Help identifying my Leica, please. (Photo included)

[charlesnic]

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Hi,

New to the forum and wondering if someone can help me idenitfy the model of my Leica III (please see photo)? I've searched the model number and it's coming up with a Leica III made in 1936. After downloading an online manual for the mentioned camera, I've noticed that (strangely - to me) it doesnt have a 1/1000th speed on the dial.

I can't seem to find any Leica II or III models with this dial.

Hope someone can help.

Cheers

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[Pyrogallol]

Welcome to the forum.

The books say it is a model 111 from 1936. The 1000th shutter speed did not come in until the model 111a.

[charlesnic]

22 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

Welcome to the forum.

The books say it is a model 111 from 1936. The 1000th shutter speed did not come in until the model 111a.

Thanks for the reply - thats exactly what I was wondering. Is that the only difference between them? That and the slower dial 20-1?

[pop]

Your camera has been modified. The flash socket in the middle of the company logo is not original.

[a.noctilux]

Link to III, ACHOO CHROM

IIIa with 1/1000

[Anbaric]

54 minutes ago, charlesnic said:

Thanks for the reply - thats exactly what I was wondering. Is that the only difference between them? That and the slower dial 20-1?

Some of the later manuals explain the differences between the models, e.g. see this IIIc manual, p44-47:

https://www.cameramanuals.org/leica_pdf/leica_iiic_02.pdf

All the III series models have the slow speed dial, which the II series do not. The original II also lacked the eyepiece adjuster and strap lugs.

The flash sync socket on your III, as mentioned above, is a third party modification (one of many different styles, depending on the workshop). Leica themselves could add flash sync to the earlier cameras after the release of the IIIf, but they did it IIIf-style, with a socket on the back of the top plate and a sync dial under the shutter speed dial.

If you're going to use it, make sure you trim the film leader to the profile shown in the manual, which is longer and thinner than is standard today. This is easy to do with a small pair of scissors (make sure you cut between rather than across sprocket holes, and it's best to round off the corner). I leave about 23 sprocket holes 'unpaired'. Using uncut film risks jamming the mechanism (you'll see various tricks to avoid trimming that involve taking off the lens every time you load a film and messing around with business cards and an open shutter - I think trimming is safer and easier, and if you prepare a few films before you go out, loading will be quicker in the field).

Edited November 1, 2022 by Anbaric

[a.noctilux]

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2 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

Leica themselves could add flash sync to the earlier cameras after the release of the IIIf, but they did it IIIf-style, with a socket on the back of the top plate and a sync dial under the shutter speed dial.

Very good explanations.

I use one of those  III transformed in IIIa/IIIf 1/1000 and flash sync with sync dial and sync socket at same place as IIIf.

[alan mcfall]

Does it have strap lugs?  Band I does not list it as a II or III or IIIa. It could possibly be a II that was upgraded to a III.Laney  does list it as a III, so that is probably correct. If it doesn't have strap lugs it might be worth asking Leica if it ever went through the upgrade/repair shop.

Edited November 1, 2022 by alan mcfall

[earleygallery]

That flash sync certainly wasn't Leicas work!

[charlesnic]

4 hours ago, Anbaric said:

Some of the later manuals explain the differences between the models, e.g. see this IIIc manual, p44-47:

https://www.cameramanuals.org/leica_pdf/leica_iiic_02.pdf

All the III series models have the slow speed dial, which the II series do not. The original II also lacked the eyepiece adjuster and strap lugs.

The flash sync socket on your III, as mentioned above, is a third party modification (one of many different styles, depending on the workshop). Leica themselves could add flash sync to the earlier cameras after the release of the IIIf, but they did it IIIf-style, with a socket on the back of the top plate and a sync dial under the shutter speed dial.

If you're going to use it, make sure you trim the film leader to the profile shown in the manual, which is longer and thinner than is standard today. This is easy to do with a small pair of scissors (make sure you cut between rather than across sprocket holes, and it's best to round off the corner). I leave about 23 sprocket holes 'unpaired'. Using uncut film risks jamming the mechanism (you'll see various tricks to avoid trimming that involve taking off the lens every time you load a film and messing around with business cards and an open shutter - I think trimming is safer and easier, and if you prepare a few films before you go out, loading will be quicker in the field).

Hey, 

Some great information from you, thanks for taking the time to write all that out. I can confirm that mine does have the strap lugs so I'm guessing its definitely a III. I think I'll contact Leica directly to see if they have any info on my camera. Maybe someone who owned it (once upon a time) upgrade/modified the flash?? 

Thanks for letting me know about trimming the film. I've only loaded one roll in it so far and used a template trimmer. The guy I purchased it from was pretty informative too. You Leica users are ace!!!!

