¿What would you do in my case? My first Leica.

[Aeio-u]

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Hello everyone,

I recently bought my first Leica. It is an R4S in excellent condition, and now I am trying to find a lens for the camera. 

First of all, I have been shooting both analog and digital for years now, and therefore already have lenses. For analog, I have a Tamron Adaptall II 28-70 and a Zeiss Planar 50mm f1/1.7 with C/Y mount. 

I would love to be able to mount the Zeiss on the Leica R but I can't find adapters anywhere and from what little I know, they are incompatible. Does anyone know more about this?

Secondly, I can mount the Tamron with the Adaptall adapter to R. This is about $120. But I think I will be losing a lot of photo quality. 

Lastly, buying a Leica lens with the financial effort involved. At the moment, to get out of the way, I have found the 28-70 Vario Elmar to be well priced and it would help me use the camera while I save up for a more expensive lens. 

What do you think? What would you do in my case?

Thank you.

Aeio-u

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[dpitt]

8 hours ago, Aeio-u said:

I would love to be able to mount the Zeiss on the Leica R but I can't find adapters anywhere and from what little I know, they are incompatible. Does anyone know more about this?

Secondly, I can mount the Tamron with the Adaptall adapter to R. This is about $120. But I think I will be losing a lot of photo quality. 

Lastly, buying a Leica lens with the financial effort involved. At the moment, to get out of the way, I have found the 28-70 Vario Elmar to be well priced and it would help me use the camera while I save up for a more expensive lens. 

What do you think? What would you do in my case?

Thank you.

Aeio-u

1. The flange distance for the Zeiss is less than for R, so it can not be used with an adapter. You will find that most lenses will have that issue unless they are made for R or if they have a universal adapter like with Sigma and Tamron
2. The Adpatall adapter for your Tamron will not cause any optical loss. It will perform just as it did with your old body.
3. Buying a cheap Leica R lens is an option. It will be an improvement over the Tamron probably, but maybe not that much. The 28-70 is one of the lesser lenses. Any prime R lens will do better.

What would I do? I do not know your budget or even your shooting preferences. The Zeiss Planar can not be used on any R, it will not reach infinity even if you find an adapter. I think it is a good lens. If you buy a mirrorless digital body some day it will perform. The CL, TL SL are the only Leica bodies that can use it, and the the M bodies but you can only focus it with the EVF or live view, not with the RF. It is up to you if you want to sell it.

The Adaptall adapter is rather expensive. I see 2 options, either buy an other adaptall lens for the Leica R, this way with the adapter that comes with it you can use both on your Leica R. Or sell it too. IMO adding $120 for the adapter only is not worth the trouble. For double that you could get the 28-70 Leica R lens. And for $120 you can probably pick up some bargain primes like a 135 or 180mm, or a 80-200 zoom or 75-200 zoom, all leica R and much better than their price may suggest.

The last option is what I would do. Sell the other 2 lenses or keep using them as they are now. And buy a Leica 35-70 zoom, or even a 28-70. If you still have an other body that works with your lenses,  I would buy a 75-200 or 80-200 and use the Leica only for tele now. You will have full Leica quality at bargain prices.

 

 

 

[earleygallery]

I suppose another question is what made you want to buy the R4s? 

If you want to get into Leica then you really want to find a Leica lens as well - a 50 Summicron is a good start, or a 35 Summicron or Elmarit (the Elmarit is cheaper). The 135 R also sells quite cheaply - make sure you buy an 'R' cam or 3 cam lens. Some older lenses will be 1 or 2 cam lenses and won't work on the R4.

Get a Tamron adaptor if you find one for a good price - I use a couple of Tamron lenses on my R. The Tamron primes are nice, I particularly like the 24 and 28.

There are no other adaptors for fitting other lenses to the Leica R mount.

[Aeio-u]

14 hours ago, dpitt said:

1. The flange distance for the Zeiss is less than for R, so it can not be used with an adapter. You will find that most lenses will have that issue unless they are made for R or if they have a universal adapter like with Sigma and Tamron
2. The Adpatall adapter for your Tamron will not cause any optical loss. It will perform just as it did with your old body.
3. Buying a cheap Leica R lens is an option. It will be an improvement over the Tamron probably, but maybe not that much. The 28-70 is one of the lesser lenses. Any prime R lens will do better.

