Anbaric Posted June 12, 2023 Share #1061 Posted June 12, 2023 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) On 6/11/2023 at 7:32 PM, Huss said: And why would they when there are many people - including some on this thread - who think scratched film is acceptable. Part of the "film experience". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law I remember saying something like that ironically, then someone else picked it up and ran with it and I was genuinely unsure whether they were serious... Edited June 12, 2023 by Anbaric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 12, 2023 Posted June 12, 2023 Hi Anbaric, Take a look here Brand new MP/M-A/M6 film scratches [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
darlesch Posted July 21, 2023 Share #1062 Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) I'm late to the party. I followed this thread very closely and would like to thank Huss for advocating for getting this issue fixed and most importantly, acknowledged by Leica. It needs to be said that this is a huge feat. I bought a brand new MP 2023 mfr date very recently knowing that this could very well happen to me. Well it did. Scratches very clearly seen on scans, developed negatives, and undeveloped negatives. Leica NJ's quote for turnaround time to replace the pressure plate: 20 weeks. Me: No. I knew all I needed was a replacement pressure plate, having gone through all the troubleshooting tips to rule out other causes of scratched film. The only vendor who seemed to offer the ability to order a new pressure plate was Camtec Photo in Montreal. By the time I heard back from Montreal, I had already purchased a spare pressure plate from a friendly Leica user in Germany on eBay. Today I replaced the pressure plate myself - feel free to DM me if you'd like to do this yourself - and voila, my test roll showed no scratches on undeveloped negatives. It's like night and day. Thanks for listening and have a good day with your scratchless Leica Camera. Edited July 21, 2023 by darlesch 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyp82 Posted July 22, 2023 Share #1063 Posted July 22, 2023 That's pretty great. Is it hard to replace yourself? I didn't know it was possible to a pressure plate! Was it a plate specifically for the MP? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotoklaus Posted July 22, 2023 Share #1064 Posted July 22, 2023 I would like to see photos of the defective plate to know what causes the scratches. Unknown until know... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huss Posted July 23, 2023 Share #1065 Posted July 23, 2023 On 7/21/2023 at 3:50 PM, darlesch said: I'm late to the party. I followed this thread very closely and would like to thank Huss for advocating for getting this issue fixed and most importantly, acknowledged by Leica. It needs to be said that this is a huge feat. I bought a brand new MP 2023 mfr date very recently knowing that this could very well happen to me. Well it did. Scratches very clearly seen on scans, developed negatives, and undeveloped negatives. Leica NJ's quote for turnaround time to replace the pressure plate: 20 weeks. Me: No. I knew all I needed was a replacement pressure plate, having gone through all the troubleshooting tips to rule out other causes of scratched film. The only vendor who seemed to offer the ability to order a new pressure plate was Camtec Photo in Montreal. By the time I heard back from Montreal, I had already purchased a spare pressure plate from a friendly Leica user in Germany on eBay. Today I replaced the pressure plate myself - feel free to DM me if you'd like to do this yourself - and voila, my test roll showed no scratches on undeveloped negatives. It's like night and day. Thanks for listening and have a good day with your scratchless Leica Camera. Glad you were able to take care of it. But unfortunately ridiculous that it happened. The MP is a fantastic camera to use once working correctly. (All Ms are!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 23, 2023 Share #1066 Posted July 23, 2023 On 7/21/2023 at 4:50 PM, darlesch said: I'm late to the party. I followed this thread very closely and would like to thank Huss for advocating for getting this issue fixed and most importantly, acknowledged by Leica. It needs to be said that this is a huge feat. I bought a brand new MP 2023 mfr date very recently knowing that this could very well happen to me. Well it did. Scratches very clearly seen on scans, developed negatives, and undeveloped negatives. Leica NJ's quote for turnaround time to replace the pressure plate: 20 weeks. Me: No. I knew all I needed was a replacement pressure plate, having gone through all the troubleshooting tips to rule out other causes of scratched film. The only vendor who seemed to offer the ability to order a new pressure plate was Camtec Photo in Montreal. By the time I heard back from Montreal, I had already purchased a spare pressure plate from a friendly Leica user in Germany on eBay. Today I replaced the pressure plate myself - feel free to DM me if you'd like to do this yourself - and voila, my test roll showed no scratches on undeveloped negatives. It's like night and day. Thanks for listening and have a good day with your scratchless Leica Camera. Not good that yours was a recent production date, since this means there are still defective pressure plates mixed in with the parts bin of pressure plates they pull from to assemble the cameras. @Fotoklaus, I think this may also mean that the defective pressure plates look just like the good ones, otherwise Leica would have sorted through their parts bin and thrown out all the bad ones. This also means that Leica really cares very little for stopping this issue. As we’ve all discussed, they could burn a cheap test roll through each new camera to test them. Minimal time and cost, but evidently they can’t be bothered. