Brand new MP/M-A/M6 film scratches [Merged]

[Huss]

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Has anyone here been to the Greenwich Maritime Museum?  I remember a school trip where we spent the entire time shuffling our feet, then zapping an unlucky soul on the back of the neck.  I did make the mistake of accidentally touching the metal edging of one of the display cases.  I think the lights in London briefly flickered at that moment.

[madNbad]

2 hours ago, Huss said:

Has anyone here been to the Greenwich Maritime Museum?  I remember a school trip where we spent the entire time shuffling our feet, then zapping an unlucky soul on the back of the neck.  I did make the mistake of accidentally touching the metal edging of one of the display cases.  I think the lights in London briefly flickered at that moment.

2004, we had been to the Maritime Museum but the one I remember most was seeing the play “The Woman in Black” on a Thursday afternoon when all of the school kids in London went to a theatre. We were surrounded by teenagers, who were quite annoying. During the play the actor who played the ghost would come down the aisle and brush against people in the audience. No one screams better than teenage girls.

[madNbad]

4 hours ago, Huss said:

Has anyone here been to the Greenwich Maritime Museum?  I remember a school trip where we spent the entire time shuffling our feet, then zapping an unlucky soul on the back of the neck.  I did make the mistake of accidentally touching the metal edging of one of the display cases.  I think the lights in London briefly flickered at that moment.

Standing on the Prime Meridian, my wife held the Sun while I was one of the planets circling her. As it has been for many years.

[Mikep996]

FWIW, In doing bunch of research on the web, I've read a couple of accounts of film scratches that, per the observers, were caused during the production of the film itself.   Admittedly, the ones I ran across seemed to be from the "boutique" film makers, not Kodak, Ilford, etc though that was not clearly stated...

Admittedly, until this thread, I would never had a reason to research such this subject! 🙄 

[jonoslack]

Hi There

Well, I've just found this thread (should have seen it before)

There are scratches on the images on my MacFilos article - This is because some of these negatives had been scanned 5 times (checking different scanning techniques). I'd been clumsy and we live in a very dusty house - the biggest culprit was probably the negative holder when I was scanning with an SLR, but perhaps sliding them in and out of negative sleeves didn't help.

. . . He would say that - you might say - but I've recently had 3 films back from Exposure lab - processed and scanned by them using a Noritsu scanner - of course the proof of the pudding . . . so here's the pudding! Sorry if it's a bit stodgy, but I can't see any scratches.

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My Bad

 

[logan2z]

As I mentioned in the other thread, it's probably worth having a close look at the negatives when you get them back from the lab, just to be sure that the lab didn't fix the visible scratches when processing the scans.  I'd personally want the peace of mind that the camera was ok and that the lab wasn't masking defects in post, especially if you ever plan to wet print any of your photos in the darkroom.

[jonoslack]

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19 minutes ago, logan2z said:

As I mentioned in the other thread, it's probably worth having a close look at the negatives when you get them back from the lab, just to be sure that the lab didn't fix the visible scratches when processing the scans.  I'd personally want the peace of mind that the camera was ok and that the lab wasn't masking defects in post, especially if you ever plan to wet print any of your photos in the darkroom.

I've already done this on films that came back previously. Not saying there is a problem or not, but I don't have one with my camera (just my technique).

[69xchange]

After returning my previous MP due to a faulty light meter, My new replacement MP arrived today. Already it has a bubble on the leatherette and the frame counter number isn’t consistently lining up with the arrow 😂😂.
 

 

The inspection card was signed by the same technician who “meticulously examined the product” my previous and current MP 🤡🤡🤡. After dealing with the never ending trash quality control from Leica , I came to accept that these are “just cosmetic issues” for a $5000 camera. As long as everything works properly, I’ll keep it and never buy new gear again from Leica.
 