What would I do? I do not know your budget or even your shooting preferences. The Zeiss Planar can not be used on any R, it will not reach infinity even if you find an adapter. I think it is a good lens. If you buy a mirrorless digital body some day it will perform. The CL, TL SL are the only Leica bodies that can use it, and the the M bodies but you can only focus it with the EVF or live view, not with the RF. It is up to you if you want to sell it.

The Adaptall adapter is rather expensive. I see 2 options, either buy an other adaptall lens for the Leica R, this way with the adapter that comes with it you can use both on your Leica R. Or sell it too. IMO adding $120 for the adapter only is not worth the trouble. For double that you could get the 28-70 Leica R lens. And for $120 you can probably pick up some bargain primes like a 135 or 180mm, or a 80-200 zoom or 75-200 zoom, all leica R and much better than their price may suggest.

The last option is what I would do. Sell the other 2 lenses or keep using them as they are now. And buy a Leica 35-70 zoom, or even a 28-70. If you still have an other body that works with your lenses,  I would buy a 75-200 or 80-200 and use the Leica only for tele now. You will have full Leica quality at bargain prices.

 

 

 

 

14 hours ago, earleygallery said:

I suppose another question is what made you want to buy the R4s? 

If you want to get into Leica then you really want to find a Leica lens as well - a 50 Summicron is a good start, or a 35 Summicron or Elmarit (the Elmarit is cheaper). The 135 R also sells quite cheaply - make sure you buy an 'R' cam or 3 cam lens. Some older lenses will be 1 or 2 cam lenses and won't work on the R4.

Get a Tamron adaptor if you find one for a good price - I use a couple of Tamron lenses on my R. The Tamron primes are nice, I particularly like the 24 and 28.

There are no other adaptors for fitting other lenses to the Leica R mount.

 

Hello again,

first of all, thanks to both of you for helping me with the post.

A few things:

1. The main reason I bought the Leica R4s is because my main analogue camera (Contax Quartz 139) is on its last legs. It's been in for over a month now with a specialist and I don't know how I'll end up. I've always wanted to try analogue Leica and I've decided it was time.

2.The 50 Zeiss Planar lens is normally used with the Contax but also with my Nikon D700 (my only digital camera). Therefore, I am not considering selling it.

3. The Tamron 28-70mm is a lens that, with the adapter, I could use on all 3 cameras (Contax, D700 and R4S). I'm not too fond of it and I could sell it but I would lose versatility.

Right now I have a budget of about $300. Ruling out that I'm not going to buy the Vario Elmar 28-70 (due to bad reputation), what lens would you recommend? I usually like to shoot architecture (I'm an architect), landscapes (nature), streets and details. (Previously I made a post about the condition of another 50mm Summicron that I have discarded due to fungus)

Right now, an acquaintance is offering me a Vario Elmar R 75-200 F4.5 E60 at a good price ($230), an Elmarit R II 135mm F2.8 2CAM ($419) and a Summicron R 50mm F2 ($460). All very well cared for and in excellent condition.

Perhaps the wiser choice is to save up and not buy a lens right now, but I'm really looking forward to shooting with the R4S. I can buy the Adaptall 2 to R (arround $100) and use my Tamron while I'm saving.

Again, thanks to both of you.

Aeio-u

Edited February 10, 2023 by Aeio-u

[earleygallery]

8 hours ago, Aeio-u said:

 

 

 

Right now, an acquaintance is offering me a Vario Elmar R 75-200 F4.5 E60 at a good price ($230), an Elmarit R II 135mm F2.8 2CAM ($419) and a Summicron R 50mm F2 ($460). All very well cared for and in excellent condition.

Perhaps the wiser choice is to save up and not buy a lens right now, but I'm really looking forward to shooting with the R4S. I can buy the Adaptall 2 to R (arround $100) and use my Tamron while I'm saving.

Again, thanks to both of you.

Aeio-u

Hi,

Given what you say you shoot, the 75-200 doesn't sound like it will be so useful? The 135 is 2 cam so no good for your camera. The Summicron is probably the best all rounder, or go for the Tamron adaptor and pick up a couple of their primes, a 24 and a 135 perhaps (both decent lenses) which will give you a lot of choice along with your 28-70.

