SL3 Rumors

[trickness]

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45 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

The M11 freeze thread is there for light relief …

There was a time when the forum was informative and entertaining.  Looking back to 2010, when I got my M9 and was new to this forum, so many of the voices that were worth listening to have faded away.

Another treasured member here responded to my recent despair over having two cameras and two lenses at Wetzlar and my disillusionment with where the M system is heading with the M11.  He said, hold out something might happen, and wait for the SL3.  Well, I’m not so sure.  I have all my L mount gear on the dining table for photographing and selling.  Why am I not waiting?

Well, how does this sound:

• IBIS, giving 7 stops of stabilisation
• built in 1TB of memory, obviating the need for card storage
• USB-C charging and transfer
• WiFi
• BSI sensor
• PDAF
• Base ISO of 64
• 15 stops of dynamic range
• 16-bit colour depth

All in the best body with a user friendly UI and menu system which matches or betters Leica’s.  What’s not to like?  

I’m keeping my M system as I like what I have, and the future will do what the future does.

Just my personal experience:

I recently dropped a fairly large chunk of change to take personal instruction with a noted photographer. I had sold a 35 SL APO which I wasn't using & almost bought a backup SL2-S with the cash, but I was curious if mentorship would make more of a difference in my photography than buying another piece of gear. I do not find my SL2 or Q2M to be limiting in any way, and (again) personally feel that the endless merry go round of upgrading and comparing competitive cameras and focusing on the perceived "weakness" of these tools was a needless distraction. What I needed to do was look critically at my work, with help from someone with a more informed perspective, to understand better what I was doing/not doing.

My experience was that I'm MUCH more conscious now about what I'm doing during every step of the creative process; from planning before I go out, framing, proportion, composition, editing, printing and living with my pictures - for my work, this was a far better "upgrade" than anything Wetzlar is likely to release, ever. I'm not so foolish as to think I'm suddenly taking nothing but great images, but I'm thinking about the pictures in a different and (to me anyway) improved manner. 

It was interesting to see so many M10 variants for sale upon announcement of the M11, as though the M10 had a disease, followed by endless complaints of freezing, bricking, etc for the M11. For ME (and I'm not shooting basketball games) I understand that the greatest limitation I face as a photographer is MYSELF. Internal memory, BSI sensor, 100 megapixels, USB-C, PDAF....none of these things really are going to help me make better pictures.

Nice to have these features? Sure.

Necessary? I guess that depends on your priorities.

It's a bit odd to me that some of the greatest photographs of all time were shot on Leica, yet creative discussion takes a backseat to endless ponderings of a technical nature on this forum. I wish it were the inverse - I expect to be pummeled for even mentioning it. Such as it is.

M10, M9, M11, SL3, Q3...put the picture on the wall and all anyone cares about is if it's a good image (which seems undefinable but is somehow always obvious). 

Time and technology marches on, but I love my SL2. Period. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by trickness

[frankchn]

36 minutes ago, trickness said:

It's a bit odd to me that some of the greatest photographs of all time were shot on Leica, yet creative discussion takes a backseat to endless ponderings of a technical nature on this forum. I wish it were the inverse - I expect to be pummeled for even mentioning it. Such as it is.

To be fair, this sub-forum is about the cameras and lenses themselves, and what's worse, this thread is about a camera that doesn't exist yet. So the only thing we can do is idle speculation. I think there are a lot more productive discussions about the art of photography and image making on the Photo sub-forums.

Edited August 24, 2023 by frankchn

[trickness]

1 minute ago, frankchn said:

To be fair, this sub-forum is about the cameras and lenses themselves, and what's worse, this thread is about a camera that doesn't exist yet. So the only thing we can do is idle speculation. I think there are a lot more productive discussions about the art of photography and image making on the Photo sub-forums.

Oh I know what the thread's about. I'm the OP 😂

[robb]

Today I visited the Leica Gallery in Los Angeles.  I went specifically to see the artists on display and look at the printing and mounting and framing of the work while I was shooting a project in the area.

I had a great time.  One current photographer working in Hollywood - Eddy Chen - showed prints from shooting film with an M7 and MP.  very Nice moments of behind the scenes on the HBO show “the idol”.

BUT

It impressed me how happy I am with todays tech, digital capture, and the SL APO summicrons that I enjoy today so much and new advancements regularly coming out.  

I have no desire to go back to shooting film.  Last roll for me was around 2001.  The grain of Mr Chen‘s color 800 speed film printed at anything over 11x14 or so was just not very enjoyable to me to see the image through this and although I enjoyed the images, the grain kind of took it down a notch.  I think his images would have been even more terrific with an SL2 or M11 with modern apo’s.  

