Sigma/Panasonic lens on SL Typ 601

[Berel Shoots Cars]

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Hello everyone, 

I am considering changing my Canon Eos R for a original Leica SL. We often say that a camera is a very personal tool, and the EOS R is not a match for me. Meanwhile, Typ 601 tend to become affordable on the 2nd hand market, thus appealing. Here is what is motivating me :

1. More enjoyable shooting experience : I have tried a Leica M11 for a photo walk, and I was really shocked by the handling and the build quality. They were really contributing to the experience.
2. 3rd party lenses available (especially Sigma) : Canon RF mount is closed, and there is no sign of Canon wanting to open it. It starts to bore me, especially when we see what Sigma and Tamron are capable to produce affordable yet very qualitative primes and f2,8 lenses. With Canon we have either very expensive L lenses, cheap feeling and designed RF lenses (though with good optical performance), or adapted old EF lenses (which I do not want to buy).
3. Overall better IQ : with having a better lens than what I have on my Eos R and an SL, I expect to have a slightly bump in IQ (especially texture rendition and colors), even if this is the trickiest point.
4. Having a camera I am proud of.

Please, do you have feedback about using a SL Typ 601 with 3rd party lenses ? I am especially considering Sigma F2,8 Zoom (16-28 or 28-70), Sigma I-series or Art primes, and some Panasonic zoom (20-60 seems a very nice range for travel photography, as well as 24-105 F4). I have heard that it can have issues with AF and/or battery life, do you have any experience in that regard ? 

I know it would be better to have Leica SL lenses, but at the moment their price point is just too high for me. Still, even with 3rd party lenses, I expect to gain in terms of body quality, little bit IQ EVF, and, most important, overall shooting experience thanks to a nicer body like the SL. But I am still wondering wether it is really worth it if it is to not have Leica lenses.

I use my camera for some automotive photography (mainly still) and general travel photography (urban or natural landscapes). I make little use of continuous autofocus and no use of video mode.

Thank you all for your time

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[frame-it]

6 hours ago, Berel Shoots Cars said:

Overall better IQ : with having a better lens than what I have on my Eos R and an SL, I expect to have a slightly bump in IQ (especially texture rendition and colors), even if this is the trickiest point.

the canon R [not stm] lenses will easily beat the sigma and panasonic L mount lenses in IQ, but of course they are quite expensive.

the SL601 Sensor tech is quite old, better to go for a used SL2 or used SL2S

you're shooting only manual focus? so its better to go to a shop to try and check which sigma / panasonic lenses feel comfortable with manual focus [using the shops camera]

[Archiver]

2 hours ago, frame-it said:

you're shooting only manual focus? so its better to go to a shop to try and check which sigma / panasonic lenses feel comfortable with manual focus [using the shops camera]

He mentioned continuous autofocus, not that he was only shooting in manual. And this is good, because L mount cameras tend to work really well with single AF but not as well with continuous autofocus.

If al all possible, find a secondhand shop that has stock of the SL601 and at least one or two Sigma or Panasonic lenses, and try it out. What is acceptable for some may not be for others.

Also, the SL's handling is quite different from the SL2 and SL2-S, and of course the Leica M bodies. I love M bodies but couldn't feel comfortable with the SL601, but the SL2 felt so much better, despite seemingly minimal outward difference. The SL felt like a big block with uncomfortable edges, whereas the SL2 melded instantly with the hand.

[BernardC]

10 hours ago, frame-it said:

the SL601 Sensor tech is quite old, better to go for a used SL2 or used SL2S

The SL2s sensor has an extra stop or two in low light, and better AF, but I haven't found any big difference at normal ISOs (base to 1600 or so). The SL was one of the best low-light cameras of its time.

On the video side, you can shoot 10-bit in-camera with the SL2s, and full-frame 4K. That's worth a price premium.

[Paul2660]

I have been very impressed with the latest Sigma L mount lenses. 
 

I think you would find that the latest Sigma lenses would be equal or so close to equal against either Nikon or Canon mirrorless lenses. 
 

Sigma’s 20mm 1.4 is the only 1.4 lens I have used in a wide that has extremely low coma in the corners. 
 

Sigma’s 35mm, 65mm and 90mm contemporary lenses are excellent. 
 

Sigma has come a long way in production of quality optics. 

A used SL 601 would work great with any of these lenses. 
 

Paul
 

 

[Krycek]

What about the battery of the SL 601 with Panasonic / Sigma lenses?

Is there still a problem with the battery life when using lenses from these two manufacturers?

Have the successive updates of the camera solved this problem?