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSG123 Posted July 23, 2023 Share #1067 Posted July 23, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) And people keep buying them at their inflated price to value ratio. The fact that Leica doesn't seem to care tells you all you need to know about buying modern Leica cameras. IMO, of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marckyokay Posted July 24, 2023 Share #1068 Posted July 24, 2023 To not having to nervously read through the 55 pages here ... (PLEASE DON'T SCOLD ME) Was it usually visible for you on the film itself, when you discovered the plate scratches the film? Holding the film into the light and seeing the scratches with your eye? I got my MP back and since it is as new as the ones causing trouble here, I want to check it as quickly as possible without having to shoot and develop a roll... Do you think running a "cheap" (lol) film through it and checking it with the eye will reveal the horror, or not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 24, 2023 Share #1069 Posted July 24, 2023 3 hours ago, Marckyokay said: ...Do you think running a "cheap" (lol) film through it and checking it with the eye will reveal the horror, or not? Yes. Shoot a cheap roll through the camera (wind/shoot/wind/shoot, etc.), rewind the film, remove the cartridge from the camera, pop open the cartridge at one end with a bottle opener, and remove the film (don't try to not fully rewind the film and pull it back out since a second pass over bad felt could scratch it). Then hold the film up to the light and check at various angles that will show any scratches across the film surface. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huss Posted July 25, 2023 Share #1070 Posted July 25, 2023 1 hour ago, hdmesa said: Yes. Shoot a cheap roll through the camera (wind/shoot/wind/shoot, etc.), rewind the film, remove the cartridge from the camera, pop open the cartridge at one end with a bottle opener, and remove the film (don't try to not fully rewind the film and pull it back out since a second pass over bad felt could scratch it). Then hold the film up to the light and check at various angles that will show any scratches across the film surface. That is by far the best way to check for scratches because undeveloped film is opaque. Of note - many that did scratch, only scratched on the last third section of the roll towards the end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted July 29, 2023 Share #1071 Posted July 29, 2023 Can anyone confirm the 2023 more recent batches (Apr〜Jul) have fixed this issue? Or is it still persisting on all M6 remake batches? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huss Posted July 29, 2023 Share #1072 Posted July 29, 2023 8 hours ago, shirubadanieru said: Can anyone confirm the 2023 more recent batches (Apr〜Jul) have fixed this issue? Or is it still persisting on all M6 remake batches? It’s not just M6, but MP and most prob M-A too, as they share parts. I wouldn’t trust anything on batches - you will just need to check the camera you buy because Leica obviously does not. Not all M6s from the first batch scratched. Which means it has nothing to do w batches but random selection of parts used. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 29, 2023 Share #1073 Posted July 29, 2023 (edited) Somewhere back in this thread, there was discussion about the different pressure plates. Someone mentioned a difference with plates with 4 screws? Is there any consensus on what the defective plates look like? Or is it microscopic? With my digital Ms away on holiday in Wetzlar, I’ve been enjoying re-acquainting myself with the subtleties of using my M-A. I love how my photography is more contemplative - thinking about exposure more etc The cost of film, time taken to develop and scan has changed what I photograph and why, in a good way. Anyway, I took a roll of expired film and ran it through my camera. No scratches. My M-A dates back to 2015, and has a dimpled pressure pate with 4 screws. Love my M-A … Edited July 29, 2023 by IkarusJohn 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 30, 2023 Share #1074 Posted July 30, 2023 23 hours ago, IkarusJohn said: Somewhere back in this thread, there was discussion about the different pressure plates. Someone mentioned a difference with plates with 4 screws? Is there any consensus on what the defective plates look like? Or is it microscopic? With my digital Ms away on holiday in Wetzlar, I’ve been enjoying re-acquainting myself with the subtleties of using my M-A. I love how my photography is more contemplative - thinking about exposure more etc The cost of film, time taken to develop and scan has changed what I photograph and why, in a good way. Anyway, I took a roll of expired film and ran it through my camera. No scratches. My M-A dates back to 2015, and has a dimpled pressure pate with 4 screws. Love my M-A … They didn't redesign the pressure plates to stop the scratching, they simply found out they had a bad batch or a batch with inconsistent quality. Leica never disclosed what the problem was with the plates that caused the scratching, but they are the same plates as the good ones, just made incorrectly. We don't even know if the plates themselves were directly scratching the film or if the plates caused another part of the camera to do the scratching. