SL3 Rumors

[frame-it]

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1 hour ago, BernardC said:

You can have a look here to see some (but not all) historical USA promotions:

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/tag/promotion/

There are a few M and Q promotions, but this is the SL forum and I was talking about the SL system.

They have a history of deals, and a history of iteration, but there isn't usually a correlation between the two. This doesn't mean that the SL2-generation isn't near its end, it just means that they had deals on the go last year and the year before, etc.

thanks for the info and link

[Simone_DF]

15 minutes ago, BernardC said:

You can have a look here to see some (but not all) historical USA promotions:

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/tag/promotion/

There are a few M and Q promotions, but this is the SL forum and I was talking about the SL system.

Thank you for the link! Last time the M had a discount, it was a 500€ discount for the M10 in 2019, and it was available only for one week. No sales or deals for the M10-R or the M11. A similar 450€ offer was made for the Q2. 
From 2019 to 2023, there were 0 promotions for the M, 1 for the Q2 and a whopping 8 different offers for the SL2. Basically there’s a new SL2 / SL2-S offer every 6 months, including some big discounts, like the 
That is a BIG red flag for me. 

[BernardC]

1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

From 2019 to 2023, there were 0 promotions for the M, 1 for the Q2 and a whopping 8 different offers for the SL2. Basically there’s a new SL2 / SL2-S offer every 6 months, including some big discounts, like the 
That is a BIG red flag for me.

Yes, although I can't say for sure that there were no M promotions at all. I looked at one dealer, I don't know if some promotions did not get written-up, or didn't get tagged with the same metadata. 

The M was Leica's main premium camera until the SL and TL. It has a different role now, with a predictable sales cycle and little competition. 

The SL line competes in a bigger market. As such it makes sense that Leica follows the usual rules of that market, with seasonal promotions and bundles. It isn't a red flag for me, because every other brand has similar offers. Has anybody ever purchased a Sony kit zoom on its own? Same with the old Canon 18-55. That has to be the most popular AF lens ever, but I doubt any stores stocked it separately. 

Frankly, the main reason why these lenses have a SKU is so they can say it's "a $500 value" when part of a kit! 

[thatkatmat]

I follow the used market very closely as a lot of you probably do. Demand for Leica SL mount is WAY down as well as prices. That was "my" red flag that folks had moved on from the Leica L mount (Not sure about Panasonic and Sigma, I don't follow the prices) I just know that it's really tough to sell a used Sigma SL mount lens without feeling like you're giving it away. Same with Leica. I see 24-90's for $2500. If you bought one new, that's a hard thing to swallow. 

But, after reading the responses, I'm crossing my fingers you guys are right. I love my L lenses. My 90-280 constantly blows me away. My 24-90 and 50 Lux are still, in my opinion the best in class. I even and surprisingly love my lowly non APO 35 Cron made in Portugal, light, sharp and the OOF bokeh is beautiful and I should add, built like a tank like all the APO's.

Edited October 15, 2023 by thatkatmat

[MediaFotografie]

have you seen this?

https://photorumors.com/2023/10/16/panasonic-lumix-s5ii-and-s5iix-firmware-updates-coming-on-october-24th/

some very good things are included esp. the new High Res modus; would be great to see this in SL3

Edited October 19, 2023 by MediaFotografie

[robb]

1 hour ago, MediaFotografie said:

have you seen this?

https://photorumors.com/2023/10/16/panasonic-lumix-s5ii-and-s5iix-firmware-updates-coming-on-october-24th/

some very good things are included esp. the new High Res modus; would be great to see this in SL3

Up to 8 sec exposures in multishot mode would be great.  I’ll hope it gets updated on next sl2 firmware.
Robb

[thatkatmat]

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And that's a wrap from me...With today's announcement the L mount longevity question I had is mute.

YES!!!!

21mm SUPER-APO!!!

[justinparkerphoto]

As someone who has generally not followed day to day rumors and announcement so closely in the Leica world,  does the announcement of new SL lenses after what .. years? ... bode for a new SL body being close (in 2023) or are lens announcements not usually tied to bodies like they seem to me to be often with other camera makers? 

[JohnathanLovm]

18 hours ago, MediaFotografie said:

have you seen this?

https://photorumors.com/2023/10/16/panasonic-lumix-s5ii-and-s5iix-firmware-updates-coming-on-october-24th/

some very good things are included esp. the new High Res modus; would be great to see this in SL3

The handheld multi-shot probably the most interesting to me. 

[robb]

1 hour ago, JohnathanLovm said:

The handheld multi-shot probably the most interesting to me. 

High Resolution Mode
The shutter speed at high resolution mode can now be set to max. 8-second with the long exposure noise reduction applied. Thanks to the image stabilizer, [Handheld High-Res] mode has been added to enable recording pictures with higher resolution even without using a tripod.

Read more: https://photorumors.com/2023/10/16/panasonic-lumix-s5ii-and-s5iix-firmware-updates-coming-on-october-24th/#ixzz8GdVTS96B
 

for some reason I missed the “hand held” part.  Yes.  That would be cool to see how that works and what limitations are on that with shutter speed minimums.

thanks for noting that.

Robb

[padam]

Those are two separate features. 1 sec is the minimum where handheld high-res is enabled. (And don't expect it in cameras older than an S5II.)

[BernardC]

15 hours ago, justinparkerphoto said:

does the announcement of new SL lenses after what .. years? ... bode for a new SL body being close (in 2023) or are lens announcements not usually tied to bodies like they seem to me to be often with other camera makers? 

I think that Leica releases new gear when it is ready, so a new lens doesn't mean that a new body will come along shortly.