[smcmason]

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I am an SL (601) user and have also owned an RP and R5. I have pretty long hands/fingers and find the SL comfortable to hold. Others feel differently. I have come to actually prefer Panasonic & Sigma lenses to the SL lenses (although I do adapt a lot of R glass to the SL since I also shoot an R6.2). I absolutely do not think that all RF/L glass beats Panasonic/Sigma glass. Especially the Sigma Art offerings. The SL glass (although great in IQ) is just so expensive and heavy. I've had two copies of the 24-90 and the 90-280. If I didn't care about money or portability, I'd have kept them. For value, I am thrilled with others like the Sigma 14-24 Art f2.8. I have the Panasonic 20-60 and the 24-105. Have also had the 28-70 S f2.8 and 70-200 S f2.8.  As far as the less expensive zooms go, I prefer the images from the 24-105, but the 20-60 is so cheap and small that it definitely has its moments. The Sigma 150-600 S is also outstanding for the money if you need reach. 

I wouldn't expect much similarity between the SL and the M11, though. They are radically different in both form and function. What I appreciate most about the SL might be the sensor. It's not another Sony sensor that every other mirrorless camera (or phone) seems to be these days. The colors and IQ seem just a little bit different than everything else out there and I really like that. I primarily use manual focus, so I can't comment much on the AF aspect except to say I wouldn't expect it to be on par with newer Canon stuff. I always carry one extra battery with me, but almost never need to use it. No complaints at all about battery life. They aren't cheap, though!

Edited November 9, 2022 by smcmason

[jaapv]

I have the 28-70 on the SL601 -a nice lens,but it is not world class in acuity - I use Topaz Sharpen AI on a regular basis. It works better with my Panasonic Lumix S5.

[Phil1066]

There is no doubt that the SL lenses, particularly the 24-90 are optimised for the sensor on the SL601. Its a stunning combo.

I have also used M mount lenses including Carl Zeiss and Voitglander, all with their own unique 'analogue' look. I now have the Lumix 70-300 and 20-60 as a travel combo, which does render more a digital look, and the only time the battery drains a little faster is when using OS lenses like the 70-300. But then again the 24-90SL lens also had built in OS.

No issues in reality, though I had a slight concern about how Leica can keep the camera working optimally with lenses that have been released well after the last Firmware update on the SL..... 

[Emperor_Carl]

On 11/9/2022 at 2:27 PM, smcmason said:

I am an SL (601) user and have also owned an RP and R5. I have pretty long hands/fingers and find the SL comfortable to hold. Others feel differently. I have come to actually prefer Panasonic & Sigma lenses to the SL lenses (although I do adapt a lot of R glass to the SL since I also shoot an R6.2). I absolutely do not think that all RF/L glass beats Panasonic/Sigma glass. Especially the Sigma Art offerings. The SL glass (although great in IQ) is just so expensive and heavy. I've had two copies of the 24-90 and the 90-280. If I didn't care about money or portability, I'd have kept them. For value, I am thrilled with others like the Sigma 14-24 Art f2.8. I have the Panasonic 20-60 and the 24-105. Have also had the 28-70 S f2.8 and 70-200 S f2.8.  As far as the less expensive zooms go, I prefer the images from the 24-105, but the 20-60 is so cheap and small that it definitely has its moments. The Sigma 150-600 S is also outstanding for the money if you need reach. 

I wouldn't expect much similarity between the SL and the M11, though. They are radically different in both form and function. What I appreciate most about the SL might be the sensor. It's not another Sony sensor that every other mirrorless camera (or phone) seems to be these days. The colors and IQ seem just a little bit different than everything else out there and I really like that. I primarily use manual focus, so I can't comment much on the AF aspect except to say I wouldn't expect it to be on par with newer Canon stuff. I always carry one extra battery with me, but almost never need to use it. No complaints at all about battery life. They aren't cheap, though!

Hello, how did you adapt RF lenses to use on your SL ? I tried to search in Google but couldn't find one.

I have both a Canon R and a Leica SL.

[jaapv]

Leica and a host of third-party manufacturers sell L-M adapters. Leica is the only one that is fully functional in lens recognition, but quite expensive. The third-party ones function quite adequately.  

[dpitt]

Be aware that some cheap ones can be unsafe. I have one MFT - M adapter that functions, but it unlocks at the slightest touch of the mount button. Since I have a replacement, this one is not in use anymore...

Also, some will not reach infinity with some lenses because they are slightly too long.
Apart from Leica, I have good experiences with Novoflex, K&F and URTH.

No affiliation with any 🙂.

With URTH you even sponsor some trees with every purchase...

