SL3 Rumors

[Qwertynm]

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Am 12.10.2023 um 17:04 schrieb hdmesa:

Z and L mount are well on their way to surpass RF.

Do you have a source for that? Last time I checked Canon was dominating the MILC market by quite a large margin. If I remember correctly Canon has double the market share of Sony and four times that of Nikon. Not opening up the Rf mount does not seem to hurt them. I‘d prefer they would allow third parties to join in. More competition is always better for the consumer but usually worse for the shareholders. Lenses tend to have larger margins than camera bodies it seems. 

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, Qwertynm said:

Do you have a source for that? Last time I checked Canon was dominating the MILC market by quite a large margin. If I remember correctly Canon has double the market share of Sony and four times that of Nikon. Not opening up the Rf mount does not seem to hurt them. I‘d prefer they would allow third parties to join in. More competition is always better for the consumer but usually worse for the shareholders. Lenses tend to have larger margins than camera bodies it seems. 

I reworded my statement below to make what I was trying to say clearer. Without third party options, there will always be fewer native mount RF autofocus lenses versus the competition. Canon can't rely on adapted EF lenses forever to balance the equation.

The number of available Z and L mount lens offerings are well on their way to surpassing native RF (if they haven't already).

[Kim Dahl]

I think you're right about that. But for example, sigma (and other triple mounts) will not go bankrupt, if L-Mount was not included in their offer, I think

L-mount is only a  small part of their offer. There would be other options for them. There may also be Panasonic left. So the concern is real enough with Leica  

But having said that, I think it will work. But their new SL venture must be a success.
Like all other camera manufacturers, Leica does not have several camera models to play with, since Cl is giving up. Only a low MB model and a high MP.

[LocalHero1953]

We risk looking at the L-mount from Leica-centric eyes. With four independent L-mount camera makers and more than that number of L-mount lens makers* the future looks secure enough.

 

* More than I expected - L-mount is seen as a commercially viable option for the new independent lens makes from China etc. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[BernardC]

14 hours ago, hdmesa said:

The number of available Z and L mount lens offerings are well on their way to surpassing native RF (if they haven't already).

That's the current state at B&H. 

Here are this morning's counts for full frame mirrorless lenses that are in-stock:

• RF: 79
• L: 101
• Z: 125
• E: 313

[frame-it]

14 hours ago, hdmesa said:

The number of available Z and L mount lens offerings are well on their way to surpassing native RF (if they haven't already).

very true, but hey, if one really knows how to shoot one doesn't need a 15 shot Glock, even a 5 shot revolver will do

if the RF lenses have a decent enough overlap in mm they can afford to bring out new lenses slowly

 

 

[hdmesa]

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1 hour ago, BernardC said:

That's the current state at B&H. 

Here are this morning's counts for full frame mirrorless lenses that are in-stock:

• RF: 79
• L: 101
• Z: 125
• E: 313

Wow, I knew there were a lot of options for E-mount lenses, but I didn't realize it was almost 4x as many as are available for RF. 

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, frame-it said:

very true, but hey, if one really knows how to shoot one doesn't need a 15 shot Glock, even a 5 shot revolver will do

if the RF lenses have a decent enough overlap in mm they can afford to bring out new lenses slowly

 

 

True, but it would be like only having access to expensive S&W Performance Center revolvers when a basic Ruger would do

[Planetwide]

The number of lenses available is not always an indicator of the functionality of the mount. The L-Mount has significant overlap of focal lengths. For example: 24-70mm F2.8 is offered by Leica, Panasonic, and Sigma. 50mm F1.4 is offered by Leica, Panasonic, and Sigma. 35mm F1.8/2.0 is offered by Panasonic, Leica and Sigma. The same can be said for 50mm F1.8/2.0 and 75mm-85mm etc... RF has some very interesting zooms, as does Nikon and Sony. Leica also has some great zooms as well, 24-90mm & 90-280mm etc...

L mount needs more F1.4 lenses and more Leica designed lenses.

IMHO

[frame-it]

seems that deal is still on, just got this:

6종의 다양한 렌즈와 바디 구성으로 라이카 SL 2 키트를 위한 190만원 상당의 '글로벌 바우처 프로모션' 이 진행 중입니다.

>> A 'global voucher promotion' worth 1.9 million won is underway for the Silver Leica SL 2 kit with 6 different lens and body configurations.

approx 1600$

 

[padam]

2 hours ago, Planetwide said:

The number of lenses available is not always an indicator of the functionality of the mount. The L-Mount has significant overlap of focal lengths.

So true, we can also subtract all Sigma (IRIX and others) lenses derived from EF-mount. Those are just stop gappers going away, not many reasons for them to exist, losing all flexibility of the EF-mount.

As far as the SL3 goes, first they need to sell the silver SL2, then there will be another limited edition SL2-S as well. Only then it makes sense to release it.