I will shoot a test roll tomorrow and see how the light meter and shutter speeds are. Will also look for film scratches as well, wish me luck!! 🤞🤞

Edited March 1, 2023 by 69xchange

[madNbad]

21 minutes ago, 69xchange said:

After returning my previous MP due to a faulty light meter, My new replacement MP arrived today. Already it has a bubble on the leatherette and the frame counter number isn’t consistently lining up with the arrow 😂😂.
 

 

The inspection card was signed by the same technician who “meticulously examined the product” my previous and current MP 🤡🤡🤡. After dealing with the never ending trash quality control from Leica , I came to accept that these are “just cosmetic issues” for a $5000 camera. As long as everything works properly, I’ll keep it and never buy new gear again from Leica.
 

I will shoot a test roll tomorrow and see how the light meter and shutter speeds are. Will also look for film scratches as well, wish me luck!! 🤞🤞

I have a M4-2 that I bought from Huss. When they first came to the market, there were problems with the new camera. Leica stepped up and fixed them. Apparently, now they’re a fashion brand and correctly working cameras are a bonus.

[dpitt]

As a used Leica gear buyer, I never had this many issues. Also it looks like this is a fairly recent issue? Of course even with the M8/M9 there were reports of camera's with incorrectly calibrated focusing. There were service issues with each model that only came up 2-3 years after introduction, which Leica solved gracefully. These issues were always caused by the parts supply chain and never could have been prevented with QA techniques. The issues in this thread could and should have been caught before leaving the factory. So how did they get through? It's known that at a certain level of perfection QA can't be done on a sampling basis anymore, that is the point you have to check every single product that leaves the line. Maybe it is that?

What has changed lately?

[69xchange]

On 12/19/2022 at 9:57 AM, Huss said:

Was it this guy?

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Holy... Can we seriously start a petition to get this guy fired from Leica???

My 2022/08/26 Leica MP had a light meter problem that didnt turn off at selected shutter speeds. Then my 2022/08/30 replacement Leica MP has a leatherette bubble, misaligned frame counter arrow and to my surprise, film scratches from what I found out after developing my first roll today.

Both my camera's + @Huss M6 were "meticulously examined" by this "experienced professional".

Edited March 3, 2023 by 69xchange
Added pictures for proof

[logan2z]

2 hours ago, 69xchange said:

Holy... Can we seriously start a petition to get this guy fired from Leica???

My 2022/08/26 Leica MP had a light meter problem that didnt turn off at selected shutter speeds. Then my 2022/08/30 replacement Leica MP has a leatherette bubble, misaligned frame counter arrow and to my surprise, film scratches from what I found out after developing my first roll today.

Both my camera's + @Huss M6 were "meticulously examined" by this "experienced professional".

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Strange that your negatives seem to have scratches along the long and short axis of the film - at the same spot on each frame on the short axis.  I can't say I've ever seen that before. 

You developed the film yourself or had it done at a lab?  I assume a lab since the photo of the negatives was shot in the car.  Maybe it's just the photo, but the negatives look super dirty as well.

Edited March 3, 2023 by logan2z

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, 69xchange said:

Holy... Can we seriously start a petition to get this guy fired from Leica???

My 2022/08/26 Leica MP had a light meter problem that didnt turn off at selected shutter speeds. Then my 2022/08/30 replacement Leica MP has a leatherette bubble, misaligned frame counter arrow and to my surprise, film scratches from what I found out after developing my first roll today.

Both my camera's + @Huss M6 were "meticulously examined" by this "experienced professional".

It's obvious that Leica doesn't run a test roll through the camera and pull it out without developing and check for scratches, so even if the inspector was paying attention, they'd not catch a scratcher.

My new MP was made two days before yours, so fingers crossed it doesn't scratch film. Do your scratch lines run between frames if you tilt the film at an angle toward a lamp light so you can see it? Making sure you can see a physical scratch in the film and not just a line in the exposure.

