Andan lit by 2 lights.

[carl_valiquet]

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The sun-light coming from the back (right)

And a flash-light (a flash on the camera.).

I will experiment more....

M10R 35 Summilux Asph.

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[fotografr]

Lovely background and, of course, a lovely subject. I think the lighting technique is almost there, except that it seems a bit hot on her cheek. I think that could be easily fixed with a touch of burning and dodging. Otherwise, the foreground and background are nicely balanced. 

[carl_valiquet]

8 minutes ago, fotografr said:

Lovely background and, of course, a lovely subject. I think the lighting technique is almost there, except that it seems a bit hot on her cheek. I think that could be easily fixed with a touch of burning and dodging. Otherwise, the foreground and background are nicely balanced. 

Thank you Brent for taking the time to give me feedback. Without the use of flash, either the BG is to light if I expose for Andan's face and if I expose for the BG, then she becomes almost silhouette. Sort of fun to use the flash. Mary Ellen Mark used flash a lot. Her assistant held a flash off camera.  I do thing the cheek is a bit overexposed. Appreciate. Regards. Carl.

[fotografr]

39 minutes ago, carl_valiquet said:

Thank you Brent for taking the time to give me feedback. Without the use of flash, either the BG is to light if I expose for Andan's face and if I expose for the BG, then she becomes almost silhouette. Sort of fun to use the flash. Mary Ellen Mark used flash a lot. Her assistant held a flash off camera.  I do thing the cheek is a bit overexposed. Appreciate. Regards. Carl.

I once had a hot shoe attachment with a cord that was about 1 meter long, so I could hold my small flash unit off to the side. Since the unit was in my free hand, focusing had to be done by moving myself back and forth rather than using the lens focus mechanism. I didn't do that very often. Cheers, Brent

[erl]

Carl, a good starting point for this type of shot, depending on the effect you want, is to set your flash to underexpose 1.5 to 2 stops. it all depends on whether you want to 'illuminate' the face or maintain the 'backlit' look.

[carl_valiquet]

5 hours ago, erl said:

Carl, a good starting point for this type of shot, depending on the effect you want, is to set your flash to underexpose 1.5 to 2 stops. it all depends on whether you want to 'illuminate' the face or maintain the 'backlit' look.

Erl, I thank you so much for your suggestion. I will try this. The beauty of shooting digital is I can see the results immediately.

[stuny]

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Your lovely shot has launched some more learning for me.  I love this forum

[Nachtmsk]

Funny I was just thinking of going out with a handheld off-camera  flash on the street and seeing what I could get.  Love the tones. She's got a great face.

 

 

[carl_valiquet]

3 hours ago, stuny said:

Your lovely shot has launched some more learning for me.  I love this forum

Glad I was a bit of help Stuart. And I too like this forum. 

[stray cat]

I think that's a gorgeous portrait, Carl. I like how her face is illuminated - sure, it looks a little artificial, but it also has the effect of really drawing your eye to that marvellous face.

As John (Erl ) has mentioned underexposing the flash, and as you have mentioned Mary Ellen Mark's technique, I offer the following example of using on-camera flash in daylight:

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This was taken at the town dump in Oaxaca, Mexico during a workshop with Mary Ellen Mark I was fortunate enough to do back in 2011. It was a very hot and bright day, with a lot of reflectance also from the trash that lay all around. I approached this man and he was gracious enough to let me take some photographs of him as he went about his work. I had my little SF20 flash with me and, luckily, some filters. Using XP2 Super film and overexposing the film by two stops, and with yellow and green filters stacked on my 28mm lens, I was just able to get an exposure of 1/50 at f22. I set the flash to underexpose by one stop to provide some fill on the deep shadow beneath the brim of his hat.

During our daily review Mary Ellen loved the picture but thought I should have dialed up the flash a bit as she thought it was still a bit too dark on his face. I kind of disagree with her there as I find it's on the border of being believable as it is, and I feel more brightness on his face might look too artificial. To each his (or her) own and it very much depends on the picture and what you are trying to convey.

[carl_valiquet]

39 minutes ago, Nachtmsk said:

Funny I was just thinking of going out with a handheld off-camera  flash on the street and seeing what I could get.  Love the tones. She's got a great face.

 

 

Thank you Mike. I will pass on to Andan your comment. I do like how the flash opens up the shadows and depending on the setting on the lens and camera, it is possible to get a darker background. I will do more this week in Jakarta. Hopefully I get an image worth posting. Regards. Carl

[carl_valiquet]

33 minutes ago, stray cat said:

I think that's a gorgeous portrait, Carl. I like how her face is illuminated - sure, it looks a little artificial, but it also has the effect of really drawing your eye to that marvellous face.