Edited February 10, 2024 by dpitt

[smcmason]

21 hours ago, Emperor_Carl said:

Hello, how did you adapt RF lenses to use on your SL ? I tried to search in Google but couldn't find one.

I have both a Canon R and a Leica SL.

I probably could've worded that more clearly - I was talking about adapting Leica R mount lenses, not Canon RF lenses. 

[dpitt]

What you need is a L-R adapter. The same brands that I mentioned above will provide them. IMO R lenses are at least as well suited for the SL as M lenses. I use them all the time on my SL, even more than my M lenses. In fact the only L mount FF lens that I have now is the 20-60mm Panasonic zoom. It is used more on my TL2 than the SL, where I prefer the excellent 35-70mm F4 Vario-Elmar R and mostly R lens primes. Manual focus with magnification aid is very easy and accurate on the SL. And the results are very good, maybe only beaten by the excellent range of Leica SL lenses. Compared to the SL lenses, the R lenses are very small and light, which I prefer and I do not mind MF.

The Leica adapter offers auto lens recognition if the R lens is a ROM mount only. It will then set the lens profile automatically and write it to the EXIF info. Also it will record the diaphragm that is set. With ROM zoom lenses it will record the FL of the shot too. With all other mounts it just records the lens profile, but you have to chose it manually.

Unfortunately, Leica decided to NOT write the chosen lens profile when a non Leica adapter is used. You can set the lens profile manually,  and it is used at the time of shot, just not written in the EXIF info.

Alternatively you can work with a stack of L-M and M-R adapters. For lenses longer than 150mm that can give some vignetting issues.

[PavelS]

I have been using the original SL Typ 601 with the later Sigma DN DG Art lenses (50/1.4 and 85/1.4) along with SL-2s body and Leica SL 90mm APO Summicron. I till consider the Typ 601 very enjoyable and capable camera today and in fact I do like the user interface logic and button layout better than SL2-s. The later camera does have better dynamic range which can be useful in extreme low light situations. Other than that I liked the image output equally and I loved to shoot them often in slightly tweaked (contrast-ier) BW mode.

Both Sigma DN DG Art lenses were very good and at normal magnification I mostly could not tell which image was shot with Sigma 85mm and which was shot with APO Summicron 90. The difference is there when you pixel peep on your computer screen, of course but on printed photograph you would not be able to tell. Due the nature of SL and SL2-s AF I mostly used both cameras in AF-S mode with the pin-point cross AF mark and only used the AF-C occasionally when photographing moving person and always switched back to AF-S in frustration. 

However my most used lens was SL Vario-Elmarit 24-70/2.8 which I still keep using now on Lumix S5IIX. I highly recommend that lens if you can find it for good price.

[AdjusterBrett]

OK, my $0.02 from the cheap seats...   

I have an SL (601), TL2 with the EVF, Panasonic DC-S1, and two fixed Sony’s the DSC-R1 (circa 2005) and the DSC-RX1 (OLD too).  These I actively use.  I started on a fuji XT2 (still have), also have XT100, XT1, XT4, Nikon D750, and an old sigma…. I’ve been through too many to list and we are currently culling the herd and will end up with only the five mentioned (plus the RX100m3 for the pocket).

I’m NOT normal – I was bitten by having a child LATE in life (at 47 – first and only) and I stated with the DSC-R1 – a dinosaur from 2005 at 10mp and a fixed zoom on an APS-C – slowest camera ever with its >20mb files to a CF card – it took 2-3 seconds to focus, then 10-15 seconds to write the file – but out the other end….  Even by today’s standards – stands up (that glass was something special).  Moved to an XT2 – and in the packaging of my first interchangeable was an excessively venomous insect who attached me….  I survived (barely – as I am married and NOT the chairman of the board) till now.  The disease is not so rare but caused a veracious appetite for vintage lenses…. From the XT2 – next came the (special) RX1, the D750, XT100, XT4 (first NEW camera I ever bought), and so on.  I’ve bought over 30 now – only 1 new – and will only keep 5.  The early years taught me patience and the value of framing the right shot.

I am that guy who has a camera on him all the time – 75000 photos of my daughter – daily.  Thereby I’ve made numerous acquaintances with others with the same interest (and different gear) – and we regularly swap or go side by side.  I have several friends (now) whose pelican case has a value above my home – point – have access to stuff I can never be allowed to buy (again – I’m not the chairman of the board).

I’ve dumped Fuji (great brand and cameras – even better glass), as I’m old – have even older eyes – and shoot vintage 75% of the time – the first look through the (OMG) EVF of the Panasonic and its ability to see and shoot in the dark – the Fujis lost out, period.  The S1 is magical in low light, period.  That said – I love the SL for daytime – it has a great EVF and its easier and cleaner to handle – it is my goto.  If you are shooting low light – NOTHING measures up to an S1.

