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On 6/11/2023 at 7:32 PM, Huss said:

And why would they when there are many people - including some on this thread - who think scratched film is acceptable. Part of the "film experience".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law

I remember saying something like that ironically, then someone else picked it up and ran with it and I was genuinely unsure whether they were serious...

Edited by Anbaric
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  • 1 month later...

I'm late to the party. I followed this thread very closely and would like to thank Huss for advocating for getting this issue fixed and most importantly, acknowledged by Leica. It needs to be said that this is a huge feat.  

I bought a brand new MP 2023 mfr date very recently knowing that this could very well happen to me.

Well it did.

Scratches very clearly seen on scans, developed negatives, and undeveloped negatives.

Leica NJ's quote for turnaround time to replace the pressure plate: 20 weeks.

Me: No.

I knew all I needed was a replacement pressure plate, having gone through all the troubleshooting tips to rule out other causes of scratched film. The only vendor who seemed to offer the ability to order a new pressure plate was Camtec Photo in Montreal. By the time I heard back from Montreal, I had already purchased a spare pressure plate from a friendly Leica user in Germany on eBay.

Today I replaced the pressure plate myself - feel free to DM me if you'd like to do this yourself - and voila, my test roll showed no scratches on undeveloped negatives. It's like night and day. 

Thanks for listening and have a good day with your scratchless Leica Camera. 

 

Edited by darlesch
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On 7/21/2023 at 3:50 PM, darlesch said:

I'm late to the party. I followed this thread very closely and would like to thank Huss for advocating for getting this issue fixed and most importantly, acknowledged by Leica. It needs to be said that this is a huge feat.  

I bought a brand new MP 2023 mfr date very recently knowing that this could very well happen to me.

Well it did.

Scratches very clearly seen on scans, developed negatives, and undeveloped negatives.

Leica NJ's quote for turnaround time to replace the pressure plate: 20 weeks.

Me: No.

I knew all I needed was a replacement pressure plate, having gone through all the troubleshooting tips to rule out other causes of scratched film. The only vendor who seemed to offer the ability to order a new pressure plate was Camtec Photo in Montreal. By the time I heard back from Montreal, I had already purchased a spare pressure plate from a friendly Leica user in Germany on eBay.

Today I replaced the pressure plate myself - feel free to DM me if you'd like to do this yourself - and voila, my test roll showed no scratches on undeveloped negatives. It's like night and day. 

Thanks for listening and have a good day with your scratchless Leica Camera. 

 

Glad you were able to take care of it.  But unfortunately ridiculous that it happened.

The MP is a fantastic camera to use once working correctly. (All Ms are!)

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On 7/21/2023 at 4:50 PM, darlesch said:

I'm late to the party. I followed this thread very closely and would like to thank Huss for advocating for getting this issue fixed and most importantly, acknowledged by Leica. It needs to be said that this is a huge feat.  

I bought a brand new MP 2023 mfr date very recently knowing that this could very well happen to me.

Well it did.

Scratches very clearly seen on scans, developed negatives, and undeveloped negatives.

Leica NJ's quote for turnaround time to replace the pressure plate: 20 weeks.

Me: No.

I knew all I needed was a replacement pressure plate, having gone through all the troubleshooting tips to rule out other causes of scratched film. The only vendor who seemed to offer the ability to order a new pressure plate was Camtec Photo in Montreal. By the time I heard back from Montreal, I had already purchased a spare pressure plate from a friendly Leica user in Germany on eBay.

Today I replaced the pressure plate myself - feel free to DM me if you'd like to do this yourself - and voila, my test roll showed no scratches on undeveloped negatives. It's like night and day. 

Thanks for listening and have a good day with your scratchless Leica Camera. 

 

Not good that yours was a recent production date, since this means there are still defective pressure plates mixed in with the parts bin of pressure plates they pull from to assemble the cameras.

@Fotoklaus, I think this may also mean that the defective pressure plates look just like the good ones, otherwise Leica would have sorted through their parts bin and thrown out all the bad ones.

This also means that Leica really cares very little for stopping this issue. As we’ve all discussed, they could burn a cheap test roll through each new camera to test them. Minimal time and cost, but evidently they can’t be bothered.

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To not having to nervously read through the 55 pages here ... (PLEASE DON'T SCOLD ME)

Was it usually visible for you on the film itself, when you discovered the plate scratches the film? 
Holding the film into the light and seeing the scratches with your eye? 
I got my MP back and since it is as new as the ones causing trouble here, I want to check it as quickly as possible without having to shoot and develop a roll... 

Do you think running a "cheap" (lol) film through it and checking it with the eye will reveal the horror, or not? 

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3 hours ago, Marckyokay said:

...Do you think running a "cheap" (lol) film through it and checking it with the eye will reveal the horror, or not? 

Yes. Shoot a cheap roll through the camera (wind/shoot/wind/shoot, etc.), rewind the film, remove the cartridge from the camera, pop open the cartridge at one end with a bottle opener, and remove the film (don't try to not fully rewind the film and pull it back out since a second pass over bad felt could scratch it). Then hold the film up to the light and check at various angles that will show any scratches across the film surface.

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1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Yes. Shoot a cheap roll through the camera (wind/shoot/wind/shoot, etc.), rewind the film, remove the cartridge from the camera, pop open the cartridge at one end with a bottle opener, and remove the film (don't try to not fully rewind the film and pull it back out since a second pass over bad felt could scratch it). Then hold the film up to the light and check at various angles that will show any scratches across the film surface.