[69xchange]

1 hour ago, logan2z said:

Strange that your negatives seem to have scratches along the long and short axis of the film - at the same spot on each frame on the short axis.  I can't say I've ever seen that before. 

You developed the film yourself or had it done at a lab?  I assume a lab since the photo of the negatives was shot in the car.  Maybe it's just the photo, but the negatives look super dirty as well.

You are correct based on your observation. it was developed at a lab. 

[69xchange]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

It's obvious that Leica doesn't run a test roll through the camera and pull it out without developing and check for scratches, so even if the inspector was paying attention, they'd not catch a scratcher.

My new MP was made two days before yours, so fingers crossed it doesn't scratch film. Do your scratch lines run between frames if you tilt the film at an angle toward a lamp light so you can see it? Making sure you can see a physical scratch in the film and not just a line in the exposure.

They could have checked the light meter for my first MP and then checked the leatherette for the second MP and the frame counter needle. 
 

anyways, the scratches run between the frames too. I’ll run a dry roll without developing to confirm if this is a scratcher and not caused by the lab.

 

also you haven’t confirmed that your august 2022 batch isn’t a scratcher yet?

Edited March 3, 2023 by 69xchange

[hdmesa]

2 minutes ago, 69xchange said:

...also you haven’t confirmed that your august 2022 batch isn’t a scratcher yet?

Not yet. After finishing the current roll, I will sacrifice a roll to test it. Going to send one roll of color and one b&w to the lab soon, too. This is a lab that hasn't scratched my film in the past.

[hdmesa]

9 minutes ago, 69xchange said:

They could have checked the light meter for my first MP and then checked the leatherette for the second MP and the frame counter needle.

Absolutely, there's no excuse for any of that to make it past inspection.

[hdmesa]

@69xchange and @Huss, the suspense was killing me with my new MP, so I clicked through and wasted the second half of my CineStill BWXX – I'd been taking cheap test shots with it anyway. Film looks perfect – not a mark on either side when examining in bright light at an angle (as I did before to see the scratches from my new M-A last summer, which was returned/RIP).

I do wind my film slowly and rewind slowly and make sure the rewind lever is fully depressed, but I doubt that makes any difference. I load it the typical Leica way, just dropping it in there without lining anything up.

@69xchange, since your MP was made two days after mine, it's doubtful the pressure plates were from different batches. If (and I mean IF) it's the pressure plate, then they are just randomly bad.

[hdmesa]

@Huss, when you tested your M6 with a new roll of film, did you pull it all out all the way before loading the first time to make sure it wasn't scratched from the factory? It's highly unlikely, but what if in a rush to get film to market, manufacturers are inadvertently scratching the film during production or loading?

@69xchange, when you test yours with a new blank roll, would you make sure and pull out at least an arm's length of the film to make sure there are no scratches on the film before rolling it back up and testing it?

Edited March 3, 2023 by hdmesa

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[69xchange]

2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

@Huss, when you tested your M6 with a new roll of film, did you pull it all out all the way before loading the first time to make sure it wasn't scratched from the factory? It's highly unlikely, but what if in a rush to get film to market, manufacturers are inadvertently scratching the film during production or loading?

@69xchange, when you test yours with a new blank roll, would you make sure and pull out at least an arm's length of the film to make sure there are no scratches on the film before rolling it back up and testing it?

@hdmesa That’s good to hear that your MP does NOT scratch film. 
 

It turns out mine was scratched by the lab. The undeveloped roll I ran through just now didn’t have scratches. But the cosmetics issues are disappointing.. I understand they’re just cosmetics but I hate how I have to keep convincing myself that it’s only cosmetics every time I see them. 
 

@hdmesa I cannot remember if the first MP iso dial was flat or convex (the plastic circle part with the iso numbers printed). My replacement is not flat and is a bit warped/ convex shape but rotates fine when changing the iso. I assume it’s the decal or something?? but it looks like if a piece of cardboard box got soaked and dried up.