Would I have had that reaction in the 1980’s?  No… but today after using and enjoying what I work with, it just raises my own bar to how I view printed images.  

so I welcome new gear and tech moving forward.  I can appreciate great images and see through tech limitations.  I’m sure we all love going to the galleries.  But bring on the SL3.  I may stay locked in time with my sl2’s so someone 40 years from now can have a similar reaction to why is he still shooting with the SL2 / apo limitations… 

I’ll keep enjoying viewing others work old and new, but I’m very thankful to have found what gets me up every day excited about what I can create with my cameras and lenses.  Fantastic time we are living in with these advancements at Leica.

Robb
 

 

[IkarusJohn]

2 hours ago, trickness said:

Just my personal experience:

I recently dropped a fairly large chunk of change to take personal instruction with a noted photographer. I had sold a 35 SL APO which I wasn't using & almost bought a backup SL2-S with the cash, but I was curious if mentorship would make more of a difference in my photography than buying another piece of gear. I do not find my SL2 or Q2M to be limiting in any way, and (again) personally feel that the endless merry go round of upgrading and comparing competitive cameras and focusing on the perceived "weakness" of these tools was a needless distraction. What I needed to do was look critically at my work, with help from someone with a more informed perspective, to understand better what I was doing/not doing.

My experience was that I'm MUCH more conscious now about what I'm doing during every step of the creative process; from planning before I go out, framing, proportion, composition, editing, printing and living with my pictures - for my work, this was a far better "upgrade" than anything Wetzlar is likely to release, ever. I'm not so foolish as to think I'm suddenly taking nothing but great images, but I'm thinking about the pictures in a different and (to me anyway) improved manner. 

It was interesting to see so many M10 variants for sale upon announcement of the M11, as though the M10 had a disease, followed by endless complaints of freezing, bricking, etc for the M11. For ME (and I'm not shooting basketball games) I understand that the greatest limitation I face as a photographer is MYSELF. Internal memory, BSI sensor, 100 megapixels, USB-C, PDAF....none of these things really are going to help me make better pictures.

Nice to have these features? Sure.

Necessary? I guess that depends on your priorities.

It's a bit odd to me that some of the greatest photographs of all time were shot on Leica, yet creative discussion takes a backseat to endless ponderings of a technical nature on this forum. I wish it were the inverse - I expect to be pummeled for even mentioning it. Such as it is.

M10, M9, M11, SL3, Q3...put the picture on the wall and all anyone cares about is if it's a good image (which seems undefinable but is somehow always obvious). 

Time and technology marches on, but I love my SL2. Period. 

 

I’m not an upgrader either.  My current rationalisation will bring me back to my SWC & M-A for film, Monochrom and M10-D with M lenses 21mm to 75mm.  Losing my L mount gear for an X2D & one lens (famous last words, I guess).  There’s a simplicity in a single camera and single lens for travel and landscape.  Maybe this won’t work, but I’m giving it a go.  

As for dealer network, renting, repairs etc, I don’t live in the US.  Enough said.

[didier]

9 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

I’m keeping my M system as I like what I have, and the future will do what the future does.

+1

The M system is what makes me looking forward to taking my camera with me and having great satisfaction using it. And I think that when I enjoy my gear I am better at what I do (as an amateur)

I recently had the great pleasure to meet Stefan Daniel and we spoke about the M. I told him I didn’t see anything more than my M10M, except maybe a screenless body

For Leica, it is important their customers go on upgrading, but I will above all enrich my Lens stable (already so many lenses, but what a joy…) and be very careful at buying any new body. I don’t think I need anything more in B&W. What I currently miss, is a digital color M body since I sold my M(240).

 

It still have my SL(601) and use it a little, with pleasure, but not giving me the same Joy as the M.

Yes, the future will do what the future does, and I will take a look at the SL3, with no hurry, and keeping in mind my roots are in the M system  

 

[Jeff S]

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11 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

As for dealer network, renting, repairs etc, I don’t live in the US.  Enough said.

I didn’t mention rentals, as that’s not a problem here, for the X2D or even for the new lenses. It’s the buying (and sale/trade) and servicing, and long term viability, that troubles.
 

You asked what’s not to like, so  that’s my view, not anyone else’s.

Jeff

Edited August 25, 2023 by Jeff S

[Jon Warwick]

14 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

My current rationalisation will bring me back to my SWC & M-A for film, Monochrom and M10-D with M lenses 21mm to 75mm.  Losing my L mount gear for an X2D & one lens (famous last words, I guess).  There’s a simplicity in a single camera and single lens for travel and landscape.  Maybe this won’t work, but I’m giving it a go.  

 

Kind of where I landed too, albeit via an M7 for film, via an M11 for being light and small for travel (I plan to pair it with a Monochrom when used M11Ms start showing up) and I sold my L Mount a while back for medium format color (in my case via a GFX100S).

In hindsight, and for my use case, it wasn’t clear where the SL2 and SL 50mm Summicron excelled for my needs - ie, that combo is clearly heavier & bigger than an M11 and my 50 APO Lanthar (and I prefer the M11’s image quality too).

