geotrupede Posted November 5, 2022 Share #1 Posted November 5, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) Bug or no bug, issue is: *1/15th of a second *burst mode *manual *every few frames there is one at 1/100th or 1/30th. note I always use MANUAL as do flash dragging. I had few drinks but not too many. This issue may have happened before, but yesterday I got evidence of this in pretty much all the bursts sequences I have used. It seems erratic in the frequency and in the shutter speed, perhaps is this to do with the time left over from previous shot in the sequence or to accommodate the whole mess of the shutter going up and down? i.e. even if the frame per second of the camera are low, perhaps the actual shutter dance is twice as fast so 1/15th means 1/30th for the shutter down.up.down.up. which would suggest the fps are limited really by that rather than the pipeline of the sensor and maestro... in any case, if you use burst mode and find some underexposed shots it may well be because of this. G. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 5, 2022 Posted November 5, 2022 Hi geotrupede, Take a look here [bug] shutter speed in burst mode. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Photoworks Posted November 5, 2022 Share #2 Posted November 5, 2022 I just did a bust of 36 images ( 1 Roll of Film ) and all the images where exposed to 1/15 just fine... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 5, 2022 Share #3 Posted November 5, 2022 If shutter speed has been set manually, i.e. with the shutter speed dial, i cannot figure out how it can be overridden by the camera unless something escapes me... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted November 6, 2022 Author Share #4 Posted November 6, 2022 will try again and if it happens then it is probably an issue with my unit Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted November 6, 2022 Share #5 Posted November 6, 2022 Can you tell if the shutter speed is actually wrong, or just recorded wrong in metadata? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 6, 2022 Share #6 Posted November 6, 2022 (edited) • Edited November 6, 2022 by lct Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripH Posted November 6, 2022 Share #7 Posted November 6, 2022 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 21 hours ago, lct said: If shutter speed has been set manually, i.e. with the shutter speed dial, i cannot figure out how it can be overridden by the camera unless something escapes me... I lack direct knowledge re M11 firmware implementation, but suspect that even if the camera is in ‘manual’ mode, it’s still fly-by-wire. In other words, the controls act as input parameters to the firmware and the firmware sets the physical shutter speed. So, if there was some sort of firmware hiccup, setting 1/15 on the dial could result in something other than that during exposure… 5 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said: Can you tell if the shutter speed is actually wrong, or just recorded wrong in metadata? This is an excellent point. If it was a burst, then the diference beteen 1/15 and 1/100 should be noticable... Assuming fly-by-wire, some other parameters may be involved. Not that they should be mind you. But hay, it's software.... How was ISO set? What are the ISO limits? (M-ISO, A-ISO) What is the shutter speed limit (factory 1/4f)? Flash? Lens coding? I've never seen a published decision tree of setting priority... The manual is a bit ambigious on the point: "In the focal length-specific settings, the camera will only switch to a higher sensitivity if the shutter speed would fall below the set threshold due to low light; for example with a 50 mm lens at speeds slower than 1⁄60 s at 1/f s , 1⁄125 s at 1/(2f) s or 1⁄250 s at 1/(4f) s . Separate settings are available for flash photography." Notation at bottom of page: This function requires the use of encoded lenses or the setting of the lens type used in the menu Page 100 - English Language PDF. If you hit ISO and/or shutter speed limits simultaniously, which wins? If you use an actual shutter speed value and not one of the focal-length settings, what happens? Unencoded lens, what happens? Etc.... The flash section of the PDF is equally ambigious. I listened to a podcast discussion where it was 'assumed' that shutter speed wins, but I've never seen that published. I assume that as well, but there are a lot of boundry cases and a published decision tree in the manual would have been helpful. 2c, h Edited November 6, 2022 by TripH 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 6, 2022 Share #8 Posted November 6, 2022 1 hour ago, TripH said: I lack direct knowledge re M11 firmware implementation, but suspect that even if the camera is in ‘manual’ mode, it’s still fly-by-wire. In other words, the controls act as input parameters to the firmware and the firmware sets the physical shutter speed. So, if there was some sort of firmware hiccup, setting 1/15 on the dial could result in something other than that during exposure… In my experience the camera never overrides manual settings through iso or shutter speed dials but i may be wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripH Posted November 6, 2022 Share #9 Posted November 6, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, lct said: In my experience the camera never overrides manual settings through iso or shutter speed dials but i may be wrong. Agreed, [IMHO] a manual dial setting should override the auto logic -- unless there is a very good reason not to... Or a bug in the code... The OP mentions a ‘burst’. Assuming that's ‘continuous high’ drive mode. On page 116, there is a list of caveats for using the continuous drive modes – e.g., not using preview mode and the like. So, I’m ‘assuming’ the OP is following the guidelines outlined in the manual for continuous drive shooting. BTW: how is the manual shutter speed being set? on the dial, through the touch screen, etc. Can you assign shutter speed to a user assigned function button like the scroll wheel? Don't remember... If the condition is repeatable with defined parameters, then the devs can work the issue. For instance, how many frames are correctly captured before the error, in what format (DNG, JPG), how big (L, M, S), where are they stored (internal, SD, both), etc. Could be something as simple as the firmware shitting itself when outrunning the buffer… I had a problem like this with an a Canon... Was fixed eventually, but it took about a year to do it... Many moons ago, I did firmware, but not cameras... So it's all a bit of a guess... 