So even if at this point I don't see how it will be a revolutionary upgrade (especially against SL2-S regarding video), it could still take a while.

[frame-it]

3 minutes ago, padam said:

first they need to sell the silver SL2,

the way they're trying to unload the SL2/x bodies makes me think the SL3 will have a very different body, maybe a different grip, slightly thicker body and a bit curvy

[padam]

1 hour ago, frame-it said:

the way they're trying to unload the SL2/x bodies makes me think the SL3 will have a very different body, maybe a different grip, slightly thicker body and a bit curvy

Does not make sense from a business point of view. Like with the Q3, they want to price it similar to the previous one to make sure that it keeps selling. That is also why they give discounts, used prices are considerably lower, does make much sense to buy new to be honest. They don't need any more space than what they already have for new hardware. Add in a tilt-screen, maybe a third dial at the front, but otherwise they want to appeal to customers who like the design. (looks good, well-sealed, why change it)

Of course if they are aiming for a five-figure price tag with a stacked sensor, that would be intriguing, but I don't see it happening, the lenses are made for increased MP count. Would not make sense for Sony to have an A1 alternative either, so only their 61MP and 24MP sensors are available for L-mount.

I also wonder what they are planning with medium format mirrorless, could be much more of an all-round system than it was before with lenses much smaller than S-mount.
Seeing how a GFX 100 II is starting to become comparable to high-res FF with regards to speed, responsiveness, video (I mean, similar sensor with a bigger surface area providing similar features), what will happen with the SL system's appeal for users who bought in for premium glass in the first place.
Well, nothing, just going to be devalued a bit further. It is the reason why Fuji skipped FF and others do not have MF, although Leica has versatility with M-mount - so that they can still make a smaller SL if they want to - or need to...

Edited October 15, 2023 by padam

[frame-it]

2 hours ago, padam said:

Does not make sense from a business point of view. Like with the Q3, they want to price it similar to the previous one to make sure that it keeps selling. That is also why they give discounts, used prices are considerably lower, does make much sense to buy new to be honest. They don't need any more space than what they already have for new hardware. Add in a tilt-screen, maybe a third dial at the front, but otherwise they want to appeal to customers who like the design. (looks good, well-sealed, why change it)
 

The M11 sensor + tilt screen = body should be a bit thicker

then why dump as many SL2 bodies as possible? perhaps the SL2 chassis cant be used for the SL3? after all the huge discounts are with the cheaper J-summicrons

Edited October 15, 2023 by frame-it

[TeleElmar135mm]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb frame-it:

the way they're trying to unload the SL2/x bodies makes me think the SL3 will have a very different body, maybe a different grip, slightly thicker body and a bit curvy

The basic form will be the same, but not the details. And a SL-2 has also not the same body than a 601. 

"a bit curvy" (like MM?  ) sounds not bad for some corners.

[Simone_DF]

I still think there will be a smaller SL camera alongside the SL3, like there is the S1 and S5 in Panasonic land. 
Leica still need to catch the CL owners. 
Besides, it’s no secret that Panasonic’s best selling camera is the S5, and that’s not just because of the price. 

[BernardC]

6 hours ago, frame-it said:

the way they're trying to unload the SL2/x bodies makes me think the SL3 will have a very different body, maybe a different grip, slightly thicker body and a bit curvy

Leica always has a special offer on the go. Every brand does. I wouldn't read too much into it, they just want to turn a $7000 sale into a $9000 sale by (probably $10000 after you buy extra batteries, cards, etc.). They do this by making you think that you are "saving money."

The current deal isn't much better or worse than last quarter's deal, or last year's deal, or the one from eleven quarters ago. They will release a new SL body at some point, so the prediction of "they're having a sale so the camera is kaput!" will eventually come true, but only by coincidence.

By the way, I see deals on RF bodies right now, but not on EOS. Should I infer that Canon is going back to EOS?

[frame-it]

9 minutes ago, BernardC said:

I see deals on RF bodies right now, but not on EOS. Should I infer that Canon is going back to EOS?

nope, but the SL2 was released in 2019 Nov...and Leica does have a history of deals and special editions before moving onto the next iteration

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Simone_DF]

18 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Leica always has a special offer on the go.

What offer have you ever seen for the M or the Q?

[BernardC]

1 minute ago, Simone_DF said:

What offer have you ever seen for the M or the Q?

You can have a look here to see some (but not all) historical USA promotions:

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/tag/promotion/

There are a few M and Q promotions, but this is the SL forum and I was talking about the SL system.

15 minutes ago, frame-it said:

Leica does have a history of deals and special editions before moving onto the next iteration

They have a history of deals, and a history of iteration, but there isn't usually a correlation between the two. This doesn't mean that the SL2-generation isn't near its end, it just means that they had deals on the go last year and the year before, etc.