However, the fact that Leica just released two new SL lenses (and two more earlier this year) bodes well for future developments in the SL lineup. The whole L-mount ecosystem is growing: new lenses, a new high-volume body from Panasonic, new alliance partners. I'm sure they are working very hard on the next generation of SL cameras. People keep talking about Q1 2024, but I don't know if that's just a guess, or if it's inside information.

 

By the way, here's my completely made-up SL3 rumour of the day: the next camera will be called the R3! Historically, Leica has always replaced SL2 models with an R3.

[ynp]

On 10/19/2023 at 9:24 AM, robb said:

Up to 8 sec exposures in multishot mode would be great.  I’ll hope it gets updated on next sl2 firmware.
Robb

Thanks. Is there a reliable tethering solution to use the multi shot mode in the studio? My C1 doesn’t support the LUMIX. The SL tethering is bulletproof from October. 

[robb]

1 hour ago, ynp said:

Thanks. Is there a reliable tethering solution to use the multi shot mode in the studio? My C1 doesn’t support the LUMIX. The SL tethering is bulletproof from October. 

I don’t tether, sorry.

Robb

[helged]

On 10/12/2023 at 7:28 PM, trickness said:

I don't think anyone here should doubt there will be an SL3. I certainly don't!

Same here.

We may think/argue that Leica is slow, but new L-products are coming, with four (I believe) Leica L-mount lenses released this year. And Leica is profitable, https://leicarumors.com/2023/10/20/dr-andreas-kaufmann-2023-is-the-best-year-in-leicas-history.aspx/. 

[Simone_DF]

24 minutes ago, helged said:

Same here.

We may think/argue that Leica is slow, but new L-products are coming, with four (I believe) Leica L-mount lenses released this year. And Leica is profitable, https://leicarumors.com/2023/10/20/dr-andreas-kaufmann-2023-is-the-best-year-in-leicas-history.aspx/. 

1 original lens announced 5 years ago and 3 rebadges. Not a great track record, imho. But I’m happy that the 21mm is here. 
Now the question is, will there be more Leica designed lenses, or are we stuck with these sad rebadges for the foreseeable future?

Profitability is great news, but I suspect that’s because of the M and the Q. Don’t forget that despite it’s the best year for Leica, the CL is no more. 

[frame-it]

13 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Don’t forget that despite it’s the best year for Leica, the CL is no more. 

because they discontinued the CL in 2022, any 2023 sales were/are probably old stock leftovers....so that means the CL ate into their resources a LOT?

[helged]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Don’t forget that despite it’s the best year for Leica, the CL is no more. 

Exactly: The volume - and profit - of Leica APS-C products were (too) low, so the company decided to focus on FF and, possibly, a mirrorless medium format system (S4; time will tell). The L-mount consortium includes several recognised companies, strengthening and widening the L-mount system. Clearly, Leica-versions of eg Sigma lenses cannot keep the company aloft in isolation; but it is good for customers that there are lenses available at a more reasonable cost than the APO and top-zoom line of lenses. Also remember that Leica is a small company, that the products are mostly manufactured in Europe, and that there is a lot of manual work in the making process. Consequently, there is a typical 3+ year cycle between the different generations of the SL-bodies. Which is, for many, just fine.

https://amateurphotographer.com/latest/photo-news/leica-discontinues-cl-tl2-cameras-to-focus-on-full-frame/#:~:text=In comparison%2C the segment of,strategically with these market changes. "In recent years, the overall photography market has seen a decline in sales of compact and system cameras with smaller sensors. In comparison, the segment of cameras with full-frame sensors is developing particularly positively and shows continuing market growth. This development has prompted Leica Camera AG to discontinue its CL/TL2-System cameras, in order to realign itself strategically with these market changes. Going forward, the company will primarily focus its attention on the production of full-frame cameras."

[BernardC]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Profitability is great news, but I suspect that’s because of the M and the Q. Don’t forget that despite it’s the best year for Leica, the CL is no more. 

A significant factor in Leica's newfound profitability is a more realistic approach. The CL and TL haven't contributed to the bottom line for years. The point-and-shoot line is also disappearing, because nobody buys that type of camera any more.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Stuart Richardson]

46 minutes ago, BernardC said:

A significant factor in Leica's newfound profitability is a more realistic approach. The CL and TL haven't contributed to the bottom line for years. The point-and-shoot line is also disappearing, because nobody buys that type of camera any more.

I would say that with a small caveat. No one buys consumer versions, as that market has almost completely left for phones. The Ricoh GR sells like hotcakes, as does the X100 series. But those are geared towards pros/enthusiasts. Leica's mistake in my mind is that they have always marketed their compact cameras (including the CL/TL) to a more general audience or as a step-up camera to their larger cameras. For all their talk, the CL/TL line was not as well built or as professional in features and lenses as their SL line. I know that CL lovers might take exception to that, but having shot a T and 23mm, I can tell you that the 23mm is nowhere near as good as any of the full size SL lenses or M lenses that I have used. The camera itself was well made, but the interface and touch screen were slow and poorly implemented in comparison to Leica's pro cameras. I think the CL was a great leap in the right direction, but it was let down by the available lenses and lack of features in comparison to the full size cameras or its peers (look at Fuji's lens range and technologies compared to the CL...). No stabilization, no compact, fast and sharp primes etc...things Leica should be great at, but they simply did not provide for the CL. I think that if instead of the T/CL, they made a camera with the exact form factor and size of the CM, only with a APS-C sensor, they would have tapped into more of a market...something to take on the X100 and GR with a more premium build/design. But anyway, that's just what I would be interested in. Perhaps I am totally off.