[jaapv]

11 hours ago, Aeio-u said:

Vario Elmar 28-70 (due to bad reputation)

Which is totally un-earned. In fact it is a really nice lens which has only been talked down by Leica snobbery as it was built in cooperation with Sigma. It is certainly A LOT better than your Tamron.

[dpitt]

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2 minutes ago, cbass said:

Find a well-priced Summicron-R 50. That is not too difficult, and they are plentiful. Be happy.

Next if it goes well, then you can find a well-priced Elmarit-R 90. Be happier.

After that it gets harder. Well priced wide angles are harder to find. But by then you will either decide to sell it all and get your money back or you will be hooked and willing to put the money into a wide angle.

Plan B. Find a 35-70 F4 and cover all or 95% of what you need giving up a fast aperture and be happy.

First of all, I think both the 75-200 and the 135 mm can be found at a lower price if you take your time and do not fuss over cosmetics.

Summicron 50 is a great lens. Buy any version, I or II as long as it is 3-cam. Unfortunately I have seen the prices rising lately. It may be difficult to find a 50cron on a budget.

Plan B indeed sounds good with your budget, and the 35-70 is more in line with the built quality of other R lenses. Jaap may be right, 28-70 is optically not bad at all, but in my two samples the sunhood would not stay out at all if you pointed the lens upwards. It just felt different. Distortion was a bit higher than the 35-70 too.

Plan C. Try to find a Summicron or Elmarit 35mm. I think it is perfect for architecture. If you can live with the F2.8 (one stop slower than the Summicron) the Elmarit is the best 35mm for you. The Elmarit will even be cheaper than the Summicron 50. Although 35mm R lenses are not as plentiful, you can find them if you take your time. Patience is key if you want a good price.

[dpitt]

14 hours ago, Aeio-u said:

...

Right now I have a budget of about $300. Ruling out that I'm not going to buy the Vario Elmar 28-70 (due to bad reputation), what lens would you recommend? I usually like to shoot architecture (I'm an architect), landscapes (nature), streets and details.

...

Sorry I did not think of it, but if you are going to use an all analog workflow you might think of buying the 35mm f/4 PA-Curtagon-R. It is especially designed for architecture and can correct POV distortion before you take the picture. Of course, if you scan the image you could correct it in PP.

It was developed by Schneider-Kreuznach This lens is relatively rare, but pops up for sale regularly. See comments here

 

[hepcat]

The Leica R system is really not the system to be buing into if you're trying to do it on a budget.    The R lenses have gone up almost geometrically in price in the past couple of years as they are snapped up by mirrorless camera owners and cine companies who re-house the lens elements into barrels that are more suited to cine work.   There is much less interest in the film bodies, and subsequently there is a glut of R4 and R5 bodies at bargain-basement prices... that aren't selling because the prices for lenses are so high.  And as you've found, there's not much in the aftermarket realm that will adapt to the R bodies.   Adaptall II mounts for every other brand body mount are $15, and the Leica R versions, as you've found out, are going for $120 when you can find them.   

The real reason for buying a Leica film body is to use Leica glass.  The bodies, especially the R bodies, aren't really anything special as cameras go.  They're nice, don't get me wrong...  I have an R5 and R6.2, but a nice Nikon, Canon or Konica from the same era will accomplish the same tasks at a fraction of the costs.   Leicaflex bodies, OTOH ARE mechanical marvels and ARE something special like the mechanical M bodies.  I have a Standard, SL and SL2 as well.

My advice is to just save your money, and pick up a nice 50mm Summicron, and a 35 and 90 Elmarit (f/2.8) which are significantly less money than the 35 and 90 Summicrons but render just as nicely.   And I second the advice above to try to find a 35mm PA Curtagon f/4 for your architectural work. 

[spydrxx]

I second Hepcat's suggestion on a 35 & 90 Elmarit having owned both when I had a SL2 and R3. If you find you really like the body and system, save your money for a version II 50 Summicron. If you want a really great longer zoom, the 80-200 is a terrific lens. I compared it very favorably to the Canon nFD 80-200 L zoom. All said and done, though, a vintage Canon, Nikon, Minolta, Contax or Yashika will do just as well. Just sayin......