That is by far the best way to check for scratches because undeveloped film is opaque.  Of note - many that did scratch, only scratched on the last third section of the roll towards the end.

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8 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

Can anyone confirm the 2023 more recent batches (Apr〜Jul) have fixed this issue? Or is it still persisting on all M6 remake batches?

It’s not just M6, but MP and most prob M-A too, as they share parts.

I wouldn’t trust anything on batches - you will just need to check the camera you buy because Leica obviously does not.  Not all M6s from the first batch scratched. Which means it has nothing to do w batches but random selection of parts used.

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Somewhere back in this thread, there was discussion about the different pressure plates.  Someone mentioned a difference with plates with 4 screws?  Is there any consensus on what the defective plates look like?  Or is it microscopic?

With my digital Ms away on holiday in Wetzlar, I’ve been enjoying re-acquainting myself with the subtleties of using my M-A.  I love how my photography is more contemplative - thinking about exposure more etc  The cost of film, time taken to develop and scan has changed what I photograph and why, in a good way.

Anyway, I took a roll of expired film and ran it through my camera.  No scratches.  My M-A dates back to 2015, and has a dimpled pressure pate with 4 screws.  Love my M-A …

Edited by IkarusJohn
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23 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Somewhere back in this thread, there was discussion about the different pressure plates.  Someone mentioned a difference with plates with 4 screws?  Is there any consensus on what the defective plates look like?  Or is it microscopic?

With my digital Ms away on holiday in Wetzlar, I’ve been enjoying re-acquainting myself with the subtleties of using my M-A.  I love how my photography is more contemplative - thinking about exposure more etc  The cost of film, time taken to develop and scan has changed what I photograph and why, in a good way.

Anyway, I took a roll of expired film and ran it through my camera.  No scratches.  My M-A dates back to 2015, and has a dimpled pressure pate with 4 screws.  Love my M-A …

They didn't redesign the pressure plates to stop the scratching, they simply found out they had a bad batch or a batch with inconsistent quality. Leica never disclosed what the problem was with the plates that caused the scratching, but they are the same plates as the good ones, just made incorrectly. We don't even know if the plates themselves were directly scratching the film or if the plates caused another part of the camera to do the scratching.

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On 7/23/2023 at 8:45 PM, hdmesa said:

Not good that yours was a recent production date, since this means there are still defective pressure plates mixed in with the parts bin of pressure plates they pull from to assemble the cameras.

@Fotoklaus, I think this may also mean that the defective pressure plates look just like the good ones, otherwise Leica would have sorted through their parts bin and thrown out all the bad ones.

This also means that Leica really cares very little for stopping this issue. As we’ve all discussed, they could burn a cheap test roll through each new camera to test them. Minimal time and cost, but evidently they can’t be bothered.

Your post generates a visual image of the Leica assembly man (cigarette drooping from his lip), rummaging in a metal crate of loose metal components to pull out a random pressure plate. I would have expected them to be individually packaged, or a boxed batch packed in protective material (we'd have a lot more complaints of damage if they weren't); I'd be surprised if Leica couldn't identify the batch dates/source from the packaging. (But what do I know about manufacturing? I'm just a geologist who hits rocks with a hammer).

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On 7/22/2023 at 10:17 AM, Fotoklaus said:

I would like to see photos of the defective plate to know what causes the scratches.

Unknown until know... 

IIRC a number of people with defective cameras have tried to see or feel flaws in the pressure plate without success. It's one of the strange things about the matter.

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Just an update to my post after my plate switch that I did myself.

I shot a roll with the defective plate on for the first 5 or 6 shots. I rewound the film, took out the canister, put new plate in, put the existing roll back in, advanced to frame 7, and finished the roll.

Looking at the fully dried developed negatives, it's shocking how scratched up the first 6 frames are compared to the rest of the roll: spotless.

Just incredible. 

Once again, you couldn't tell the difference by the naked eye test looking at the two plates. They both looked polished, even with feeling with my finger. 

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On 7/29/2023 at 1:45 PM, shirubadanieru said:

Can anyone confirm the 2023 more recent batches (Apr〜Jul) have fixed this issue? Or is it still persisting on all M6 remake batches?

Would also like to know this... 
I read that newer Ms still get that problem... Mine with a 2021 pressure plate went back because of a different problem and I also noted that they'd "PLEASE also check this pressure plate issue for me" 😅 let's see

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On 7/21/2023 at 4:50 PM, darlesch said:

I'm late to the party. I followed this thread very closely and would like to thank Huss for advocating for getting this issue fixed and most importantly, acknowledged by Leica. It needs to be said that this is a huge feat.  

I bought a brand new MP 2023 mfr date very recently knowing that this could very well happen to me.

Well it did.

Scratches very clearly seen on scans, developed negatives, and undeveloped negatives.

Leica NJ's quote for turnaround time to replace the pressure plate: 20 weeks.

Me: No.

I knew all I needed was a replacement pressure plate, having gone through all the troubleshooting tips to rule out other causes of scratched film. The only vendor who seemed to offer the ability to order a new pressure plate was Camtec Photo in Montreal. By the time I heard back from Montreal, I had already purchased a spare pressure plate from a friendly Leica user in Germany on eBay.

Today I replaced the pressure plate myself - feel free to DM me if you'd like to do this yourself - and voila, my test roll showed no scratches on undeveloped negatives. It's like night and day. 

Thanks for listening and have a good day with your scratchless Leica Camera. 

 

Can you tell us the exact manufacture date for yours? (At least the month)

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