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borna Posted July 31, 2023 Share #1075 Posted July 31, 2023 On 7/23/2023 at 10:13 PM, CSG123 said: And people keep buying them at their inflated price to value ratio. What else should we do? If I want a new film camera, this is it what I have to choose from? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted July 31, 2023 Share #1076 Posted July 31, 2023 On 7/23/2023 at 8:45 PM, hdmesa said: Not good that yours was a recent production date, since this means there are still defective pressure plates mixed in with the parts bin of pressure plates they pull from to assemble the cameras. @Fotoklaus, I think this may also mean that the defective pressure plates look just like the good ones, otherwise Leica would have sorted through their parts bin and thrown out all the bad ones. This also means that Leica really cares very little for stopping this issue. As we’ve all discussed, they could burn a cheap test roll through each new camera to test them. Minimal time and cost, but evidently they can’t be bothered. Your post generates a visual image of the Leica assembly man (cigarette drooping from his lip), rummaging in a metal crate of loose metal components to pull out a random pressure plate. I would have expected them to be individually packaged, or a boxed batch packed in protective material (we'd have a lot more complaints of damage if they weren't); I'd be surprised if Leica couldn't identify the batch dates/source from the packaging. (But what do I know about manufacturing? I'm just a geologist who hits rocks with a hammer). 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted July 31, 2023 Share #1077 Posted July 31, 2023 On 7/22/2023 at 10:17 AM, Fotoklaus said: I would like to see photos of the defective plate to know what causes the scratches. Unknown until know... IIRC a number of people with defective cameras have tried to see or feel flaws in the pressure plate without success. It's one of the strange things about the matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darlesch Posted July 31, 2023 Share #1078 Posted July 31, 2023 Just an update to my post after my plate switch that I did myself. I shot a roll with the defective plate on for the first 5 or 6 shots. I rewound the film, took out the canister, put new plate in, put the existing roll back in, advanced to frame 7, and finished the roll. Looking at the fully dried developed negatives, it's shocking how scratched up the first 6 frames are compared to the rest of the roll: spotless. Just incredible. Once again, you couldn't tell the difference by the naked eye test looking at the two plates. They both looked polished, even with feeling with my finger. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marckyokay Posted July 31, 2023 Share #1079 Posted July 31, 2023 On 7/29/2023 at 1:45 PM, shirubadanieru said: Can anyone confirm the 2023 more recent batches (Apr〜Jul) have fixed this issue? Or is it still persisting on all M6 remake batches? Would also like to know this... I read that newer Ms still get that problem... Mine with a 2021 pressure plate went back because of a different problem and I also noted that they'd "PLEASE also check this pressure plate issue for me" 😅 let's see Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 31, 2023 Share #1080 Posted July 31, 2023 On 7/21/2023 at 4:50 PM, darlesch said: I'm late to the party. I followed this thread very closely and would like to thank Huss for advocating for getting this issue fixed and most importantly, acknowledged by Leica. It needs to be said that this is a huge feat. I bought a brand new MP 2023 mfr date very recently knowing that this could very well happen to me. Well it did. Scratches very clearly seen on scans, developed negatives, and undeveloped negatives. Leica NJ's quote for turnaround time to replace the pressure plate: 20 weeks. Me: No. I knew all I needed was a replacement pressure plate, having gone through all the troubleshooting tips to rule out other causes of scratched film. The only vendor who seemed to offer the ability to order a new pressure plate was Camtec Photo in Montreal. By the time I heard back from Montreal, I had already purchased a spare pressure plate from a friendly Leica user in Germany on eBay. Today I replaced the pressure plate myself - feel free to DM me if you'd like to do this yourself - and voila, my test roll showed no scratches on undeveloped negatives. It's like night and day. Thanks for listening and have a good day with your scratchless Leica Camera. Can you tell us the exact manufacture date for yours? (At least the month) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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