[Huss]

Save up your money for a 50 Summicron.  Buying a 28-70 zoom takes money away from that  - even if you are planning on selling it.  Sometimes you get much less than you expect.

[Ko.Fe.]

OK.

You have 300 budget where some R lens with bad internet wisdom fits. But Cron is only 120 of $ away.

You are double silly   

[Reddy]

agreed with some people about not to grow into the R system unless you are planning to build the SL system or even medium 4433 in the future. For fun you can exchange the R6 R6.2.

R80mm f1.4 is the lens you should take a look at and invest for the future. 

[Stuart Richardson]

This may be a complete non-starter, but if you are architect, I would skip all the small formats entirely and get a 4x5 with a 90mm, 135mm or 150mm lens, depending on whether you want to photograph a lot of tall buildings or tight interiors (in which case a 90 will take you further), or more normal perspectives (135-150).  You can find the whole kit for less than the cost of your Leica one. Film is expensive these days, but you will be able to photograph buildings and landscapes with a quality and grace which will be very difficult to replicate with 35mm. There is a learning curve, but if you are more of a meditative kind of photographer, you might be surprised how much you like it. In my experience, architects make excellent photographers because of their ability to master both technical and aesthetic considerations. This may not be a possibility because of where you live, but if you do black and white in particular, this is a manageable and rewarding pursuit.

[dkCambridgeshire]

For architectural images with a film SLR camera, a 'grid' type focusing screen will assist composition; grid screens are available for the R4S. Last time I checked, the Contax 139 was selling relatively cheaply so a replacement might be a better bet than repairing your existing. The $300 budget for a Leica R prime lens is low for tackling architecture – unless happy to take pix of parts of buildings. The better R lenses for architecture are: 

21mm f4 Super Angulon R.  Has an undeserved 'so so' reputation because photographers fail to realise that in common with other Super Angulons, it requires stopping down to at least f8 for optimum results; lens is a Schneider deign.

35mm f4 PA Curtagon R shift lens . Another Schneider design which also requires stopping down to f8 for optimum results. Shift facility is limited compared to other perspective control lenses but it's adequate and can be used handheld.  

Those who 'poo poo' the above 2 lenses may not have used them properly i.e. at the recommended apertures or are repeating their 'undeserved bad press'. I'm very happy with my examples and there are hundreds of decent pix available for viewing on Flickr. But I guess you might have to choose a fast film or use a tripod for architectural imaging with a film camera.

PC-Super Angulon R 28/2.8  Another Schneider designed Leica R perspective control (shift) lens which also requires stopping down for optimum results. A superb lens which can be used handheld. 

The only R prime standard lens likely within your $300 budget is the R 50mm Summicron – if sourced at that price – a really good example could cost more. 

"UPPING" your $300 budget would enable a wider choice.  

Two books worth sourcing which document Leica R lenses:

LEICA POCKET BOOK 8th EDITION ... Dennis Laney (updated by Brian bower and Nobby Clark)  Now scarce and commands a premium price but still worth seeking. 

Excellence in Photography APPLIED LEICA TECHNIQUE ... Günter Osterloh (for the R system; there is also a similar book for the M system) 

BW, dunk

[dkCambridgeshire]

CORRECTION to #16:  The PA Curtagin R 35/4 perspective control lens should be stopped down to f11 when in shift mode – not f8 – as per Leica Pocket book 8th Edition page 236 

 

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Star Lane Mews development Stamford Lincs UK.  Taken using Leitz R PA Curtagon R 35/4 perspective control lens at f11 – click on image to see lens' sharpness – a very capable lens with adequate 'shift' for medium size buildings. And its ergonomics are excellent for handheld use; very useful in confined spaces where not possible to use a tripod. 

My Leitz R PA Curtagon R 35/4 pc lens cost less than $300; they can sit on dealers' shelves for many months because they are not popular due to their undeserved 'so so' reputation and the fact that photographers do not know how to use them properly. Also, being relatively small (by virtue of its f4 max aperture), does not appear at first sight to be as capable a lens as e.g., the larger / faster Super Angulon R 28/2.8 PC optic.  

BW, dunk

Edited February 25, 2023 by dkCambridgeshire