I tell you all this to lead you to the principle that drives my suggestion.

I have the 20-60 and the 50 from lumix.  I have the DG DN versions of the 105/2.8, the 85/1.4, 100-400mm and the HSM version of the 105/1.4.  In comparison to friends Sony’s and Canons (Sony has the 105/1.4 as well) – they are both light years faster on focus when something is moving.  If its still – really doesn’t matter (and that is a point I want to make – is the photo waiting on you or are you waiting on the photo)….  The Sony with the Gmaster lenses are lighting fast for moving subjects.    Bottomline – if you shoot moving subjects and want lots of shots – get a Sony (they are BORING and the photos will require lots of post to make them look good) – but you will get the shots.  If its ½ and ½ (static vs dynamic) get the LEICA.  The Panasonic S1 blows away even the SL2S – damn thing will allow me to hack a federal agency within its menu – and I’m pretty sure it will unlock my car (not gone that far into the menu yet) – but the actual engagement (still better than Sony) – is completely lacking compared to the Leica’s minimalistic approach.  I LOVE MY SL – the simplistic – the clean – the ENGAGEMENT – the photo we are after – we hope it to be called art – but with the LEICA – the art is in the taking of the image as well.

Autofocus – the SL is good enough, period – and for some (who have not shot native on Sony) will say its quick.  My Fuji XT4 with the 90/f2 was their sharpest lens – and what I would call – snappy – it’s no comparison to the Sony (shot an A7IV with the GM85/1.4 – damn thing focuses through walls/LOL) – but if it’s a static image or portrait – who cares.

I have shot both the SL and the S1 side by side with a friend and his A7's (he has them all) and the Sigma DG HSN (older) 105/1.4 – and although he blows me away in grabs (quick focus) – BOTH the leica and the panasonic look better.  When we switch to the macro (a DG DN lens) – the difference is much smaller – as it focuses faster – and my stuff still looks better.  He mostly shoots birds and fast moving stuff – it’s his thing – and I miss more often than not (about 30% hit rate vs his 60-70).

If I were starting over – I would buy the SL, the 20-60 (daytime lens), the 105 DG DN macro (blurs enough for portraits – the 105/1.4 and the 85/1.4 is OVERKILL) and then buy vintage to fill the gaps I wanted to shoot.  Highly recommend the elmarit 90, and then get yourself into vintage / manual focus by buying a $15 MD 50/1.7  and a $30 – 50 Helios 44m-2.

I cannot allocate the funds to buy a Leica SL lens (refer to position noted above), so I cannot tell you how it’s autofocus is – but it will be NO WHERE near a current Alpha 7 with native glass nor an R with RF glass – but if that matters completely relies on your usage.  For me – it’s the SL all day long.  

Real World – Cedar Point (famous amusement park) – I am the schlep with the S1 and the Sigma DG DN 100-400 trying to capture my daughter and her friend on a roller coaster roaring down the hill from far away – and if I had a Sony or a Canon, I would grab at least twice as many keepers – but guess what – that lens gets dropped for vintage once back on the ground – and what comes out of my Panasonic or the S1 or for that matter the TL2 far outweighs getting those extra action shots on a fast moving target.  YES, I'm that guy with a roller bag at the amusement park - its my thing (and you could NOT carry the S1 with the 100-400 for very long)...

Real world – RIGHT NOW on my SL I have a Vivitar 28-210 (the one with the 72mm filters and the non-knurled focus)) – it’s lightweight and the colors / rendering on this body – LOVE IT – and I’ve 25 other – better zooms – to choose from.  I don’t use zooms often – but by dumb luck – before I packaged and traded it in – I tried it in the living room – and poof – keeper of a lens.  Its not very special on the S1, but on the SL - well I'm keeping it (and NOT telling the chairman)...

You CAN duplicate the unique rendering of the SL in post – but every lens seems to have a character all its own – and it would take you a lifetime to duplicate that which you can simply have.  SL is special – and the engagement (shooting experience) is second only to the TL2 I have, and not by much as the TL2 is like sleek and modern – the SL is very tactile (not analogue like a fuji).  SL, 20-60 (used), 105/2.8 DG DN, and then a few vintage lenses - autofocus is way over rated and the SL was made for vintage IMHO.

[AdjusterBrett]

OH one downside to the SL (again cheapskate in the cheap seats) - the original battery was replaced by a newer / better - but is still a buck seventy and there are NO 3rd party batteries that I've found...  still worth it