As John (Erl ) has mentioned underexposing the flash, and as you have mentioned Mary Ellen Mark's technique, I offer the following example of using on-camera flash in daylight:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

This was taken at the town dump in Oaxaca, Mexico during a workshop with Mary Ellen Mark I was fortunate enough to do back in 2011. It was a very hot and bright day, with a lot of reflectance also from the trash that lay all around. I approached this man and he was gracious enough to let me take some photographs of him as he went about his work. I had my little SF20 flash with me and, luckily, some filters. Using XP2 Super film and overexposing the film by two stops, and with yellow and green filters stacked on my 28mm lens, I was just able to get an exposure of 1/50 at f22. I set the flash to underexpose by one stop to provide some fill on the deep shadow beneath the brim of his hat.

During our daily review Mary Ellen loved the picture but thought I should have dialed up the flash a bit as she thought it was still a bit too dark on his face. I kind of disagree with her there as I find it's on the border of being believable as it is, and I feel more brightness on his face might look too artificial. To each his (or her) own and it very much depends on the picture and what you are trying to convey.

Dear Philip.

You and I are one of the lucky ones to have met Mary Ellen. Thanks for taking the time to write about your experience. I absolutely love the photo you took of this man. I feel the presence of Mary Ellen. And I beg to differ with her, I do like the way your portrait looks natural. Either here nor there, it is a wonderful technique. Thanks for the conversation and feedback. Much appreciated. Regards. Carl.

[erl]

37 minutes ago, stray cat said:

I think that's a gorgeous portrait, Carl. I like how her face is illuminated - sure, it looks a little artificial, but it also has the effect of really drawing your eye to that marvellous face.

As John (Erl ) has mentioned underexposing the flash, and as you have mentioned Mary Ellen Mark's technique, I offer the following example of using on-camera flash in daylight:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

This was taken at the town dump in Oaxaca, Mexico during a workshop with Mary Ellen Mark I was fortunate enough to do back in 2011. It was a very hot and bright day, with a lot of reflectance also from the trash that lay all around. I approached this man and he was gracious enough to let me take some photographs of him as he went about his work. I had my little SF20 flash with me and, luckily, some filters. Using XP2 Super film and overexposing the film by two stops, and with yellow and green filters stacked on my 28mm lens, I was just able to get an exposure of 1/50 at f22. I set the flash to underexpose by one stop to provide some fill on the deep shadow beneath the brim of his hat.

During our daily review Mary Ellen loved the picture but thought I should have dialed up the flash a bit as she thought it was still a bit too dark on his face. I kind of disagree with her there as I find it's on the border of being believable as it is, and I feel more brightness on his face might look too artificial. To each his (or her) own and it very much depends on the picture and what you are trying to convey.

Phil,  your flash balance is close to perfect for this particular subject. I could handle it if the subject were a bit darker, but because the facial expression is so powerful, it demands the amount of light you have given it. In this instance your result is better than Mary-Ellen's suggestion. 😉

[stray cat]

2 minutes ago, erl said:

Phil,  your flash balance is close to perfect for this particular subject. I could handle it if the subject were a bit darker, but because the facial expression is so powerful, it demands the amount of light you have given it. In this instance your result is better than Mary-Ellen's suggestion. 😉

Thank you John! It would stand as the only time ever I'd have even slightly debated one of her suggestions!

[stray cat]

9 minutes ago, carl_valiquet said:

Dear Philip.

You and I are one of the lucky ones to have met Mary Ellen. Thanks for taking the time to write about your experience. I absolutely love the photo you took of this man. I feel the presence of Mary Ellen. And I beg to differ with her, I do like the way your portrait looks natural. Either here nor there, it is a wonderful technique. Thanks for the conversation and feedback. Much appreciated. Regards. Carl.

Thank you so much Carl. I'd love to hear of your experience in meeting her! And I really appreciate your comment on my photograph very much. I'm looking forward to seeing some more of your work, too, with flash (and without!) as it is a very useful and fine technique. Actually this thread makes me inspired to do as you and Mike are contemplating, and exploring the technique more.

[Sandokan]

I like the photo and how it turned out. 

If you would like a hint, read on, otherwise ignore my opinion which is just adding to what Brent said earlier. 

Use a Nikon flash hot shoe extension cable and a diffuser in front of flash. Hold the flash out with your left hand to illuminate her right side of her face while you photograph her left side (which will be more in shadow). Just a suggestion to try. 

[carl_valiquet]

On 11/15/2022 at 9:06 AM, stray cat said:

Thank you so much Carl. I'd love to hear of your experience in meeting her! And I really appreciate your comment on my photograph very much. I'm looking forward to seeing some more of your work, too, with flash (and without!) as it is a very useful and fine technique. Actually this thread makes me inspired to do as you and Mike are contemplating, and exploring the technique more.

He Phil. Sorry for the late response. The « flash» is faster than me. HaHa.

