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F stop Metadata


ckchen72

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Sorry this is a very basic question. My lens is coded, and the lens detection is on. I open up the image in PS or Bridge, and the ISO is displayed as well as maximum aperture, but the actual fstop I used is not displayed. Is there a way to display this?

 

Thanks!

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Guest tummydoc

There are some who have asserted they are privvy to un-published information that the blue 'eye' on the front of the M8 measures ambient light and compares it to the TTL meter to make a guess as to the working aperture. Some even claim that they've documented it in test shots. Even if one stretches one's faith in the veracity of certain individuals to accept that this is indeed a fact, the question remains as to whether the parallax between the blue 'eye' and the lens isn't such a significant impediment to accuracy as to make such extrapolation virtually useless. Perhaps the fact that estimated aperture isn't displayed in EXIF is a clue to the resolution of these questions ;)

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Yep, I remember an old thread on this possible role of the "blu eye" : my thought is that the f stop could really be computed comparing "blu eye" and TTL measurements, but Leica decided not to implement the function in their Software, for in too many instances (strange light sources, dominant hues, tele lenses...) you should obtain uncorrect results... lacking mech or electronic info directly from diaphragm actuator to body, the "computed" workaround is anyway an untrustable method. Sometimes it would be interesting to have the capabilty to record f stops... I don't remember if some shots of mine were wide open or only next to... but I think we M8 users can live without it, even if it shouldn't be difficult for Leica to add a SW function that allows you to simply "write manually" the info in the EXIF file after the shot.

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There are some who have asserted they are privvy to un-published information that the blue 'eye' on the front of the M8 measures ambient light and compares it to the TTL meter to make a guess as to the working aperture. Some even claim that they've documented it in test shots. Even if one stretches one's faith in the veracity of certain individuals to accept that this is indeed a fact, the question remains as to whether the parallax between the blue 'eye' and the lens isn't such a significant impediment to accuracy as to make such extrapolation virtually useless. Perhaps the fact that estimated aperture isn't displayed in EXIF is a clue to the resolution of these questions ;)

 

I wouldn't read too closely into any of this. Contax did use precisely that system to record aperture data in the G series. I always love the assumptions that run through these threads that if Leica doesn't do it, it's invalid/worthless/unnecessary.

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I'm one of the ones making the assertions. It takes some reverse engineering of the private fields in the EXIF to see the estimated aperture. Similarly the unique ID (the number of shutter presses, essentially) is not easily visible although some programs do display it. The estimated aperture can be fooled at very long and very short focal lengths and uneven lighting, but it is usually pretty accurate. If there is enough demand, I am sure that a tool could be created to make both pieces of information more widely available. But it would be still up to the individual to update his EXIF information, and I wouldn't do that to my RAW files.

 

scott

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I'm one of the ones making the assertions. It takes some reverse engineering of the private fields in the EXIF to see the estimated aperture. Similarly the unique ID (the number of shutter presses, essentially) is not easily visible although some programs do display it. The estimated aperture can be fooled at very long and very short focal lengths and uneven lighting, but it is usually pretty accurate. If there is enough demand, I am sure that a tool could be created to make both pieces of information more widely available. But it would be still up to the individual to update his EXIF information, and I wouldn't do that to my RAW files.

 

scott

 

Scott,

 

As I've communicated privately, I'd be happy to include a makerdata decoding piece into CornerFix.............

 

Sandy

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Scott,

 

As I've communicated privately, I'd be happy to include a makerdata decoding piece into CornerFix.............

 

Sandy

 

Sandy, this is an excellent idea. I, for one, would be delighted to have the estimated aperture value (if it exists) written to the Exif aperture tag. Even if there is a possibility that it is incorrect, it is much better to have an estimated value than no value at all. Given that CornerFix creates a new DNG file for output, this feature poses no danger to the original file.

 

What can we do to persuade you to do this? :)

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Sandy, this is an excellent idea. I, for one, would be delighted to have the estimated aperture value (if it exists) written to the Exif aperture tag. Even if there is a possibility that it is incorrect, it is much better to have an estimated value than no value at all. Given that CornerFix creates a new DNG file for output, this feature poses no danger to the original file.

 

What can we do to persuade you to do this? :)

 

Its really up to the folks that have decoded the maker data to release their findings on how Leica encodes the data; once they do that I'll incorporate a decoder into CornerFix.

 

Discussions in this regard are ongoing.....

 

Sandy

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Hello Sandy!

Its really up to the folks that have decoded the maker data to release their findings on how Leica encodes the data; once they do that I'll incorporate a decoder into CornerFix.

 

Sharing my knowledge...

