a while and most customers who would buy them new already have what they need. It does not make sense for a retailer to tie up funds by keeping them in stock.

[davidmknoble]

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I also think with new flashes, even new LED studio lights, that central shutters are not as necessary even for the pros.  If it is, they already have the CS lenses. It makes some sense to discontinue the CS lens types..

 

[Eclectic Man]

The UK Leica store lists the non CS 180 lens as to order, but definitely still available.  The 180 CS lens is also available to order.

https://store.leica-camera.com/uk/en/apo-elmar-s-180mm-f/3.5-cs 

Both outside my price / ego range, I'm afraid ;o)

[helged]

4 hours ago, Eclectic Man said:

The UK Leica store lists the non CS 180 lens as to order, but definitely still available.  The 180 CS lens is also available to order.

https://store.leica-camera.com/uk/en/apo-elmar-s-180mm-f/3.5-cs 

Both outside my price / ego range, I'm afraid ;o)

The S180 is a marvelous lens, and are available used at reduced cost. Highly recommended, also on SLx.

[sebben]

I really want to buy a used one…

[steveash]

On 2/11/2023 at 12:20 PM, davidmknoble said:

I also think with new flashes, even new LED studio lights, that central shutters are not as necessary even for the pros.  If it is, they already have the CS lenses. It makes some sense to discontinue the CS lens types..

 

While that is certainly the trend, central/leaf shutters can still do things other methods can’t. Overpowering the sun and cutting out ambient reflections with fast, high powered flash will always be the party trick but I’m not sure there is enough demand to make them worth keeping. 

[steveash]

On 2/13/2023 at 11:08 PM, Al Brown said:

Not really relevant anymore with today's HSS strobes... It used to be THE thing for focal plane shutter cameras with slow sync speeds like Pentax 67, put on the leaf shutter lens and sync with all speeds... Today's HSS units are weaker, but high ISO capabilities of quality CMOS sensors help overcome the lack of strength. So except flash power (and optional battery life) I see no advantages in having a leaf shutter, but of course it depends on what type of photography you do (I shoot fashion).

Boosting ISO won’t help the ratio of ambient light to flash. Leaf shutters are a big help when shooting into bright light with a wide aperture. It’s also very useful for cutting ambient reflections on smooth surfaces. I shoot automotive and fuel be it useful to turn daylight into a dark studio with only flash reflections on chrome or paintwork. Granted this is a fairly niche use case but I do find it a really useful tool to have available.

[Stuart Richardson]

My own suspicion is that most of the S lenses are probably functionally discontinued. In the sense that Leica probably retains some stock of them, but they are slowly selling them out as the system either transitions to a new S camera or discontinues the system. Selling a new S lens is something that I imagine happens quite rarely these days. It would be interesting to know how many new S lenses B&H sells in a year. I would not be surprised at all if it were under 10. Even most Leica stores seem hesitant to stock things from the S system (when I was selling, several of them said they do not take used S gear because it is so difficult to sell, or they offer an extremely low price for it, to make up for that risk). Selling new S lenses is difficult not just because the system is a slow seller, but because there are a good number of used lenses available for a tiny fraction of the new price, which is still very high.

In my experience, Leica does not really announce that a system or product is discontinued until it basically comes quite near to selling out. Of course, there is nothing to stop Leica from making another batch if they see the need, but my guess is that the last seven or eight years have been the slow trickle of S supplies selling out. The S3 itself is more or less a way to shift stock of S007 bodies and parts, given that it is essentially the same camera with a newer sensor. The newest S lens was released 9 years ago now, and the gear based AF system was a bit dated even in 2008 when it was released (though there were good reasons Leica used it), so I think that if we do see something new from the S system, it is likely going to need to be all new, in which case there is likely going to be even less demand for the old lenses, especially since they are still very very expensive when bought new from Leica, even if their value on the secondary market is a small fraction of their retail.

[Sarnian]

There are Perrier drinks. There are Evian drinkers. There are tap water drinkers. Which drinkers are better hydrated..? 🤑

 

 

[steveash]

On 2/15/2023 at 6:33 AM, Al Brown said:

No question it being really useful. It helped me for 20 years syncing strobes in sunlight with wide aperture on medium format. Have you tried contemporary HSS?

I have to say I haven’t but. I haven’t really considered HSS to be anywhere near powerful enough for my uses. Perhaps I should hire something and have a play around. 

[gotium]

9 minutes ago, gotium said:

I also did the same. They seemed to be testing simply how much they can extort from loyal customers without needing to provide quality - only the perception of quality.
 

The takeaway for me was “buy Fuji!”