Thanks again for helping. 

[charlesnic]

2 hours ago, alan mcfall said:

Does it have strap lugs?  Band I does not list it as a II or III or IIIa. It could possibly be a II that was upgraded to a III.Laney  does list it as a III, so that is probably correct. If it doesn't have strap lugs it might be worth asking Leica if it ever went through the upgrade/repair shop.

Hey,

Thanks for getting back to me. Yes, it does have the lugs. I think I'll take your advice and get in touch with Leica to see if they've ever had it in their workshop? 

Is it common for them not to go above 1/500?

Cheers. 

[charlesnic]

1 hour ago, earleygallery said:

That flash sync certainly wasn't Leicas work!

Was it not? Maybe someone that once owned it.

It's been serviced and had a CLA so all in good working order. Although I don't think it's been flash tested - but I'm not too fussed for that just yet. Just pleased to shoot with it and own one. 

[pippy]

23 minutes ago, charlesnic said:

...Is it common for them not to go above 1/500?...

As Pyrogallol mentioned in post #2 the 1/1000 top speed was first introduced with the release of the Leica IIIa. The Leica III - which is what you have - always had 1/500 as its top speed.

Philip.

[Anbaric]

As far as I know, every Leica III only goes to 1/500. The slightly later IIIa and all subsequent III-series variants (IIIb, IIIc, IIId, IIIf, IIIg) go to 1/1000, but you don't have one of those. If you email info@leica-camera.com they might be able to tell you a little about the camera (e.g. the delivery date and destination city). They won't be able to tell you about the flash sync, as that isn't their work. They might also be able to tell you if it was otherwise upgraded from a lower spec model, but I think this one has always been a III and the third party flash sync is the only modification. As Alan suggests, there is more than one list of serial numbers (and probably none of them are 100% correct), but this one has it as a III, part of a batch of 100 from 1936:

https://www.cameraquest.com/ltmnum.htm

 

[charlesnic]

After receiving help and information from you guys, reading various websites, manuals and Leica focused blogs, I am now 99.9% sure my camera is a Leica III model F - manufactured in 1936 which has then had the flash sync added/modified by a previous owner.

If anyone has any tips for me whilst using this camera, please feel free to fire away and leave a comment/reply.

Thanks again for your help,

Charles

[charlesnic]

5 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

As far as I know, every Leica III only goes to 1/500. The slightly later IIIa and all subsequent III-series variants (IIIb, IIIc, IIId, IIIf, IIIg) go to 1/1000, but you don't have one of those. If you email info@leica-camera.com they might be able to tell you a little about the camera (e.g. the delivery date and destination city). They won't be able to tell you about the flash sync, as that isn't their work. They might also be able to tell you if it was otherwise upgraded from a lower spec model, but I think this one has always been a III and the third party flash sync is the only modification. As Alan suggests, there is more than one list of serial numbers (and probably none of them are 100% correct), but this one has it as a III, part of a batch of 100 from 1936:

https://www.cameraquest.com/ltmnum.htm

 

Amazing, thanks for the email -ill get onto them and let you know what they say.

Thanks 👍

[charlesnic]

13 minutes ago, pippy said:

As Pyrogallol mentioned in post #2 the 1/1000 top speed was first introduced with the release of the Leica IIIa. The Leica III - which is what you have - always had 1/500 as its top speed.

Philip.

Hi Pippy,

Thanks for confirming. I've now emailed Leica and will post their response on here in due course.

I believe it is a Leica III model F.. but we will see. 

Thanks again Pippy 

[Anbaric]

Incidentally, sometimes these third party flash syncs work, sometimes not. As it's not an original feature, or one added by Leitz themselves, a service technician might regard the added internal bits as more trouble than they are worth and disconnect or remove them. I have a IIIa myself with a third party sync socket on the front that I've never actually atempted to use...

[earleygallery]

Your camera looks in nice condition. You can download a user manual for the llla here https://www.butkus.org/chinon/leica/leica_iiia/leica_iiia.htm

I know it's not the same camera but much of the instructions will apply to the lll - note you have to trim the film leader to load it, so the film doesn't foul up with the sprockets near the top of the camera when you load the film.

Only set the shutter speed after you have wound on/cocked the shutter.

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[charlesnic]

35 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

Incidentally, sometimes these third party flash syncs work, sometimes not. As it's not an original feature, or one added by Leitz themselves, a service technician might regard the added internal bits as more trouble than they are worth and disconnect or remove them. I have a IIIa myself with a third party sync socket on the front that I've never actually atempted to use...

That's useful to know. I think I'll leave mine without the flash option for now.