 

Exif-IFD : 0000:02FC, Entries : 20

1 829A ExposureTime uRatio 1 * 0000:08BC 16666/1000000 [1/60]

2 8822 ExposureProgram uShort 1 v 0000:0003 3

3 8827 ISOSpeedRatings uShort 1 v 0000:04E2 1250

4 9000 Exifversion Undef 4 v 3032:3230 30 32 32 30

5 9004 DateTimeOriginal ASCIIZ 20 * 0000:08C4 2007:10:23 07:54:38

6 9201 ShutterSpeedValue sRatio 1 * 0000:08EC 393216/65536 [6.00]

7 9204 ExposureBias sRatio 1 * 0000:08F4 0/65536

8 9205 MaxAperture uRatio 1 * 0000:08FC 196608/65536

9 9207 MeteringMode uShort 1 v 0000:0002 2 Center

10 9208 LightSource uShort 1 v 0000:0000 0 Unidentified

11 9209 Flash uShort 1 v 0000:0018 24

12 920A FocalLength uRatio 1 * 0000:0904 28000/1000

13 927C MakerNote Undef 220 * 0000:090C 4C 45 49 43 41 00 00 00 0F 00

MakerNote: 0000:090C, Entries : 15

1 0302 0004 0001 0000 0004 0000

2 0303 0004 0001 0000 55e4 002f Serial number 3102180

3 0304 0003 0001 0000 0001 0000 LightSource Daylight

4 0310 0004 0001 0000 0071 0000 2.8/28; 11606

5 0311 000a 0001 0000 00c4 0000 196

6 0312 000a 0001 0000 00cc 0000 204

7 0313 000a 0001 0000 00d4 0000 212

8 0320 0009 0001 0000 0010 0000

9 0321 0004 0001 0000 0000 0000 no auto WB

10 0325 0004 0001 0000 0001 0000

11 0330 0004 0001 0000 0000 0000

12 0331 0004 0001 0000 0001 0000 UV/IR active

13 0332 0004 0001 0000 0000 0000

14 0333 0004 0001 0000 0000 0000

15 0340 0004 0001 0000 0547 0000

00 00

00 00 16 00 00 40 02 00

00 00 01 00 00 76 02 00

00 00 01 00 00 00 05 00

00 00 01 00

ExposureRange -3 - 17EV, LWt 6.00

ExtEV 2.25 IntEV 2.46 FlashEV 5.00 Ext-Int -0.21

MakerNote end

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There are some who have asserted they are privvy to un-published information that the blue 'eye' on the front of the M8 measures ambient light and compares it to the TTL meter to make a guess as to the working aperture.

 

Again, that information was published by me several months ago.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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Guest tummydoc
Again, that information was published by me several months ago.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Sorry I was un-clear. I meant un-published by Leica.

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Sean,

 

Where did you publish it? Is it on your site or in this forum?

 

On the site. I think its in the "M8 Updates" article but it might be a different one. I'm not aware of Leica themselves publishing this, I had to seek it out.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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Hello Sandy!

 

Sharing my knowledge...

 

Thanks! I've hacked /from/ the DNG to assist my scripts and posted earlier about the image orientation fouling customer's view pleasure with Adobe products... what tools are you using to suss EXIF data?

Exif-IFD : 0000:02FC, Entries : 20

[snipped]

MakerNote: 0000:090C, Entries : 15

1 0302 0004 0001 0000 0004 0000

2 0303 0004 0001 0000 55e4 002f Serial number 3102180

3 0304 0003 0001 0000 0001 0000 LightSource Daylight

4 0310 0004 0001 0000 0071 0000 2.8/28; 11606

 

...hmmm, my EXIF reading gives a decimal number at your entry 4 (0x0310)

How'd you derive the lens ID?

5 0311 000a 0001 0000 00c4 0000 196

6 0312 000a 0001 0000 00cc 0000 204

7 0313 000a 0001 0000 00d4 0000 212

8 0320 0009 0001 0000 0010 0000

9 0321 0004 0001 0000 0000 0000 no auto WB

 

Again, I get a number resembling the Kelvin temp for your item 9 (0x0321), even when using preset, or manual WB settings... do you get words, or a number?

10 0325 0004 0001 0000 0001 0000

 

My findings are that your item 10 (0x0325) is a boolean for whether IR/UV is active, and the camera CAN determine the lens+correction algo, and...

11 0330 0004 0001 0000 0000 0000

12 0331 0004 0001 0000 0001 0000 UV/IR active

 

...your item 12 (0x0331) also seems a boolean, which in my earliest DNGs(12 Nov 06) was always "0", yet now is always "1", even if I disable lens detection.

13 0332 0004 0001 0000 0000 0000

14 0333 0004 0001 0000 0000 0000

15 0340 0004 0001 0000 0547 0000

 

Your item 15 (0x0340) would appear to be the equivalent to the "ImageUniqueID"

00 00

00 00 16 00 00 40 02 00

00 00 01 00 00 76 02 00

00 00 01 00 00 00 05 00

00 00 01 00

ExposureRange -3 - 17EV, LWt 6.00

ExtEV 2.25 IntEV 2.46 FlashEV 5.00 Ext-Int -0.21

MakerNote end

 

While I suspect there might be some data in the file to determine the aperture, I haven't been able to find it.

 

The most interesting to me, lately, is stuffing the value of 0x0321 into the EXIF "UserComment" field so I have the Kelvin temp in the TIFF or JPEG result of my scripts+"WhiteBalance" to record how WB was determined and truely "AsShot".

 

rgds,

Dave

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Sean,

 

I checked your M8 Updates article and there is no table. In fact you state that the aperture information is not recorded in the EXIF file. Was your memory slipping or did you actually have the data somewhere else?

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Got to respect it Dave. Im standing here like a cave man looking at fire:D.

Hey!

 

It's not me fella... Leica left all this in the DNG(and to some extent in the camera's JPEGs)... There are others here who could make more of this stuff, and with thanks, we have a great dataset to pour through our programs.

 

Oddly enough, I'm inclined to get back to film... so I'd have fewer distractions ;)

 

rgds,

Dave

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