Autofocus and weather sealing are benefits I didn’t really need in hindsight at the expense of such size & weight, so - for full frame - it’s clear now that I should have stayed with the M system. I highly doubt I will look at the SL3 as a result.

You may ask why the GFX100S? - well, i purposefully use it more as a replacement of my 5x4 when I really need 100mp resolution for prints to 50-60” (landscapes). Its replacement of the 5x4 will become all the more the case when Fuji releases its wide 30mm T/S lens and I can emulate front rise (for architecture) too. In that sense, I’m able to cleanly compartmentalise when I decide to use the GFX vs when I use the M system.

As an aside, it will be interesting what Fuji might imminently have up its sleeve for the next GFX ….. one source discussing it here - https://www.fujirumors.com/category/rumors/

 

[jdlaing]

17 hours ago, trickness said:

Oh I know what the thread's about. I'm the OP 😂

As the OP you started this thread.

As the OP you, as well as anyone, have no control over the meanderings and hijacking of the thread.

😃😃😃

[IkarusJohn]

5 hours ago, Jeff S said:

I didn’t mention rentals, as that’s not a problem here, for the X2D or even for the new lenses. It’s the buying (and sale/trade) and servicing, and long term viability, that troubles.
 

You asked what’s not to like, so  that’s my view, not anyone else’s.

Jeff

I don’t print much either 😂

[Olaf_ZG]

It’s so easy to get carried away with the latest tech, but often It won’t bring you much unless you make the extra mile to use the latest tech to the much.

I am still finalizing my ideal part of gear. For MF, I went back to film, never expected this as I swore of film many years ago. So here I am, with 60 years old tech, replacing my digital MF. Key is though, that with MF I am not a heavy shooter. So film is viable.

The m is for monochrom. The original mm had buffer limitations, so the m10m solved this, and with some lenses, 24, 50, 75 or 90, my set will be complete.

The SL is for documenting causal life, two zooms. The APO is on sale.

a great set, the only limitation is me, so, I appreciate what @tricknessdid: investing in himself. We are most probably the weakest part of the chain…

[Jeff S]

37 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

I don’t print much either 😂

Too busy posting about gear. 😉

Jeff

 

[trickness]

3 hours ago, jdlaing said:

As the OP you started this thread.

As the OP you, as well as anyone, have no control over the meanderings and hijacking of the thread.

😃😃😃

Thanks for the blinding glimpse of the glaringly obvious, Tex 🤠

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

Too busy posting about gear. 😉

Jeff

 

No, currently housebound, with my foot up, following removal of a metastatic melanoma.

[Jeff S]

3 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

No, currently housebound, with my foot up, following removal of a metastatic melanoma.

Sorry to hear. 
 

Jeff

[hansvons]

20 hours ago, robb said:

I had a great time.  One current photographer working in Hollywood - Eddy Chen - showed prints from shooting film with an M7 and MP.  very Nice moments of behind the scenes on the HBO show “the idol”.

BUT

It impressed me how happy I am with todays tech, digital capture, and the SL APO summicrons that I enjoy today so much and new advancements regularly coming out.

The great thing is that we‘re all different, which makes life less boring. 
I actually degraded my gear. I sold the 24-90, got an M4-P and an M6, added a 35mm Summicron and a Nokton of the same focal length and use the SL2-S mostly for digitizing. I now shoot again on Kodak’s cine stock I stopped using in 2010 because digital tool over, and enjoying it very much. And I shoot B/W on its real medium. 

My photography improved visibly because I‘m more focused, less a gatherer, more a hunter. Even my clients appreciate that a lot, to an extent that shooting film is now a USP. 

Am I‘m still interested in an SL3? Only if it has vastly improved on the video side. For me that’s an 24 MP sensor, 6K full frame ProRes 10 bit internal recording, better Raw. Can’t care less about AF, but we‘re all different. 
 

But if I were after the perfect digital image, I’d certainly go the SL APO route. These lenses are second to none in terms of perfection with soul. But the sensor behind them isn’t the defining part. It‘s the lenses and the postproduction, and, of course, the talent behind.  

[algrove]

Too bad when the OP ruins his own thread. 

 

There will not be an SL3.

[trickness]

2 hours ago, algrove said:

Too bad when the OP ruins his own thread. 

 

There will not be an SL3.

Sounds like someone needs a puppy!

[frame-it]

On 8/26/2023 at 6:45 AM, hansvons said:

6K full frame ProRes 10 bit internal recording, better Raw.

requires a more powerful processor [than the current one], processor news seems to give a slight hint about the future of certain cameras, Leica has a bad habit of under-powering their cameras

Edited August 30, 2023 by frame-it

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[frankchn]

23 hours ago, frame-it said:

requires a more powerful processor [than the current one], processor news seems to give a slight hint about the future of certain cameras, Leica has a bad habit of under-powering their cameras

It will be most likely be the Maestro IV processor off the Q3 (and also the sensor for that matter). So it will probably be able to do 8Kp30 10-bit 4:2:0 in some form.