2c, h Edited November 6, 2022 by TripH Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 6, 2022 Share #10 Posted November 6, 2022 17 minutes ago, TripH said: BTW: how is the manual shutter speed being set? on the dial, through the touch screen, etc. On the dial. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripH Posted November 6, 2022 Share #11 Posted November 6, 2022 (edited) Figured as much, but had to ask... Just checked the manual and you can only set it off the screen and/or user preset for long exposures (B/T)... But it's all software, so strange things can happen... I'm interested now, so I'll play with continuous drive mode. See if I can recreate the problem... I did find a new bug today -- I got the thing stuck in 'play' mode, but it wasn't reading the images from the SD card. The camera was frozen in that mode. Had to remove the battery to spring it. The camera wan't 'dead' like the standby-mode bug, but just 'stuck' in play mode without the actual images being displayed -- had the count from the card, but wouldn't display any images, and not allow me to exit play mode... So in a way, it was 'frozen' -- but frozen to a single function... There was a firmware bug reporting area for the M10... Anyone start something similar for the M11? h Edited November 6, 2022 by TripH Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 6, 2022 Share #12 Posted November 6, 2022 No list i'm aware sorry of but i'm not much interested as i got only one problem with a UHS-II card (Sony Tough) so far. The camera works fine with UHS-I Sandisk cards since then. Other colleagues here seem to be less lucky. A further firmware update should fix some teething issues expectedly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted November 6, 2022 Author Share #13 Posted November 6, 2022 (edited) high speed burst mechanical shutter no flash no lens coding manual exposure manual iso visoflex with the live view on 1/15th set in the dial saved to card dng low res 18MP etc. most pics are 1/15th as set but some 1/100th and obviously underexposed. and that is how I realised this, by finding darker frames within the same sequence which is certainly not me changing the shutter speed and then putting it back on within a burst... anyway, seems it could be a bug / limitation of the up/down/up/down shutter movement in combination with live view, etc. provided the camera does not break I am fine with the bug, G> Edited November 6, 2022 by geotrupede Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 6, 2022 Share #14 Posted November 6, 2022 15 minutes ago, geotrupede said: so high speed manual exposure manual iso visoflex with the live view on 1/15th set in the dial most pics are 1/15th as set but some 1/100th and obviously underexposed Just tried the same with a UHS-I card with no problem. What card were you using if any? Just curious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripH Posted November 6, 2022 Share #15 Posted November 6, 2022 I tried several different combinations of manual shutter speed and ISO settings via dial. LiveView on/off. I can't duplicate the failure. I shot enough continuous-high sequences to overflow the buffer and the camera does 'studder' to flush, but I would expect that. I tried writing to internal memory and SD (USHII-V90), DNG and JPEG. Tried a bunch of combinations, but can't get it to fail. For all my setups, the exposures and metadata are OK. However, I don't have a visoflex, so I can't duplicate your setup eactly. Can you repeat the setup and get the same failure? If you remove the visoflex -- does the problem go away? h 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted November 6, 2022 Author Share #16 Posted November 6, 2022 card is: extreme pro 170MB 64GB I have just set the camera precisely as the other evening and took bursts and all fine here, was not able to get the same issue. I will keep an eye on this but do not want to take 10000 pictures of the wall until the whole thing breaks, so would also suggest you did not. If it happens again I will post here. G> Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 6, 2022 Share #17 Posted November 6, 2022 19 minutes ago, geotrupede said: card is: extreme pro 170MB 64GB UHS-I or UHS-II? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted November 6, 2022 Author Share #18 Posted November 6, 2022 type 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 6, 2022 Share #19 Posted November 6, 2022 9 minutes ago, geotrupede said: type 1 Same as mine. I would ask Leica what to do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted November 6, 2022 Author Share #20 Posted November 6, 2022 Just wrote to the info email to see what they think, also shared one of the sequences. Unfortunately I cannot share these openly but I have now checked once more and it happened in 3 of these sequences. The position of the odd frames is erratic, towards the end or at the beginning of a sequence or twice in a sequence. All was set to manual so it is a mystery. Incidentally a week ago or so I had a frame 'no valid picture' recorded. Maybe it is the SD card, maybe time to get a new one or do a hard format... G> Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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