I attended a workshop with Mary Ellen Mark many years ago in New York city. We spent a lot of time in her New York studio. We were about 10 students.Mary Ellen looked at our individual portfolios as she was talking about her experiences. The year I went to the workshop, digital photography was creeping in the background. Mary Ellen would ask the students when looking at their images: « is this with film or digital?» I do believe and I felt that she was a bit « troubled» (not sure this is a good word. More inquisitive. Like she was saying: I shall have to adapt to this new way). Her questioning showed me that this person who had a stature as a well-known photographer was also a sensitive human being.We were there to « cover» the Halloween parade so the next afternoon of our meeting, she accompanied us on the streets where we took photos of the people in different disguises.Then in the evening we were to make photos of the parade. I tried the flash technique. In my opinion I did a few interesting  images but all in all I was not very satisfied with many of them. Especially of the night parade. But I did learn a lot and I had fun.It is one of the workshops that I will remember and I was saddened to hear of Mary Ellen’s demise.I can not post images on this forum because I took photos of the Halloween with a Hasselblad 6x6. Here is a link to my web site where you see some of these images.

http://www.valiquet.com/new-york--halloween-parade.html

Regards. Carl

[carl_valiquet]

On 11/15/2022 at 9:37 AM, Sandokan said:

I like the photo and how it turned out. 

If you would like a hint, read on, otherwise ignore my opinion which is just adding to what Brent said earlier. 

Use a Nikon flash hot shoe extension cable and a diffuser in front of flash. Hold the flash out with your left hand to illuminate her right side of her face while you photograph her left side (which will be more in shadow). Just a suggestion to try. 

Dear Sandokan,

I thank you very much for this suggestion. Thank you for taking the time to write to me.

Holding the flash off camera will give the image a more balanced look. And the diffused off to the side flash will create a softer more 3 D look. You are correct. The problem with this technique is focusing the M camera ( with my left hand) and holding the flash off the to the side with the same left hand. I have a photographer friend who uses this flash technique in his commercial work. The flash is on a light stand off to the side and he makes use of a remote triggering device.

As the saying goes: «if you can’t beat them, join them». I can’t focus and hold the flash at the same time so, taking inspiration on Weegee the New York tabloid press photographer who used a flash on his press camera, I decided to set the non-diffused flash on the camera, pointing directly to the subject. At times making the light from the flash more noticeable. I do love how shooting with a flash brings a sharpness to the images. Regards. Carl

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[stray cat]

18 hours ago, carl_valiquet said:

He Phil. Sorry for the late response. The « flash» is faster than me. HaHa.

I attended a workshop with Mary Ellen Mark many years ago in New York city. We spent a lot of time in her New York studio. We were about 10 students.Mary Ellen looked at our individual portfolios as she was talking about her experiences. The year I went to the workshop, digital photography was creeping in the background. Mary Ellen would ask the students when looking at their images: « is this with film or digital?» I do believe and I felt that she was a bit « troubled» (not sure this is a good word. More inquisitive. Like she was saying: I shall have to adapt to this new way). Her questioning showed me that this person who had a stature as a well-known photographer was also a sensitive human being.We were there to « cover» the Halloween parade so the next afternoon of our meeting, she accompanied us on the streets where we took photos of the people in different disguises.Then in the evening we were to make photos of the parade. I tried the flash technique. In my opinion I did a few interesting  images but all in all I was not very satisfied with many of them. Especially of the night parade. But I did learn a lot and I had fun.It is one of the workshops that I will remember and I was saddened to hear of Mary Ellen’s demise.I can not post images on this forum because I took photos of the Halloween with a Hasselblad 6x6. Here is a link to my web site where you see some of these images.

http://www.valiquet.com/new-york--halloween-parade.html

Regards. Carl

Thank you so much for relating your experience, Carl. I must also say that the photos you took on the workshop in New York are rather stunning. I had a look through quite a few of your portfolios and have bookmarked your site - wonderful work, and I particularly enjoyed your work from Algeria, having all-too briefly visited that country myself. Really great work.

I don't want to hijack the thread, so I hope you'll forgive me, but you might find somewhat interesting the following article that appeared on the excellent Leicaphilia website a few years ago that I wrote about my own meeting with Mary Ellen Mark. I think you'll find some familiarity with these experiences as I did with yours: http://leicaphilia.com/meeting-mary-ellen/

Cheers, Phil

[carl_valiquet]

29 minutes ago, stray cat said:

Thank you so much for relating your experience, Carl. I must also say that the photos you took on the workshop in New York are rather stunning. I had a look through quite a few of your portfolios and have bookmarked your site - wonderful work, and I particularly enjoyed your work from Algeria, having all-too briefly visited that country myself. Really great work.

I don't want to hijack the thread, so I hope you'll forgive me, but you might find somewhat interesting the following article that appeared on the excellent Leicaphilia website a few years ago that I wrote about my own meeting with Mary Ellen Mark. I think you'll find some familiarity with these experiences as I did with yours: http://leicaphilia.com/meeting-mary-ellen/

Cheers, Phil

Phil, just read your message. I will certainly look up the link you sent me. Looking forward to reading it. Thanks for your words regarding my web site ( I am now correcting layout errors)And adding images. My web site is an encouragement for me to continue making images or scanning old ones. And NO you are not hijacking my post, I really appreciate when other image makers converse and discuss. Regards. Carl